85 URQ Joins
Hi, my name's Paul Eddleston and I finally got round to introducung myself to this group. I recently took delivery of a beautiful 85 quattro that was previously owned by an Audi friend. I thoiught I'd start a journal-like thread about it and post some pictures
I know a few members on this forum already but some of you may know me from by business venture: Team Illuminata Motorsport, also known as TIM but not to be confused with the URQ owner Tim in the UP of Michigan. http://www.teamilluminata.com/
I grew up in England watching Rallying on TV but really got into the sport around the time the Group B monsters were arriving so you can imagine why I'm here now and why I'm so excited to finally have my quattro. I race a Subaru in RallyCross and autocross and do some track days too and I also crew at rallies for various teams if I'm not in the vendor area flogging our products.
Hope to see you and your cars at some events soon.
So here is what I know about the car:
"One of the best examples of the classic ur quattro available. Very rare Canadian car. Original Tornado Red paint with black leather interior. 1 of only 17 quattros imported to Canada in 1985! Desirable and rare non-sunroof version. 167,000 KM. Clear Michigan title. Retains original metric instruments - I did not convert anything when I imported this car to the USA.
Over the course of the past 3 years, this car has been totally sorted out by Phil at Auto Europe in Birmingham. Phil was an Audi mechanic back when these cars were brand new. I basically gave him permission to check and correct anything that needed attention. The car was great when I bought it, but it's even better now! New hard fuel lines, clutch and slave cylinders, hydraulic bomb, alternator, starter, water pump, timing belt. tires, battery, master cylinder, rear differential bushing, center driveshaft bearing, etc., etc. The car has a modified head and a modified ECU to allow use of the Euro wastegate spring. A joy to drive. This must be what it was like to drive one of these cars brand new. No rattles or squeaks. Strong performer."
Certainly couldn't take issue with any of that and I've known Curt for a few years as a customer at my shop and when I worked at Auto Europe. I was just starting to think about buying a classic when this showed up. I thought I might import an Opel Manta from Europe. That's the car I had when I moved to the US around 20 years ago. I thought it was time to get one back. But then I saw this and it was obvious this was the car I should have. I grew up watching Group B rally in the forests in England and the quattro has always been my favorite Group B monster. Just the noise alone is enough to get my heart racing. Indeed, as I like to tell people, this car is why I now own a motorsports business and race RallyCross, autocross etc. Plus, it would be good that the car stay in Michigan where Curt could keep an eye on it.
Iíve had the car here for a couple of weeks now and driven it a couple of times. My goals for the car are to keep it in its original condition while fixing some of its issues and not-quite-original features. My list is already long but does not reflect the condition of the car but my mental condition of list making and nit-picking. Here are the highlights of what needs attention IMHO:
Restore leather seats
Hot starting issues
Small dent in hood
Should it have Center console?
How much clutch is left?
Passenger door lock inoperative
Driverís window seal loose
Handbrake boot fits poorly
Fuel leak smell
Passenger window sticks at 2Ē drop
Pass seat adjuster loose
Vent broken center
Passenger door pocket coming away
Rear diff damp-reseal
Right rear wheel creaks
Gearbox play, mounts?
Rust spots, leading edge of hood, and fender in engine bay
Door bars missing
A/C removed engine bay, replace
Trunk carpet screws missing
Engine under tray missing right side
Radio too new and blingy
Upper front strut mounts loose
Rear brake lines rusty
Front ball joints
Lower control arm bushings iffy
Left front cv boot getting brittle
Volts-volt and oil temp meters behave oddly
Door carpet coming away
Non-original steering wheel
Trunk strut inoperative.
Key fob light
Speaker cover loose
I might need help with some of these. Prepare yourselves for many questions. Obviously some of these are urgent and necessary, others trivial nit-picking but you canít beat having a list. Iím sure it will grow rather than shrink even if I do check some off.
I still find it immensely ironic that, considering that Iím so into rally, have a rally related business and love to drive sideways that I bought a car that I can neither drive in the snow or on the loose. I guess Iíll have to limit my fun to wet roundabouts, the three or four that exist in SE Michigan. I may do the odd autocross in it or maybe a track day. Do they have track days for classics? I already took it round Waterford Hills track at the recent track day but only during the parade laps at lunchtime. Twas quite fun. Probably, this is what Iíll do most with the car. Just take it to local motorsport events and shows so people can enjoy seeing it. I am going to slap some BRAID wheels on it and a discreet windshield banner in white ďBRAIDUSA.comĒ though as it has to earn itís keep somehow.
These are the wheels that are on a boat in the Atlantic right now. What do you think?
I chose them because they are very reminiscent of the works wheels used on the S1, at least in my opinion. I ordered them in the same specs as the originals. Iíll use the Kumho 225/50-15 tires that came on the OE Ronals. Curt also gave me a set of BFG 215/50-15 which was the OE size but Iím not sure what to do with those yet.
Hopefully Iíll remember to update this page with news of the car's development and outings. Meanwhile, if you have any questions or suggestions let me know. Iím all ears, as some of you already know.
My friend, this is a dream come true, enjoy.
It's a nice dream.
Beautiful car, I've seen that one around before...always lovely.
You have quite an extensive list of to-do's
You may already well know this....
The lamps are yes "incorrect" but are correct for all of the Quattros everywhere else on the planet besides North America.
If you're going to try to go with the stock lamps for an '85, best of luck finding a set in good condition. They are extremely rare as they only came on North American '85's...and the light output from the stock units is quite horrible compared to the H1/H4's you currently have.
Would you mind sharing the last 4 numbers of your VIN? I like to keep track of other '85's out there, to see if any are close in build # to my car.
..ohh..and the wipers are always slow on these cars!!!
And there is no center console past the shifter...just carpet where the e-brake lever is.
The center vent can be found on any 85-87 Audi 4000, or Coupe. Dirt cheap.
Thanks Sepp. I'll PM the VIN to you later. Don't seem to have it here.
Originally Posted by Sepp
Good to know about the wipers. I've been told one can "rebuild" them. The suggestion being that the grease gets old in there somewhere. Know anything about that? I learned about the center console from another owner. My 1/18 '85 has one but apparantly that model is not so accurate. Does the vent come out easily or is it a full dash removal exercise? I don't think I want to replace the headlamps. I agree that the originals are not as good and look ugly but it would be nice to have a set in case they become an asset for the car one day.
So where can I find out information on your car?
My new BRAID wheels come in on Monday along with a couple of hundred others.
I'm not sure what tires to put on them. Currently I have some Kumho AST 225/50-15 on the original Ronal aloys and a set of unmounted BFG in the original size of 215/50-15. The easiest thing to do would be to put the BFG on the new wheels then I'd at least have two working sets available. The "proper" thing to do might be to put the 225 on the BRAIDs and the 215 on the Audi wheels for "originallty's" sake. However, both sets of tires are going to age out before they wear out so one set is just going to be sat there wasting away. Perhaps I should get rid of one set but which. 215/50-15 are quite hard to find now but I like the look of the wider 225.
What to do?
Mine are slow, but not so much that it's a problem vision-wise..even up here in the PNW.
Originally Posted by team illuminata
The grease makes sense. You can confirm proper voltage to the motor to make sure...
"85's don't have the wiring issues the earlier cars have, but it doesn't hurt to check.
With the vents, (working from memory here) there's 4 clips that hold it onto the dashboard, and it slips right over the ducting. So, no need for a dash pull, but it's a bit challenging getting the piece out. I usually pop one side out, and work the other side, as I only have two hands.
If you have a replacement vent on hand, and your sure it's the correct piece, you can pop out the grilles with some pliers(on the broken unit), and that will give you better access to the retaining clips.
And just the opposite of you, my car is US Spec, and is currently in Canada!!
I'm still awaiting enough $$, and time to get it shipped across the continent.
I was doing a restoration (the 2nd), and was transferred across country super last minuet....so it's far from pretty.
..if you're smelling gas in the cabin, it could be two things that I've already BTDT.
First if it smells like gas in your trunk, you can check the fuel tank vent hose.
Its a rubber hose, and has a cloth covering. The rubber is 26 years old ,and mine had some very small cracks in it.
I easily found a replacement at the local auto parts store.
Here's a picture of where it is.
You'll have to pull out all of the carpeting, and side panels in the trunk to access the fuel tank.
Please excuse the shoddy photoshop....but you get my point.
If you get a strong gas smell with the windows down, you might have a disconnected hose that runs to your charcoal canister, located underneath the passenger front fender.
Again, the hoses are rubber, and tend to crack at the connection point..and easily pull off over the years.
The car in the pic is stripped down, to show the exact location.
You'll best need to jack the car up, and remove the tire to gain proper access.
There should be plenty of slack in the hose to trim a bit off, and re-connect.
Thanks man. I did look at that hose briefly and it seems awefully soft. Can you still buy the riginal replacement? I'm trying to keep the car as original as possible.
I'll look up the part number...you never know what's avail. from Audi these days.
Sometimes they surprise me.
if not, you can still locate the fabric covered hose from a specialized vendor.
please disregard this post in its previous state.
And must sound really good running it around inside that building.
It sounds good anywhere but bridges, tunnels and industrial buildings are where it excels.
Originally Posted by team illuminata
I totally agree!
..and not to hijack your thread, but your car, with the country of origin sticker where it is gives me flash backs of my car when it was red!
Nice. What color is it now? That looks just like my car!
I thought the "D" stood for "Detroit" ! ;)
Yes! Detroit! :laugh:
It originally was Graphite metallic. And I did a quickie resto on it, and converted it over to T-red..that was supposed to be just a 2 year paint job, which stayed on the car for 8 years!
Right now, it's white (to keep it from flash rusting) and plans are to do a bare metal respray in Oceanic Blue...
Well the wheels finally came in and I immediately slapped some tires on them and bolted them on the car. What do you think?
Then I took it out to the lake for Memorial Day.
In case you're curious the wheels are BRAID Serie 6 R 3 piece, 15x8 with 225/50-15 Kumho tires.
Sorry chaps, it's been a while since I have had chance to update this thread. I'd like to think that since putting the BRAID wheels on the car our sales have gone through the roof and I have just been too busy fulfilling orders to post. Well, that's only half the case, I've also been kept busy keeping cars on the road. None of my four cars, including this one, have been behaving themselves so far this summer but at least it gives me plenty to write about here. So what's been going on? Well:
The first hiccup of the season became apparant when the car became hard to start. I'd noticed lately I'd had to turn the key a little more "aggresively" sometimes but then it became impossible to get the car to turn over at all. Thankfully it did this at the shop and not 1000 miles from home. It was clear contact was not being made in the ignition switch and all kinds of horrors about getting a new one and taking apart the steering column went through my mind. As it turned out it was surprisingly simple to sort out on both fronts. First off, my local O'rielly's had the switch on the shelf. God knows why but bless their little Irish souls non the less. Now, to put it in. I approached with trepidation but needn't have. AllData give pretty explicit instructions.
Remove the steering wheel, column shround and indicator stalks. Then pry off the spring washer that holds on the spring and you are left with this:
Then you remove that pinch bolt and the ignition switch housing slides up the column and lands on your bench:
Just remove that small phillips head screw to relaese the switch and pop in the new one. Needless to say, assembly is the reverse of disassembly but getting the spring wash in place was a little tricky. I used a 19mm impact socket and a hammer to drive it home. You don't need a lot of force, probably because you are supossed to use a new washer but once the steering wheel is back on it can't go anywhere.
Job done. Car's good for the summer but maybe I should just change the oil first. How hard could it be?
So I put the car on lift and look where the oil filter should be and bloody hell, there's two of the buggers! I was so stunned I forgot to take a picture! So off to the store to find a second filter. Apparantly it's for the turbo. Why ddin't you guys tell me about this? Well, just before taking off I decide to have a look around under there and WTF is that all over my nice new BRAID wheel?
CV grease. That's what.
Oh man. Ah well. new axle, 20 minutes of a job. How hard could it be. Well, I couldn't find an axle but I did find a CV boot. No, not at O'rielly's this time but my friends at Auto Europe hooked me up with one from Worldpac. Not OE but something appropriately German. They even slapped it on for me once I got the axle out which was a bit of a trial due to the lack of space to manouver it around.
Undo these at the tranny end
Take of the brakes and axle nut
then realise there's not enough room for the axle to slide out of the wheel bearing.
Have a cup of tea and then get creative with the jack.
Voila. Off to Auto Europe with you.
Strip the old boot. Remove the C clip and hit it with a BFG, gently of course.
Put on new boot. Run back to shop. Forget to take photo. Installation was the reverse and simple but being in there did inspire me to take on refurbishing the front suspension. So went on a quest for upper strut mounts, anti roll bar bushings, lower ball joints and even some strut inserts.
Drove the car home that night to celebrate. Look, it even made it. But there is a reason it is on the street and not up the driveway.
More on that later. I need a rest.
The oil line going from the oil filter to the oil cooler let go;)
Originally Posted by team illuminata
Haha. nice guess. Something totally unrelated though a common issue, apparantly.
Originally Posted by Quattro Krant
No. shift linkage bushing disintegrated. I can only find 3rd and 4th. I have two new bushings: an OE and a 034 Motorsports but it looks real tight in there so I may just take it in. I can still get 1st and 2nd when it's cold but reverse is MIA.
So, to continue the saga, the reason the car was sitting on the street instead of in my driveway was that I couldn't get reverse, nor, for that matter, 1st or 2nd! It was allright when I left the shop but by the time I was nearing home, about 20 minutes, 1st became 3rd and I kept stalling at the lights 'cause it don't like to set off in 3rd. Shift lever was feeling a bit woolie too.
I nursed it back to my shop the next day, got it on the lift and found the shifter bushing, #27 in the picture below, had distintergrated. This must have hapenned gradually over a number of years and I guess, with the elevated temperatures lately, it just crossed the threshold of being able to move the selector shaft enough to find the outermost gears. Once I fix this it should feel like a short shifter compared with the long throw that I thought was normal.
The bushing is, of course, no longer available but I found out that 034 Motorsport are making them and I also picked up an OE one from a guy on ebay UK along with some other goodies (see below). Now I have a lifetime's supply.
Apparantly, the short rod, #35 often fails and they are NLA too. Mine seems fine thankfully. The ball on the top of #33 can come loose too but again, mine seems good. It was a little tight in there above the tranny and after finding water in my basement last night I said "Sod this" and booked it in at Auto Europe. As much as I like to work on my cars I just don't have time to tackle this fiddly job with all the other stuff crumbling around me right now. Thank god my Jeep's fixed; and the Subaru moves under its own power too now, sort of.
Some stuff I dd take care of myself though:
I managed to get a gas strut for the trunk. Apparantly it needs two to support the weight of the trunk and that huge spolier and if you only have one like I had it will crash down on your bonce while you are deep in conversation with your spare tire. OUCH!. Couldn't find an OE one at a decent price so went with a Stabilus to match the other side. So much nicer than the stick I was using. Much more civilised.
I've been trying to track down a fuel smell for some time now. It was often there but seemed to be worse with the windows open and after taking some corners, particularly left handers. It was worse the more fuel was in the tank too, I think. Initially I suspected the long breather pipe that goes from roughly the middle of the tank to the filler neck. The original one was very soft so I thought it might be sweating if not actually leaking. I replaced it with a bit of basic hose temporarily and thought it made a bit of a difference but later realised that might have been wishful thinking. I may yet put the original hose back on.
Later I discovered that the gas cap was getting wet with fuel after spirited drives so I replaced the fuel cap gasket with an OE one from the dealer. So far (not very far actually) so good. Fingers crossed. No picture; it's a round piece of rubber with a big hole in the middle. Use your imagination.
When I initially test drove the car the passenger side window stopped working. Well, not completely. It would just go down a couple of inches, make a horrible grinding noise and stop. Fortunately it decided to go back up so I bought the car anyway. So I finally got a chance to get inside the door motivated by the increasing temperatures and lack of air conditioning in the car. Door card came off easily once I located all the screws and clips (didn't braek any either :) )
I was happy to find that the wire that pulls the window mechanism had come derailed from the bottom pulley and with a bit of effort I managed to get it back on there. It works now but does make some funny noises sometimes. The same noises the driver's side makes so I figured they are factory. Job done!
While I was in there I took the opportunity to have a look at the door lock mechanism. The button was going up and down when I operated the driver's side lock but the key was doing nothing in the passenger side, not that one ever uses the key in that side. It did cross my mind that perhaps it was a design feature then I realised, why would they have a lock. Anyway, brain back in gear it soon became apparant that the little plastic ear on the back of the lock had become detached from its actuator rod. Two minutes and a skimmed knucle later it was back on and working as Audi intended all along. Look:
While messing around in the cabin with the various knobs and switches I found out that my blower fan goes to ELEVEN. Well, it goes to four but that's amazing as the the panel only indicates 3. It works too; fan goes even faster! I can't for the life of me figure out why the switch goes to 4 while the panel only goes to 3. What were they drinking in Ingoldstat in the mid-eighties?
I put back the undertray that giudes air to the intercooler. It came with the car but not actually attched to it. I had to do a bit of rally-rigging with some zip ties as it's missing a couple of screw holes now.
Part of my ebay UK haul was a pair of new sun visor clips in more or less the original color. A snap to swap out but they totally transform the car. Handles as if on rails. OK, they hardly made any difference, even to the visors, but it feels good to have replaced more broken stuff.
More UK parts: dash vents, middle and sides. Only my middle one was broken but it's good to have spares right?
Broken vent. All flippity floppoty:
New vent. All nice and together. You can see the tabs that hold it in place too....
....so I know where to stick my screw driver.
Maybe I should just leave it like this:
Man, that was a lot of venting.
In the category of interesting aside did you know, Wikipedia says "The Illuminati, a Bavarian secret society, was founded in Ingolstadt..." and my business is called Team Illuminata Motorsport. Coincidence? I'm saying nothing. Schtum!
Now, off to Auto Europe with you Stiggy (Hmm. I think I just named my car)
Just got the car back from Auto Europe and it now shifts beautifully :)
Thanks to Kenny who did a great job and worth every penny to let a professional fiddle with it this time. Here's what came out:
26 year old German rubber. Yuk!
Kenny said the short rod #35 was OK but getting a little worn. I should start looking for one but they are NLA of course. Anyone have one or want to make me one?
When I went to pick the car up they had it parked next to a Corrado. Interesting comparison don't you think?
The Corrado almost looks like a next generation quattro more than the one that actually followed it.
Now the shift libkage is sorted I've started thinking about a suspension rebuild. Have all the bushings bought but Kenny also gave me some NEW Bilsteins for the car. They are actually from a later car but might fit. Anyone know?
Also, it looks like my gas cap gasket has solved my fuel smell issues too :)
ohh jeez..the fuel cap issue...
I had the same, but worse. Take a sharp left turn, and the side of the car is wet with gas... :o:o:o:o
New gasket (home made), and good to go!
Originally Posted by team illuminata
you might want to pop that piece off, and check for a date stamp on the backside... your's should look like this!
I won't know if I have a spare one of these from an '85 car, until the fall...if you're looking for a replacement.
I used an OE. What did you make yours out of?
Originally Posted by Sepp
Interesting. Do you think mine was replaced at some time or built like that?
Originally Posted by Sepp
Oh, and how does it "pop off" ? Does one just pry it our with a screw driver or dismantle the console? I intend replacing the radio soon. Maybe that's when this should happen.
the take cap on my car had a thin rubber gasket, that had indents from the years...so I found a similar roll of rubber sheeting (that we use to make gaskets out of at work), and copied the pattern.
With the vent control plate, it's been a few years since I've taken one off.
I do remember is that the lever knobs pull straight off, as well as the fan speed knob.
On the back side (after you remove the plate, there is a plug that goes to the AC rocker switch, and a lamp that is the back light.
It's a tough guess if someone replaced that at a later date....but it looks like it.
The date will be stamped on the back in typical German fashion. stamped in blue are the part numbers, and the build date. Mine 11/84
Yes, I'd like to replace it though it's not a top priority. I rather like the idea that there is a secret "4". I'm probably not going to mess with it unless I have an replacement to hand though.
Originally Posted by Sepp
I think it is quite interesting that as well as the additional speed the ac swicth is reversed and the design of the hot/cold. red/blue bands are different. Oh, and the legend "AIR CONDITIONER" have been added. Nearly missed that one.
hmm...let me double check the part number on this piece.....
I found it in my spares box. It might be from a vw...
I bought an OE steering wheel off eBay UK. Seller said it was in great condition and he was not wrong. I like the Audi Sport one that came with the car but it has always bothered me that it is not original. It's indicator cancel tab was offset too so the left turn signal cancelled too soon and the right too late. Swapping them was easy but you have to pull the cover harder than feels right to get it off. I like that I never need a steering wheel puller on this car :)
I know most of you would prefer the Sport one especially as it's chunky and 14" vs 15" for the OE but I actually kind of prefer the way it drives with the ugly one.
Replacing the steering wheel cured my intermittent horn issue too. I also seem to have fixed the spare tire leak. Well Auto Europe did by remounting it. Gas cap is still leaking despite the new gasket :( maybe I'll try a new cap next.
Of course I had to road test the car with it's new steering wheel so I took it on a tour of local car events. First off was a car show someone gave me a flier for at Cars and Coffee yesterday. Lots of muscle cars and old domestic stuff as you might expect but a few import gems namely a rather nice black Testarossa, a BMW 850 coupe and a 90's Mercedes but I don't know my Mercedes like I should. The quattro would have fit right in there but I'm not sure I'm cut out for car shows. Seems like you park the car then sit next to it for five hours. Sounds boring. Is it?
Next up was a autocross at Belle Isle. A bautiful setting if you ever get the chance. The events are held on the newish cement paddock they poured for the Detroit GP we had a few years ago. I didn't mean to run, the car's not up to it and cones make a mess of paint but I did hope to do a fun run or two at the end by way of a demo as many people said they wanted to hear it run. Alas, it was not to be. Apparantly you had to have run the event to do fun runs so off to the Motor City Mayhem event at the Silverdome in Pontiac just round the corner form our shop.
I didn't know much about this thing except that seemed to involve some drifting and a time attack event along with other crazy stuff. Mayhem is a good word as reports at the autocross were that the previous iteration was a bit chaotic. I got there n time for the drifting and was ushered into the "Display" parking are as I had such a nice car. There were a lot of strange cars there let me tell you but plenty of spectators so maybe we should get involved in this mayhem one day. car was well received especially as the Michigan Gumball rally finished there while I was in attendance so some slightly more normal car people were around.
Then I took the car down Woodward but nobody was out as it was still a little early in the day.
I did discover that I have no brake lights which is a little disconcerting. They are on the same fuse as the horn interestingly but that works. Bulbs are fine too seemingly. Any known issues with these?