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    Thread: Manumatic/Tiptronic shift pattern

    1. Member mx5er's Avatar
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      08-29-2003 08:37 PM #1
      Almost all of them have push forward to change up and pull back to change down. While as far as I know Mazda and BMW have it the other way. Cars with sequential manuals like the BMW SMG and Toyota MR Spyder have it like that too. Daimler Chrysler is another story I find the push forward to change down and pull back to change up more intuitive. I tried to drive a Passat and a Acura TL once in "manual" mode and got sick of it and just put the shifter back into "D".

      In the racing world, like CART, WRC (back when the majority of the cars didn't have paddle shifters, now it's just Skoda and Hyundai), Touring cars etc. have pull back to change up and push forward to change down. So which pattern do you thing it's more natural???


      Modified by mx5er at 4:40 PM 8-29-2003


    2. 08-29-2003 08:40 PM #2
      Well on a real manual transmission you're pulling both up and down for upshifts and the same for downshifts so I don't see how one could be "more intuitive" really.


    3. 08-29-2003 08:40 PM #3
      PRO's use paddle shifters.

    4. 08-29-2003 08:40 PM #4
      i feel the same way. when i got in a passat i was surprised that forward was up. i mean, i can see where they get that, but it just doesn't make sense to someone who's used to watching wrc and the like.

    5. Member mx5er's Avatar
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      08-29-2003 08:43 PM #5
      I wouldn't mind getting a Audi or a VW with the DSG tranny but the shifter pattern is backwards...at least for me So you gotta use the paddles all the time. So I would just skip that option.

    6. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      08-29-2003 08:54 PM #6
      when you are feeling like you are about to get into a collision, your body pushes away from the danger. your feet go out, your arms go out, and your body goes back. when you are trying to streamline yourself to run faster, your head tilts forward and your arms go back.

      the natural motion your body wants to do is:
      "move away/slow down = push hands or arms forward"
      "speed up/get closer = pull back"

      so... push forward to downshift and pull back to upshift.

      it's intuitive

      obin

      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    7. Member SmokinDiesel's Avatar
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      08-29-2003 10:49 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by Obin Robinson »
      when you are feeling like you are about to get into a collision, your body pushes away from the danger. your feet go out, your arms go out, and your body goes back. when you are trying to streamline yourself to run faster, your head tilts forward and your arms go back.

      the natural motion your body wants to do is:
      "move away/slow down = push hands or arms forward"
      "speed up/get closer = pull back"

      so... push forward to downshift and pull back to upshift.

      it's intuitive

      obin

      I never really thought of it that way. I just assumed that when you accelerate a car (esp a race car) that it would be easier to pull back the gear lever to change UP a gear and work with the acceleration force (force that pushes you into your seat) than against. Similiarily when your stopping its easier to work with the decleration forces than against.

      That's probably not the most precise way of saying it, but your a smart one Obin, you know what i mean.


    8. 08-29-2003 11:00 PM #8
      steptronic pulls back

    9. 08-30-2003 01:55 AM #9
      Quote, originally posted by mattsvt »
      Well on a real manual transmission you're pulling both up and down for upshifts and the same for downshifts so I don't see how one could be "more intuitive" really.


    10. Member s-rocc's Avatar
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      08-30-2003 02:03 AM #10
      i prefer the kind that goes both ways, you know the ones with the third pedal.
      this / is / where / your / sweet / mods / go

    11. Geriatric Member ATL_Av8r's Avatar
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      08-30-2003 10:51 AM #11
      Quote, originally posted by s-rocc »
      i prefer the kind that goes both ways

      Never tell a woman that on the first date

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    12. 08-31-2003 07:41 PM #12
      To me pulling back for upshift is more intuitive because it mimics the 1-2 shift in a H-shifter, and 1-2 shift is always the most memorable shift because that's when you spin the wheel, chirp the tire, etc.

      In any case it's not a huge deal because the tiptronic slushboxes are sooooooooo slow to respond. You have plenty of time to correct it if you ask for the wrong gear.


    13. 09-02-2003 01:36 PM #13
      Pushing forward to downshift and pulling back to upshift is more natural because it follows the acceleration vector.

      Pulling back to downshift and pushing forward to upshift is easier and safer for automatic drivers to remember, because it follows the traditional automatic shift pattern, which is used because of the placement of Neutral between Reverse and Drive. You wouldn't want to switch from Neutral to 1, now would you?


    14. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      09-02-2003 01:47 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by climacus »
      To me pulling back for upshift is more intuitive because it mimics the 1-2 shift in a H-shifter, and 1-2 shift is always the most memorable shift because that's when you spin the wheel, chirp the tire, etc.

      my 924 gear pattern had 1st going into 2nd forwards (actually lower left back to slightly right forwards)

      obin

      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    15. 09-02-2003 01:56 PM #15
      Yes, pulling back to upshift is more natural but having driven my wife's Prelude (push forward to upshift) you get used to it very quickly and you don't even notice it after awhile.

      I would imagine that it would get confusing if you owned two cars with opposite shifting patterns. Perhaps the automakers should consider standardizing it.


    16. Member theevilshiftkey's Avatar
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      09-02-2003 02:01 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by amper »
      Pulling back to downshift and pushing forward to upshift is easier and safer for automatic drivers to remember, because it follows the traditional automatic shift pattern, which is used because of the placement of Neutral between Reverse and Drive.

      All of my automatics have been PRNDL. On the floor you would pull back to enter Drive. Did you just type that backwards of am I missing you?

      Anyway, I voted pull back to shift up. Its the only way I've EVER seen a true sequential gearbox work, and that's what they are trying to simulate. Incidentally, since most of those manumatic boxes are electronically controlled it shouldn't be to hard to switch it to match your preferences.

      I always plug in USBs right the first time.

    17. 09-02-2003 02:03 PM #17
      Push forward to change down and pull back to change up.

      1) It feels more intuitive to me because of aircraft controls - you push the wheel forward to nose down and pull back to climb. The same thing is true of ocmputer games etc with the mouse - more people "invert" the mouse than leave it standard, meaning you push it forward to look at your toes, pull back to see the sky. I know this isn't a gearshift/speed thing, but it translates pretty well.

      2) When you accelerate, your body is pulled back into the seat - to go faster, it seems to make more sense to "go with this" and pull the gearstick back, its fighting your own body less - if you tried to push forward, you would be fighting the Gs.

      Dan


    18. Member gtivr4's Avatar
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      09-02-2003 02:05 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by theevilshiftkey »
      Anyway, I voted pull back to shift up. Its the only way I've EVER seen a true sequential gearbox work, and that's what they are trying to simulate.

      They can easily work both ways, its just a matter of adjusting the linkage. At least with the karts I have driven (which would be the extent of my sequential box use).

      It doesn't really matter, so long as you can get used to it. Either way becomes second nature after driving for a short period.

      1990 Miata
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    19. 09-02-2003 02:50 PM #19

      I've gotten used to pushing forward to upshift and pushing back to downshift from driving my A4. I guess I could get used to it the other way around, but boy is it embarrasing when you forget about which way to go and downshift instead of upshifting while trying to do a quick launch.


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