Heads-up: VW "Lifetime" auto transmission fluid (baloney!!!)

[JEM]

from what I hear, if you use anything other than the dealer oil it will ruin your tranny. you don't have to buy it from the dealer, there are a few place online that sell thtranny fluid VW uses, but most you have to buy it in bulk, like 20 quarts at a time.

[Cadenza_7o]

Quote, originally posted by FrankBeauregarde »

Aside from Red Line (D4ATF) they where the only ones who actually recommended their fluid. I was wondering if anyone has tried anything other than ther dealer's german brand.

So far I know of 2 Mk4 owners using Redline D4-ATF and one NB'er using Amsoil Universal ATF. They've all verified the compability with VW ATF before putting the fluid into the transmission. I've not heard of any problems yet...

Most still use VW ATF (Pentosin) for warranty reasons.

[baomo]

My warranty is gone by miles. 106k currently.
I'm not a tribologist but if you compare the product data sheet the numbers are fairly close. And it only costs $2.99 not $12.99.

http://www.pentosin.de/eng/pro....html

http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsh...d.pdf

[JEM]

thats funny cause I called an Amsoil dealer and asked if they carried ATF fluid that was compatible with that VW uses and they told me no. the Amsoil dealer even checked with checked with Amsoil and they investigated and they said no

[baomo]

I had emailed Amsoil and they said Amsoil ATF is a good choice unless the tranny uses Type LT 71141 transmission fluid, then there was no replacement product.
I don't know what transmissions use LT 71141?

[Cadenza_7o]

Quote, originally posted by FrankBeauregarde »

I had emailed Amsoil and they said Amsoil ATF is a good choice unless the tranny uses Type LT 71141 transmission fluid, then there was no replacement product. I don't know what transmissions use LT 71141?

According to this Passat owner, LT-71141 is made by Esso and is used in VW Tiptronic made by ZF: http://www.taligentx.com/passa....html

The Amsoil info I got is from "granspajess" in my thread at Newbeetle.org:
http://forums.newbeetle.org/sh...ber=3


Modified by Cadenza_7o at 2:49 PM 12-19-2003

[baomo]

Oh so its for the passat tiptronic.

You know I went to Pep Boys last week for some carb cleaner and checked out the transmission filter section and they stock a Purolator filter kit; $32 for the kit (filter, gasket, seal ring).
Well if VW's stance is that the transmission is 0 maintenance why do after-markets like Purolator make replacements and why does Pep Boys stock them? I guess people are buying and using them.

[JEM]

yep, that is what the Amsoil dealer I talked to said, I have a Passat so there is no replacement fluid other then the dealer fluid

[Cadenza_7o]

Quote, originally posted by FrankBeauregarde »

You know I went to Pep Boys last week for some carb cleaner and checked out the transmission filter section and they stock a Purolator filter kit; $32 for the kit (filter, gasket, seal ring). Well if VW's stance is that the transmission is 0 maintenance why do after-markets like Purolator make replacements and why does Pep Boys stock them? I guess people are buying and using them.

Zero maintenance for VW, mucho dinero and foul expletives for us when the powertrain warranty is out the window.

[okanagan45]

Let me get this straight:
-The 5sp auto in the passat is made by ZF from Germany.
-The 5sp auto in the MKIV like mine is made by JATCO from Japanese manufacture.
And they use different fluids? You would think hydraulic fluid for one automatic tranny is simmilar to the next.

[Cadenza_7o]

According to the poster "sjoback" on page 1 of this thread, the part # for the ATF is different for the tip transmission.

Quote, originally posted by sjoback »

well yeah, its $12 a bottle for the 4 speed auto fluid, but the tiptronic fluid has a different part number and runs about $25 from vwparts.com.

[JEM]

the TIP in my Passat says it is lifetime fluid, but at 73K one look at the oil tell you it isn't life time. it is black like a magic marker.

I checked on the price of the fluid at the dealer and they told me it is 16 per quart. if you drain the pan and refill it will use about 3 quarts, but an entire drain and fill (including the TQ converter) it will take 9 quarts at 16 each is 144, yes that is US dollars and that is only for fluid. you still should buy a tranny filter and you need a gasket, tack on another 50.

[sjoback]

Quote, originally posted by okanagan45 »

Let me get this straight: -The 5sp auto in the passat is made by ZF from Germany. -The 5sp auto in the MKIV like mine is made by JATCO from Japanese manufacture. And they use different fluids? You would think hydraulic fluid for one automatic tranny is simmilar to the next.

The 4spd and 5spd trannys are of a different design. The 4spd has different fluids for the final drive and the transmission. The 5spd does not seperate the final drive and transmission, and uses the same fluid to lubricate both.

The transmission oils for each are definately different, and the 5spd auto fluid is extrememly expensive. From the dealer, cost is around $30 per liter!!

If you go to http://www.1stvwparts.com and order the fluid from there, you can get it for about $20/liter. Still pricey. You can get the 4spd fluid there too, they charge 20% over invoice.

Some info I put up about changing tip fluid can be found here

Tips on Changing 5spd Tiptronic Fluid

[JEM]

Quote, originally posted by sjoback »

The 5spd does not seperate the final drive and transmission, and uses the same fluid to lubricate both.

If you are referring to the 5spd tip that is in a Passat like my 99 then you are wrong. The final drive fluid (75w-90) is in a housing of it own, one on each side of the tranny. Then there is 9 quarts of special VW only tranny fluid and I you can get it cheaper then 30 per liter. I got 3 bottles for 16 each plus tax. Anyone need some fluid, 12 each?

[okanagan45]

JEM,

It was understood earlier that the Passat has a different gear box and separate differential reservoir.

[DaFabolous2.0]

Quote, originally posted by sjoback »

The transmission oils for each are definitely different, and the 5spd auto fluid is extrememly expensive. From the dealer, cost is around $30 per liter!!

thats rediculous...

the dealer by my house (not mentioning names) sells the fluid for $18 a bottle (01M) and another dealer selling it for $12, im not sure on the tip fluid, but $30 is a sick rip off

and i read an earlier post regarding the Quaker State fluid, i really wouldn't recommend using that fluid if vw states that the vw fluid is meant for that tranny...quaker state probably means for the 096 tranny...i read a bulletin about the 01M ATF, can be also used in the 096 tranny...but how can you use this fluid if it cant be mixed...but the 096 if it uses Dexron throughout its time... some confusing ****

[baomo]

When I changed I went to the dealer for fluid @ $12/liter. But that's so expensive. (my sympathy for those being charged $30) What kind of additives and detergents do they use to make it so expensive?

My dealer wanted $50 for the filter and $30 for pan gasket and didn't even stock the seal ring. I found the whole kit at Pep Boys for $32. I cant' imagine a difference in quality worth $48.

Quaker State / Penzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF says its synthetic and mineral base stocks and is recommended for VW/Audi, Voith, ZF; who made the CHK transmission? I emailed them my transmission code an year and they said it would work. I'm sure it wouldn't last 100k (or lifetime like VW stuff claims) but at $47 for 5L of fluid and the filter kit you could afford to change it every 2 years / 40K miles, opposed to $140 for parts at the dealer or maybe $90 if you order online. You can order Redline or Amsoil, but I can't find it locally.

I recall reading somewhere that the service interval on the transmissions on MKIII were changed from 60k to lifetime without changing the transmission but by switching to this special fluid and by removing the dipstick. If that's true then you should be able to purge the system and switch to something else.

[DaFabolous2.0]

heres the link i was talking about in my last post

http://www.20vturbo.com/tsb/mi...2.pdf

[amper]

This topic is near and dear to my heart because I was shocked and dismayed after I bought the Jetta to discover that VW specifies no maintenance interval for the 01M transmission, when VW says the 096 in my Passat should be serviced every 30,000 miles.

So now the Jetta is at 55K+ and I'm really starting to get nervous--I think I'll do the change soon.

For the 096, I've always had great success with Mobil 1 ATF and changing it every 15,000 miles (I'm pretty hard on transmissions, which is why I'm *really* nervous about the Jetta). As you can see, my 096 is now at 199K+.

I'd be really interested to know if any one is using Mobil 1 ATF in their 01M.

[amper]

So after reading the TSB, I have a question...

how do you drain the other six liters of fluid???

[Cadenza_7o]

Quote, originally posted by amper »

This topic is near and dear to my heart because I was shocked and dismayed after I bought the Jetta to discover that VW specifies no maintenance interval for the 01M transmission, when VW says the 096 in my Passat should be serviced every 30,000 miles. So now the Jetta is at 55K+ and I'm really starting to get nervous--I think I'll do the change soon. For the 096, I've always had great success with Mobil 1 ATF and changing it every 15,000 miles (I'm pretty hard on transmissions, which is why I'm *really* nervous about the Jetta). As you can see, my 096 is now at 199K+. I'd be really interested to know if any one is using Mobil 1 ATF in their 01M.

I changed mine at 50k and wished I had done it at 30k. You can't drain the torque converter, so multiple drains is necessary if you want to get most of the old stuff out. For the 01M, 2 drains should give you about 75% new fluid. For convenience, I'll just do 1 drain per year (15-20k) from now on and replace the filter every 2-3 years when I bleed the brake system.

So far I've heard of Amsoil and Redline ATFs being compatible with VW's 01M tranny. Not sure about the 096 though.

[sjoback]

I think the best you can do is dilute it, if you don't have the fancy equipment. Do 3L, run the car for a bit, change another 3L, etc.

[baomo]

You can't drain the torque converter but I wonder if taking this end cover off would drain additional fluid and help to clean thing out? Looks pretty easy to get to, may need to change the gasket.

Modified by FrankBeauregarde at 6:57 PM 12-23-2003

[DaFabolous2.0]

interesting FrankBeauregarde... i wonder if the final drive gear fluid will also come out...i also heard that you can use VW ATF for the final gear reservoir

well anyhow (going off topic here, sorry) im selling my ride http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1162449 and going for a manual this time...i promise everyone this, that i will never buy another vw/audi automatic because of what i went through, its costing too much money to maintain the tranny and now its all fixed...i got a 1 year/12k mile warranty on it, but now its time for me to get a sticky...im sorry, but $3000 is too much

just my 2 cents

[baomo]

Good luck with the sale DaFabolous2.0 ..sorry to see it go, hopefully it goes to a good person that will take care of it...
I agree no more VW/Audi auto's for me, my next VW will definitely be 5 speed and probably TDI.
When (not if) the trans goes out on my golf I'm just going to make it a project car do a five speed swap maybe make it rally car.

[DaFabolous2.0]

Quote, originally posted by FrankBeauregarde »

Good luck with the sale DaFabolous2.0 ..sorry to see it go, hopefully it goes to a good person that will take care of it...

i hope so too Frank B. , thats why i have my car for sale in vortex and on Club H20 because i want this car to be sold to a vw enthusiast...i hate to see it go, its like you're giving the kid up for adoption, having fun memories and times with the car, but the bad feeling about it is that im not gonna see it ever again...im not gonna leave vw because of this, they just made a bad tranny and dont know how to maintain it well...i dont understand why they stop making the 096 tranny if they didnt had these many problems with the 01M...

Quote »

I agree no more VW/Audi auto's for me, my next VW will definitely be 5 speed and probably TDI. When (not if) the trans goes out on my golf I'm just going to make it a project car do a five speed swap maybe make it rally car

if you make a 5-speed swap to your Golf, make some posts and a DIY thing...making your Golf into a rally car sounds like a sweet project ...

[DaFabolous2.0]

well today, coming back from work...i was talking to my friend, she owns a B5.5 passat tip..and she was telling me that the tranny feels like it doesnt want to shift into the next gear and sometimes slips...i told her to get the tranny oil change, but its gonna be expensive..she was told that it was a sealed and wasn't required to get it changed...i took it for a spin and yea it definetly slips and delays going into gear, also, some harsh shifting when 3-4k rpms even when warm...i told her get her fluid change, go to a different dealer if needed to...car only has 28k miles

another "sealed tranny" owner saved

[okanagan45]

30,000 mi (50,000km) sounds like a safe time to start the transmission servicing. But I was hoping we Jetta tip owners can just disconnect the tubing that go to the cooler and use a $35 electric pump. Quick connect press-on thingy's are only $0.25 plus two sections of hose one to put into clean gallon jug the other for out flow till it comes out clear. Am I dreaming? Then after that just remove test plug till it stops running out. We can even pre heat the fluid to 30 deg. Celsius as recommended by service bulletin.

[sjoback]

do you mean disconnect the tubing on the top of the trans cooler? Unfortunately, the cooler is bolted to the trans and there are no lines running out of the trans which have trans fluid in them. It's pretty much a sealed unit.

And as for running out the fluid till its clear, I think the fluid is too expensive to do that! Besides, don't worry about the temp and all that crap. I say, just dump the fluid, pour in 4L and repeat again sometime soon. If you do a double change, you will have diluted the fluid pretty well.

The temp part of testing is only important if you are going to not be changing the fluid.

And yes, I think you're dreaming! But it's a nice dream!

[Cadenza_7o]

I second sjoback's opinion of renewing the ATF by dilution of multiple drain-n-refills. This is possibly the best way to slowly clean the internals... especially on trannies that haven't been serviced for many years.

[Holy Piston]

Here is an for you guys,in Hawaii,096 & 01M trannies list for $5,275.000 from the dealer!!!Labor is another $800.00-&1000.00 That sucks!!.

[JEM]

just got one for my passat 01V-300-041-QX

$4542.99 - $1100 core, then another $1303.80 to install it. Total $4746.79

sure gald I got an extended warranty, I paid $75


Modified by JEM at 11:08 PM 12-27-2003

[baomo]

Unless its your daily driver you'd be better off getting a swap kit for 1695 + a starter and a bunch of tool from sears.

[DaFabolous2.0]

Quote, originally posted by Holy Piston »

Here is an for you guys,in Hawaii,096 & 01M trannies list for $5,275.000 from the dealer!!!Labor is another $800.00-&1000.00 That sucks!!.

honestly, i almost pissed myself when i heard the price of a brand new 01M...but its better off rebuilding it since its still usable or even cheaper, a 5 speed swap is the better or best solution since it will last you a very very long time...the only problems i could think of is wear on the clutch, syncros and few others

..im surprised that the 096 is that expensive...i still wonder whats the difference on a non-sealed trans and a "sealed" trans i really see no difference, but the dipstick part

[DaFabolous2.0]

Quote, originally posted by JEM »

Just looked again and here are the numbers I see for a 96 Jetta 2.0 Auto TCM: 1H1-927-739CN 01M-927-733E 1H1-927-739AR that is all that is listed, if it isn't one of these then I guess I can't help.

i takled to the dealer the other day (i forgot to post this) and they told me that 01M-927-733E tcm was used in the automatic 2.0 and that the tcms were all the same ... i picked up another tcm the other day and it was weird because the bracket for the tcm has this number stickered on -> 1H1-927-739AR and the tcm number was 01M-927-733E ...and now im confused if there was a tcm with the 1H1 number or if its just a bracket for the tcm