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    Thread: drive by wire and how the computer learns your driving habits

    1. 10-25-2003 11:04 PM #1
      I've searched around and can't find anything on what I think may be an important topic for new owners.
      The computer 'learns' your driving habits, right? Some questions about that:
      1. Is this some neural net software, and more generally, how exactly does it 'learn'?
      2. What should be avoided while the software learns? It seems to me that, if lots of different people drive it, the software might get very confused. This might be part of the 'lag' problem that some people have observed, and may be a particular issue with cars off the lot.
      3. What's the best way to drive if you want the thing to be as acutely responsive as possible?

    2. 10-26-2003 12:10 AM #2
      Good point you raised.You are reffering to what they call FUZZY LOGIC.Basically the various control units remember your driving style (throttle position e.t.c) and thus this governs gear change points and such things.There is no thing that should be avoided as the control units are constantly learning and adapting.This in isself should not contribute to throttle "lag" in itself although it has been attributed to jerky or slow gearchanges especially in environments where the car is constntly being driven slowly (built up areas).Many drivers find that their car has much better driving characteristics after it has been on a high speed run where higher speed/throttle positions have been used.I have seen situations where a husband and wife have identical car models and one car will appear to have slow gearchange/lack of power in comparison to the other.Upon questioning of thier respective driving styles,the answer becomes more apparent.We found that one car had been on long distance/high speed runs whereas the other was mostly used in town,commuting to and from the office at very low speed.After they agreed to swap vehicles for a short while,the characteristics were completly reversed!

    3. 10-26-2003 12:31 AM #3
      Hmmm. Then I might have something here. I had the same problem until I reset.
      "OK now I buy the adaptive driving deal. The chip remembers how you last drove and sets itself - until you reset it.
      If thats true....
      Then the baby Peppers would learn the driving habit of the fellow who drove the car off the line, the fellow who drove the car on the truck, etc.. and the dealers staff around the parking lot.... until you pick it up and floor it out of the dealer. All of these intermediaries drove the car gingerly.
      No wonder there is a pause on instant acceleration. "

    4. 10-26-2003 12:39 AM #4
      It doesnt happen so fast,Tourags.
      The adaption values in a control unit change very slowly over a long period of time and many drive cycles.
      In theory,going into a control unit and erasing the Learned Values should reset things but the noticable results are negligable.
      Best thing is to drive the car and try to forget about such things.If you are constantly feeling for gearchange points e.t.c ,i think you may find it takes some of the pleasure out of your drive whick is just what you dont want!

    5. 10-26-2003 01:28 AM #5
      Bangkok, thanks for the insight. That makes sense. If anyone has more technical details, that would be helpful, too.
      Bangkok and Torags, resetting is the way to go if its behavior is unsatisfactory? What are the default values they start with? I wonder if an improvement is possible over what the engineers must have thought were good average characteristics?

    6. 10-26-2003 09:48 AM #6
      Good explanation, and observed behavior tends to agree.
      However, my argument isn't how it learns, but why? Drive should be smooth soft shifts, Sport should be fast crisp shifts(and higher RPMs). Tip should do what I say.
      If(when) I drive my truck hard, it starts shifting harder. Then I get in some traffic, and it has some pretty jerky downshifts, in the slower gears, for several stop/goes. Sure, if I drive slow and easy all the time things smooth up, but that's not the way I drive. I want to drive slow/smooth in traffic and play whenever I get a chance. I'm constantly going against the grain of the trucks learning, making it a somewhat unpleasant driving experience.
      All because some software engineer and marketing dweeb thought they could tell how I want to drive by just throttle/brake inputs? I'm suppose to drive the same way all(most) of the time so the system can be better for me? The fact I have to pay attention to how I drive so I understand why the truck feels skitso means they FAILED! It may work for some, maybe even most, but for me a self learning system just isn't a good thing.
      Flame not meant for you, I'm just hoping VW listens to some of these arguments. Thanks for the clear explanation of the system.

    7. 10-26-2003 10:47 AM #7
      I think these issues are not specific to the T-Reg; I just don't see them discussed much probably because most people are probably unaware of them.
      JoCaputo, if it doesn't work for you maybe resetting on a regular basis is the way to go?

    8. 10-26-2003 06:43 PM #8
      Resetting works for my Pepper, to get rid of the throttle hesitation. I do mostly city driving, but I do like to get out and pass. Throttle hesitation was making that a risky situation.
      Someone on the Porsch board had it reset at the dealer, while he waited.
      I don't know if they were able to turn off adaptive aspect or a temp fix.

    9. 10-26-2003 11:58 PM #9
      I do not believe that T-reg has a neural network thing programmed in it someplace. Just look at that Nav unit? Isn't it a bit outdated for a 2004 model?
      Probably, the thing has a "cumulative" average setting for several control modules and the "learning" that was mentioned is the accumulation of those values over some time. It is quite likely that erazing all the acuumulated data may free the car from glitches such as the infamous acceleration hesitation.

    10. 10-27-2003 05:51 AM #10
      Correct,****us.All adaptive control units have a base setting.If you read the correct measured value blocks in the respective c.u's you can see exactly how far the values have adapted from normal settings.There is a way to clear these values although the results do tend to be negligable.Try the engine c.u - 01 and then on to fuction 10 - adaption,then key in - 00 (ERASE LEARNED VALUES).
      This should reset adaption values to zero again.You may find that the fuction cannot be carried out.This seems to vary from car to car and control unit to control unit.

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