differences from audi 3a short block and vw 2.0 aba shortblock

[16vscirocco]

like the title says im looking at doing a engine transplant on a rabbit first of next year and just curious which is best and what am i looking at spending to do it thanks any info is greatly thanked

[gearhead455]

2.0 ABA has longer rods and the same piston size as a 1.8L, the block is taller and generates lots of torque. The 3A "bubble Block" uses larger pistons, the overall engine height is the same as the 1.8L. This engine is good for more HP at a higher RPM, but it generates less torque than the ABA.

ABA's are easy to find and cheaper, the torque makes it a great street motor.

[kervin]

If I was going to do it again, I think I would do a rebuild before the swap. Since I was doing a rebuild, I would look for a 3A because all the changes I have been making are moving the power band up the RPM range. It would also give you some choices of headers if you wanted to run those again.
So....the ABA swap will be cheaper and faster to do and you more than likely won't need to do a bottom end rebuild. The 3A can be a higher reving engine, but most of what you can find will need a rebuild which takes more time a money before it's ready to drop the hammer.

[16vscirocco]

how much less torque are we talking about enough to really know a difference or are we talking just a little difference i want to make sure i get the right engine.

[gearhead455]

What are you going to use the engine for? Where would you like your power?

ABA is good down low and is a satisfying street motor.

3A is a good candidate for a higher revving race motor. But are harder to find.

What gearbox?

[kervin]

Quote, originally posted by 16vscirocco »

how much less torque are we talking about

That's a good question. Here are the numbers from Volkswagen.org

ABA 115hp@5400 rpm 135 ft/lbs@3200 Motronic
3A 115hp@5400 rpm 122 ft/lbs@3200 CIS-E

In the stock form with the head and engine management system from the factory, the difference is 12 ft/lbs BUT I don't think you plan on doing a full cross flow swap using Motronic so the difference will be less. If you do some head work to a CIS head, that can make the hp numbers higher. So, I would go back to whether you want to do a engine rebuild or not.

[16vscirocco]

ew to 8v im looking to the first of the year getting a rabbit and doing a 2.0 engine swap im looking at the different options i have a crane cam (274) and some interior stuff , i have had nothing but 16v but with three kids and money being a little tighter i need a inexpensive setup and just want something different, im assuming i will have a 4k tranny and im looking into keeping the head from the rabbit of doing a P&P head i hope this makes a little more sense. I m trying to do the homework before hand

[16vscirocco]

so kerven who around here can do a rebuild and how much am i looking at i know i have sourced a audi 3a for 450. i cant remeber how many miles on it i will look at it again

[kervin]

If your goal is to keep cost down, I'd skip on the $450 3A unless it has just been rebuilt. You can do the rebuild yourself or maybe you can talk Sam into helping you. I think that Jason may know someone. I got my ABA bottom end for $350 which seem to be a fair deal these days.

[ABA Scirocco]

Quote, originally posted by gearhead455 »

2.0 ABA has longer rods and the same piston size as a 1.8L, the block is taller and generates lots of torque. The 3A "bubble Block" uses larger pistons, the overall engine height is the same as the 1.8L. This engine is good for more HP at a higher RPM, but it generates less torque than the ABA. ABA's are easy to find and cheaper, the torque makes it a great street motor.

The ABA and 3A BOTH have the 82.5mm bore and 92.8mm stroke giving a displacement of 1984cc. The 3A block is the same height as all other VW inline 4cylinder blocks except the ABA block which is 16mm taller. As a result, the ABA has longer rods. The rod to stroke ratio of the ABA makes it a slightly smoother running engine.

[Peter Tong]

I've had both 3A and ABA in my Cabby. The 3A is more of a torquer, whereas the ABA likes to rev a bit better. Idle is a bit rougher on the 3A. Pistons on the 3A are heavier as well... either are good choices...

If you plan on doing headwork and spinning the thing out then go with the ABA as the rod/stroke ratio is slightly higher...

If you go with the Audi 80 block then make sure you snag the distributor with it...

hope this helps,
Peter T.

[wld101turkey]

I found a 3A long block with dist for 275 with 90K

[darksideofthemn]

i got a 3A with distributor for $36

[RMprotune]

well built ABA will rev higher due to its rod ratio , it will give you higher HP but less torque, matched with the right gear ratios it would be a killer. 3A will develop more torque due to its piston speed ,with the right head and cam combo ,it makes a nice street engine.

[Fox-N-It]

I got my ABA block with 45K miles at waterfest with some extras for $200. For us who own a fox these are about the only 2 motors that we can swap easily.

[I4 Vanagon]

$300 for an ABA shipped in the US http://www.specializedgerman.com Just make sure you ask them for the crank gear and distibutor.

[cheeseland]

how would you install a turbo with an ABA block & a 1.8 head? will the compression be too high?

[Longitudinal]

Quote, originally posted by ABA Scirocco »

The ABA and 3A BOTH have the 82.5mm bore and 92.8mm stroke giving a displacement of 1984cc.

Thank you for saving me the time. There are a few legends about the ABA that just won't die. My favorite is that the ABA gets is extra displacement from longer rods.

This seems a good time to ask. Do all 2.0L engines have the same piston wrist pin height? Not sure if I am using the right term, but I am referring to the measurement from the center of the wrist pin to the top of the piston.

In other words, could pistons be safely swapped from the 3A to the ABA to the 9A? I'm kicking around the idea of a 16V NA 2.0L and would prefer to use the longer rod ABA bottom end.

[2bvwcrzy]

Quote, originally posted by Longitudinal »

Thank you for saving me the time. There are a few legends about the ABA that just won't die. My favorite is that the ABA gets is extra displacement from longer rods. This seems a good time to ask. Do all 2.0L engines have the same piston wrist pin height? Not sure if I am using the right term, but I am referring to the measurement from the center of the wrist pin to the top of the piston. In other words, could pistons be safely swapped from the 3A to the ABA to the 9A? I'm kicking around the idea of a 16V NA 2.0L and would prefer to use the longer rod ABA bottom end.

Lets bring this back from dead. Interested in what folks have done out there.

[MkIIRoc]

What you are referring to is called crown height. It is the measurement from the wrist pin centerline to the piston crown. And no, it will be dependent upon compression ratio.

As far as could you use them, to be honest, i'm ignorant to that fact, so I'll let someone else answer instead of guessing.

I'm running 9a pistons with an 8v head, no touching the head, and the 9a block is basically a 3a block.

[vw_jason79]

Quote, originally posted by ABA Scirocco »

The ABA and 3A BOTH have the 82.5mm bore and 92.8mm stroke giving a displacement of 1984cc. The 3A block is the same height as all other VW inline 4cylinder blocks except the ABA block which is 16mm taller. As a result, the ABA has longer rods. The rod to stroke ratio of the ABA makes it a slightly smoother running engine.

100% correct.

Quote, originally posted by Longitudinal »

In other words, could pistons be safely swapped from the 3A to the ABA to the 9A? I'm kicking around the idea of a 16V NA 2.0L and would prefer to use the longer rod ABA bottom end.

Was toying with the idea of swapping pistons because of different piston heads. The rod-to-crank ratio would be better than that of the 9A. A good flowing head, good displacement, moderate compression...sounds like fun. And who the hell wants to pay for the kit that Bahn Brenner sells $$$. I guess if you dont have junkyards loaded with A3 Jettas and B3 Passats you would do that. In Atlanta, our local Mcpart-pull(Pull-A-Part) whatever four cylinder short block you want is like $70.

[[Oo=MK2=oO]macelius]

man, our pull-a-part the a3 are still not so common and the a2s get stripped pretty quick still.

[Mk1Racer]

Quote, originally posted by MkIIRoc »

I'm running 9a pistons with an 8v head, no touching the head, and the 9a block is basically a 3a block.

Certainly not on pump gas. CR is what 13.5:1?

[VdubFeind]

Quote, originally posted by cheeseland »

how would you install a turbo with an ABA block & a 1.8 head? will the compression be too high?

I'm doing that in my Cabby right now. I'm using the OBD1 ABA Block with a G60 Head. Mated with the ABA head gasket. I'm guessing the compression will be around 9.5:1 or lower. Also using a Motronic fuel injection.

Here is the build thread.
http://forums.generationdub.co...20211

[ABA Scirocco]

Quote, originally posted by VdubFeind »

I'm using the OBD1 ABA Block with a G60 Head. Mated with the ABA head gasket. I'm guessing the compression will be around 9.5:1 or lower.

It's a little higher than that, somewhere around 10:1. If you cc a completely stock ABA engine and do the calculations, the compression ratio works out to about 9.7:1 give or take a tenth, the 1.8L heads chambers are about 2ccs smaller than the ABA head which bumps the compression ratio up to around 10:1

[gtiguy1994]

I pulled a CIS engine out of a Audi 4000s
Im not too sure how to tell what block I have laying around.
Can someone plz tell me how to find out? What marks should I look for?


Modified by gtiguy1994 at 7:24 PM 3-9-2009

[Canadian V-Dub]

Look for a letter code somewhere on a flat spot on the engine. Start near the distributor.

It'll be kinda big, like over 1.5'' tall, if I had to guess.

Other than that, there might be a serial tag somewhere on the block.