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    Thread: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+

    1. Member
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      11-03-2003 04:08 AM #1
      Just wanted to give a bit of info on changing the ATF on a 09A 5 speed tiptronic transmission. The 09A is different from the 01M, in that there is no longer any separation of the final drive and the transmission. All parts now share the same fluid, you no long have to buy gear oil for the final drive. The following is not a step by step, but just some information to go along with the Bentley procedure.

      If you are looking for the filler plug, here are some shots. The drain plug is the big one on the bottom. I think it’s a 15/16, I didn’t have a metric that size. I would guess 24mm? Too lazy to convert.


      Unlike the 01M 4 speed automatic, it seems that it is not easily possible to change the oil screen (filter). The Bentley manual does not give any mention to the filter whatsover. The design of the 09A places the valve bodies at the front of the transmission, rather than underneath like the 01M. The 01M filter is easily accessible from the underside of the transmission, by removing the pan. The 09A, however, does not have the filter with the valve bodies, and I am actually not sure of the exact location. Judging from the parts display screen at a VW dealer, the filter is roughly behind the torque converter inside the casing. I had already purchased the filter, and then realized that changing it was hopeless unless I removed the trans. Now I could be wrong about all of this, but this is my take on it. Below are some pics of the filter, in case people are curious. It is apparently a fine metal mesh that is used to filter.


      Ok, on to the fluid change. According to the Bentley manual, there is a procedure, which calls for draining the fluid, dumping in approx 2.5l, and then checking the fluid level at a specified temperature (By the way measuring block 002 is used for the 09A trans temperature). BE SURE TO GET THE RIGHT FLUID. Most part shops will try to give you the fluid for the 01M trans, so be sure to get G052990A2 for the tiptronic trans. It looks like traditional trans fluid (cherry cough syrup) in color. Oh and a funnel like something below will do the trick.


      Having performed the procedure as close to the manual as possible, I can tell you that THIS DID NOT WORK FOR ME. I managed to drain the fluid without jacking up the car, which was nice. I used a 7.5 Qt pan, and the drained fluid filled up a good amount of the pan. I unfortunately did not measure exactly, but it appears that roughly 3.5l was drained from the trans. So, when going to fill up the transmission, I decided to pour in 3l. Did that, got the trans up to temp, and pulled the check plug. Quite a bit of fluid drained out, I would guess somewhere around .5l (surprise). So anyway I sealed the trans up and took her for a drive. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU DO NOT DO THIS. The trans shifted ok, but it sounded like the differential did not have quite enough oil. Here's a poor shot of the old oil below. It looked kinda like chocolate syrup. The drainplug (magnetic) actually did not have a whole lot of metal on it. Changing at 30k, some of them chipped, with a few 1hr drives at 100+ did not seem to screw up the fluid that bad. It looks like 40k would have been ok for me, but I don’t have any actual oil analysis to back that up, so my comments really don’t mean sh*t.

      I drove about .5 mile like this. Hopefully nothing broke. So, I quickly went back and dumped in another liter. This seemed to do the trick, getting rid of all the horrible noises and such. I added a little more after this, just to top it off, after all, more is better than less. What could it hurt, eh?

      oh ok nevermind. Anyway, it looks like roughly 3.5l - 4l should be used. I cannot be certain, so I would recommend simply measuring how much fluid comes out and replace that (very technical). Well of course only do this if your trans has not been leaking fluid profusely. So, for those who are going to do this, I would recommend replacing the red sealing cap, because it would likely break when you try to remove it. If you are slick, then go ahead and save it. But most likely it will be a little delicate from the heat. So, I would say, get the cap for sure and also the drain plug washer. The black plug should be ok, and simply pull off. It might be a little stuck. If you really want to do the fluid procedure, you should get the check plug with washer too (I don’t see the point of this). The part numbers are listed below.

      G052990A2 Tiptronic Trans Fluid
      N90414201 Trans fluid level check plug
      09A325429 Trans Filter (good luck changing it)
      001409069D Drain plug washer
      01M321435B Red trans filler cap
      01M321432A Back trans filler plug

      So, to recap, I used about 3.5-4l of fluid (actually I personally used about 4.2l). If anyone decides to change the fluid, post how much exactly you get out, I am curious. According to a technical paper on http://erwin.volkswagen.de, the fluid change is approx 5l, and the trans fits about 2.5l using the fluid check access, and I actually drained out about 3.5l . So.. there are some conflicting numbers there. Below is a pic from the screen of the technical paper. The actual document is sealed media, which won't let you copy or even do a screenshot of.

      Finally, I would recommend going to Auburn VW http://www.1stvwparts.com/ for buying the parts. They sell at 20% over cost, which is cheaper than IMPEX (http://www.vwparts.com). Not all parts can be looked up on the 1stvwparts site, but if you put the parts numbers you need in the comments section, they will help you out. You can always call them too. For example, list price on the trans fluid is somewhere around $30, IMPEX is $25, and 1stvwparts is 20.74.


      Oh and btw, don’t forget to use the VAG tool to initiate basic settings with the transmission and throttle for smooth shifting. It really does make a big difference, especially if you have cleared any codes or made any changes.
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=847221

      If you’re bored, go to my friends site, btw. He is an attention wh*re and loves new hits. He is also hosting my pics for me.
      http://www.reverendsgarage.net

      fin

      edit:corrected trans info at top


      Modified by sjoback at 7:02 AM 1-24-2004


    2. 11-03-2003 07:23 PM #2
      Hmmmm... You poured in 3L. Ran the engine to the required temp (using Vag-com). Did you circulate the fluid first by shifting the tranny into each gear for about 5 seconds each before pulling the check plug? Skipping this step, the fluid level is not accurate.

    3. Member
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      11-03-2003 07:40 PM #3
      yep, ran the motor, shifted around. went through all of the gears, did it twice actually, to make sure the fluid circulated. very strange.

    4. 11-04-2003 04:44 AM #4
      Strange that your tranny was low on fluid when you followed the instruction.

      When mine was done, 2.6L was drained. This included the residual fluid in the pan and old filter. Bentley instructions said to use 3L for drain & refill WITHOUT mentioning anything about dropping the pan & filter. I ended up using 3.1L or 0.5L more that was drained. This is for a tranny that hasn't been serviced for 50,000 miles. The tranny has worked fine about 1000 miles now, which includes a 600-mile trip. I should check the level again.

      BTW, did you drop & clean the oil pan? You said there wasn't much metal shavings attached to the drain plug. I didn't have much on it either till I saw the pan.


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      11-04-2003 01:17 PM #5
      yours sounds more normal, but then again, you have the 4speed auto right?

      the tiptronic 5 speed auto does not have a pan like the 4 speed. The "pan" is facing the front of the car, standing upright. notice where the fill port is. The pan can be removed, but it is not the same, where junk is settling with the 4 speed. and there is no filter there


    6. 11-04-2003 01:38 PM #6
      Thanks for the clarification. I can see how it's different and more difficult to drop the pan compared to my 4-speed auto.


    7. 11-04-2003 02:26 PM #7
      Just curious... Doesn't VW say that the Tip is a "sealed" system and the tranny fluid is lifetime? I thought I read/heard this. Although that is prob based on a grandma driving it and no mods.

      I'd like to do this as well at around 35-40K but I don't think I'll be brave and do it myself based on the questionable amounts. Will a VW dealer even do this upon request?

      If it is indeed considered "lifetime" or "non-serviceable" and you change the fluid yourself couldn't they consider it warranty voiding?


      Edit Just read the other thread (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1064342) but some of my questions above still apply



      Modified by Jetta_1.8Tip at 12:37 PM 11-4-2003


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      11-04-2003 02:35 PM #8
      yeah, its considered sealed, although with the Eurovan you are supposed to change the fluid.

      if you want to be safe with the "amounts" just put back what you take out. can't be any safer than that.

      If you take it to a dealer they will charge you a bunch o money I'm sure, and most likely won't do it.

      and yes, the warranty is something to consider when doing this. If you want to make sure they never know, be sure to reuse the black plug on the fill hole of the trans. It is dabbed with white paint. I made the mistake of replacing mine. oops.


    9. 11-04-2003 10:39 PM #9
      Technically speaking, no transmission is really "sealed".

      Most have a vent to allow pressure escape as the tranny heats up and the fluid expands. Otherwise, the pressure would blow the seals and damage the electronics. And of course, there has to be a way to "drain and fill" the ATF.


    10. 11-07-2003 12:16 AM #10
      Quote, originally posted by sjoback »
      If you want to make sure they never know, be sure to reuse the black plug on the fill hole of the trans. It is dabbed with white paint. I made the mistake of replacing mine. oops.

      good ol' white out should do the trick , they'll never know


    11. Member
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      11-07-2003 12:31 AM #11
      Quote, originally posted by DaFabolous2.0 »

      good ol' white out should do the trick , they'll never know

      yeah, thats what I figured


    12. 11-07-2003 04:31 PM #12
      lol

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      11-10-2003 01:37 AM #13
      Hey look at that picture with the torque rating, 258lbs of torque so Is this the final rating of the 5 speed tiptronic so that all rumours can be laid to rest?

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      11-10-2003 02:03 AM #14
      I suppose you could say that. The screen shot is from the vw self study program 232. I think this number has been floated around before.

    15. 11-13-2003 05:35 AM #15
      Sorry to hijack

      Here is a topic that may be interesting to MK4 Tip Owners

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1108097


    16. 12-20-2003 05:05 PM #16
      Thanks for the posting, very informative. I've always changed tranny fluid after a few years of ownership, 30K-40K miles, sounds right to me also. Two of my previous automatics had over 300,000 kms (200,000+mi) and trouble free.
      But the difficult access to the filter, and no pan to precipitate filings makes me wonder if more frequent changes are a wiser choice, and ignore the filter as long as possible.

      edit: for poor English, gee you would think after 40 years, ah, never-mind it's fixed.


      Modified by okanagan45 at 8:31 PM 12-20-2003


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      12-20-2003 05:23 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by okanagan45 »
      Thanks for the posting, very informative. I've always changed tranny fluid after a few years of ownership, 30K-40K miles, sounds right to me also. Two of my previous automatics had over 300,000 kms (200,000+mi) and trouble free.
      But the difficult access to the filter, and no pan to precipitate filings makes me wonder if more changes are a wise choice, and ignore the filter as long as possible.

      yeah that's what I'm going with. more changes, and not worry about the filter. It's metal mesh, so I wouldn't worry about it too much, and as I mentioned, not going to be changed unless you drop the trans. I am going to change my fluid again at 40k, so that I have a good fluid flush. I'll wait another 30k after that.

      the drainplug is magnetic, though I would feel better being able to clean a pan out like the 4spd auto folk.

      edit: I noticed that above I mentioned I changed my fluid at 30k, actually the intial change was at 35k, for those who care.


      Modified by sjoback at 9:32 PM 12-20-2003


    18. 12-24-2003 03:17 PM #18
      I just priced a new electric pump (250 gph) for $35. Couldn't we just disconnect the transmission lines and use quick connect fittings to extend the tubing and flush it out with the pump? I mentioned this on another thread but this thread is more specific to my transmission, and it needed a lift to the top.

    19. Member
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      12-24-2003 03:26 PM #19
      well, I just answered your post in the other thread

      but yeah, basically, there are no trans lines we can use to flush out the fluid. The trans cooler bolts to the trans, with no actual "lines" for us to access. The only "lines" running in and out of the trans cooler are for the coolant. Our car doesn't have an external trans cooler (with lines we can tap into) like some others.

      Maybe we could take the trans cooler off, and hook up a hose to that connection? But I don't know how much good that would do. Plus the hassle.

      Like I said in the other thread, try just changing your fluid twice, should be good enough. I am going to change my fluid again at 40k (5k after my first change of 4L).


    20. 12-24-2003 08:08 PM #20
      Okay, thanks man,
      I guess it's the partial drain and repeat method as I've done with previous cars. It works well no doubt because I never had transmission troubles ever in my 25 years of driving automatics.

    21. 12-28-2003 12:34 AM #21
      Good thread man!!!!BTW "Sealed for life" in VW terms means;Do not service!!!This trans is designed to last until the warranty has expired,and then you can easily buy a replacment for $8,000.00. Is'nt that nice??Thank you VW for the planned obsolesence!! Atleast they are made by AISIN right??Japanese make excellent trannys!

    22. 12-28-2003 02:41 AM #22
      I'm not aware our transmissions are made by "Aisin" I always thought they are made by Jatco also from Japanese manufacture. Do you know something we don't? Do tell.

    23. Member coolvdub's Avatar
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      12-28-2003 02:06 PM #23
      Yeah our 5 speed Tips are made by Jatco. I have dowmloaded the literature from the Erwin site and the report that goes back to the manufacturer lists Jatco.

      Don

      Don

      CANCER SUCKS but KAISER SUCKS MORE/But so far I kicked it's ASS

    24. 12-28-2003 06:03 PM #24
      VAG has recently switched supplier from Jatco to Aisin-Warner for its tiptronic-equipped cars.

    25. 12-28-2003 06:24 PM #25
      Quote, originally posted by Cadenza_7o »
      VAG has recently switched supplier from Jatco to Aisin-Warner for its tiptronic-equipped cars.

      Really? That's interesting... Is this just for the Beetle S 6sp Tip or the Passat Tip? Or have they switched the 09A Jetta/Golf version too?


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      12-28-2003 09:19 PM #26
      yeah, fill us in on this one...

    27. 12-29-2003 08:28 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by sjoback »
      yeah, fill us in on this one...

      check the 2nd page of this pdf file: http://www.aisin.co.jp/english...w.pdf

      The Touareg, New Beetle Cabriolet and Audi TT 6-spd auto trans will be from Aisin. The list is not complete so I'm not sure about the other models with 5-sp tips and regular autos.

      EDIT: Link corrected.


      Modified by Cadenza_7o at 12:41 AM 12-30-2003


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      12-29-2003 09:37 PM #28
      i dont think the link is correct.

    29. 12-30-2003 04:43 AM #29
      Sorry, the link is corrected...

      http://www.aisin.co.jp/english...w.pdf


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      01-13-2004 06:40 PM #30
      Update: Ordered some more fluid from Auburn VW to do a second flush. I will be at around 5k miles since my last change, and I figure this should keep the fluid pretty clean for the next 30k miles.

      So my schedule has become: 1st change @35k miles, then @40k miles. After that, I'm going to follow the same schedule, change @70k, then again @ 75k.

      This seems to me to be a reasonable schedule, and I plan on using 4L of fluid at each change from now on. When I change the fluid in the next couple weeks I will post some pics if there is anything interesting.


    31. Junior Member Le_Loup's Avatar
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      01-23-2004 05:53 PM #31
      sjoback,

      Thanks for the great writeup. I will doing a drain and refill on my Tiptronic fluid later this summer.

      I was wondering...do we also need to drain and refill the differential gear oil? I was wondering if our cars have to have this replaced every once in a while also. If we do, any suggestion of what type and brand of fluid is needed? TIA.


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      01-24-2004 03:02 AM #32
      hey glad it helps. if you take a look at the first few lines of the original post, I mention that the 09A uses the same fluid for final drive and transmission.

      You do not need to deal with two types of oil, like the 4spd auto transmissions do. Just stick with the G052990A2, and you will be all set.


    33. Junior Member Le_Loup's Avatar
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      01-24-2004 04:06 AM #33
      sjoback,

      Oopss...sorry, I didn't read those first few lines cuz I was concentrating more on the nice pix ya posted. I will be ordering a bunch of 1 L bottles of the G052990A2 fluid to attempt this change in a few months time. Thanks again.


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      02-10-2004 07:51 PM #34
      Update:

      Ok I did my change as planned. I got about 3.3L of fluid out of this drain, which was less than I expected. hmm. oh well. anyway, poured 4L back in and the trans seemed to like it.

      Fluid was a little dirty, but not too bad. I think the second change was definately worth it.

      I think I will revise my fluid change schedule a bit, now that I am planning to get re-chipped. Probably change the fluid again in 20-25k.

      BTW: Here is an interesting thread to read about the different auto trans from VW and cooling, specifically, comments made by KwokTTQ further down the page. LINK


    35. 03-05-2004 05:32 PM #35
      I refer to this thread so often that it deserves a bump

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