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    Thread: How does twin engine cars work?

    1. 12-12-2003 12:46 AM #1
      I mean like if you have one engine powering the rear wheels and one powering the front wheels. How do you keep the engine in sync as to prevent the rear from revving quicker than the front or vis versa. Even if the engine is exactly the same...won't you have slight variation power? So is the power split determine by the differential like in an AWD system? Same with cars with electric motor on all four wheel. What if motors on one side is weakened, would that not make the car have "torque steer." Wouldn't trying to keep all the engine/motor in sync cap the max power potential? Whats the advantage of multiple engine over a single large or super powerful engine?

    2. 12-12-2003 12:53 AM #2

      I wanna know how things like throttle and shifter cables are managed... I've never been close enough to a twin engine car to see for myself.

    3. 12-12-2003 01:01 AM #3
      I'm pretty sure they have one pedal linked to two throttle cables and the shifter has linkages to both gearboxes?

      -Andrew


    4. 12-12-2003 01:10 AM #4
      So it's a dual gearbox setup with twice the alternator, waterpump, etc..? Man that would be mad heavy...how is that an advantage over a single engine with AWD system like the EVO? In what circumstance would u even want a dual engine?

    5. 12-12-2003 01:16 AM #5
      Quote, originally posted by 87GolfKart »
      what circumstance would u even want a dual engine?

      just for kicks


    6. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      12-12-2003 01:16 AM #6
      Quote, originally posted by 87GolfKart »
      In what circumstance would u even want a dual engine?

      when you can't fit in a bigger engine and you can't get any more power out of it, the only option is to put a second one in! instant power doubling!


    7. 12-12-2003 01:23 AM #7
      Quote, originally posted by GTiTOM »

      when you can't fit in a bigger engine and you can't get any more power out of it, the only option is to put a second one in! instant power doubling!

      ahh yeah i thought that might be the case...split a v12 into dual v6's


    8. 12-12-2003 01:40 AM #8
      Ian Birch(?) of DubSport(?) in England built a few of those including a twin-vr6 Rallye and twin 16v Rabbit... also a mid-engine turbo rabbit with rwd.

      One of the problems he had with the Rallye is the engine cooling/heating. Basically you can run the car on just one engine and then fire up the other one when you feel like racing or sumtin'. Problem is the other engine is cold at that point so it gets really trashed if you go hard right away. So in the the 2x16v Rabbit he built after that he ran the cooling hoses from one engine to the other so the hot coolant would warm the non-active motor before use...

      At least that's what I remember from some old PerformanceVW magazines...


    9. 12-12-2003 01:46 AM #9

    10. Member Triumph's Avatar
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      12-12-2003 09:10 AM #10
      two engined cars are dumb, imo.
      -Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog

      I saw this in a movie about a bus that had to speed around the city, keeping its speed over fifty, and if its speed dropped, the bus would explode! I think it was called, "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down."

    11. 12-12-2003 09:19 AM #11
      Car and Driver built a twin engined CRX. They used the road to synchronize the front and rear engines. To make things easier, they used automatic transmission... they only had to duplex the throttle and shifter cables.

      BMC made a twin engined version of the Mini Moke, a Mini powered utility vehicle that looked like the VW Thing, for a UK military contract proposal. It was a quick cheap way of getting 4WD. You could turn on/off either engine. They had manual transmissions and that they could be shifted independently... you could have on engine in 4th gear and the other in 2nd. I don't know how specifically how the controls worked.


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      12-12-2003 09:21 AM #12
      Mosler Twinstar owns all!

      http://www.moslerauto.com/mosa...e.htm

      obin

      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    13. 12-12-2003 09:22 AM #13
      MTM bi-moto

    14. Member MEIN_VW's Avatar
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      12-12-2003 09:34 AM #14
      Quote, originally posted by GTiTOM »

      when you can't fit in a bigger engine and you can't get any more power out of it, the only option is to put a second one in! instant power doubling!

      And a big weight increase too.

      I don't understand. So many people here moan that new cars are too heavy but praise a car with 2 engines


    15. 12-12-2003 09:36 AM #15
      Quote, originally posted by Triumph »
      two engined cars are dumb, imo.

      Here... let me give you your click back since you really didn't want to read in here anyways.

      Back on topic, IIRC, the twin-engine Tiburon used automatic transmissions, which eliminated the issue of having to shift both transmissions simultaneously.

      Bowtie wearing, tattooed, Mustang driver

      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      I was more annoyed with the implication of being a Browns fan.

    16. Member Triumph's Avatar
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      12-12-2003 01:45 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by cougar »

      Here... let me give you your click back since you really didn't want to read in here anyways.

      Back on topic, IIRC, the twin-engine Tiburon used automatic transmissions, which eliminated the issue of having to shift both transmissions simultaneously.

      i'm still interested in how they work, i just think they're a dumb idea.

      -Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog

      I saw this in a movie about a bus that had to speed around the city, keeping its speed over fifty, and if its speed dropped, the bus would explode! I think it was called, "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down."

    17. 12-12-2003 01:59 PM #17
      Quote »
      you could have on engine in 4th gear and the other in 2nd. I don't know how specifically how the controls worked.

      i still don't understand how you distribute the torque between the two engine...what if one engine pushes harder then the other in acceleration...like the rear would push faster than the front...and the car acually accelerate at the speed of the rear...wouldn't this be a waste of the secod engine? the front slower engine would actually slow the car down?


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      12-12-2003 02:01 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by 87GolfKart »
      So it's a dual gearbox setup with twice the alternator, waterpump, etc..? Man that would be mad heavy...how is that an advantage over a single engine with AWD system like the EVO? In what circumstance would u even want a dual engine?


      Ummm...2 engine = more power.


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      12-12-2003 02:06 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by 87GolfKart »

      i still don't understand how you distribute the torque between the two engine...what if one engine pushes harder then the other in acceleration...like the rear would push faster than the front...and the car acually accelerate at the speed of the rear...wouldn't this be a waste of the secod engine? the front slower engine would actually slow the car down?

      No that's not quite what would happen. Think about you and a buddy pushing a car. Lets say that you are stronger than your buddy. Which is faster: you pushing on your own, or both of you working together? Obviously both of you working together.
      Unless the more powerful engine was accelerating the car more quickly than the second engine could accelerate with no load then they are both contributing.


    20. 12-12-2003 03:20 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by 87GolfKart »

      i still don't understand how you distribute the torque between the two engine...what if one engine pushes harder then the other in acceleration...like the rear would push faster than the front...and the car acually accelerate at the speed of the rear...wouldn't this be a waste of the secod engine? the front slower engine would actually slow the car down?

      mosler's twinstar actually encountered this problem, as one engine was the 275hp northstar from the elc, and the other was the 300hp version from the etc. So when accelerating hard, each transmission would have different shift points, and as one engine shifted, and other assumed full responsibility for power.


    21. 12-12-2003 04:46 PM #21
      <troll>
      twin engine, quad engine... no matter, a chipped 1.8t still ownz it all!
      </troll>

    22. Member matt007's Avatar
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      12-13-2003 07:26 AM #22


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      12-13-2003 08:03 AM #23
      Quote, originally posted by MEIN_VW »

      And a big weight increase too.

      Use bike engines .....

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    24. 12-13-2003 08:46 AM #24
      Citroën build like 700, IIRC, BiMotor CV2's. I think they were called Safari.

      I don't think synchronizing is much of a problem. If one engine is stronger than the other, the other one will just get a little push in the back. Just like driving downhill gives your engine a little push in the back.

      The gears need to be chosen so that both engines max out at the same time. Otherwise you have to shift when one engine reaches its peak, in doing so not using the full potential of the other engine.

      Bi-motor cars are interesting, and a way to make a balanced supercar out of a FWD chassis. But it'll never beat the single mid/rear engine.


    25. Member Spindle's Avatar
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      12-13-2003 10:04 AM #25
      Here's one way it's been done...
      (Click on pic for more info)

      I would imagine that these days engine sync could be electronically controlled. I know that multi-engined piston aircraft have that capability.


    26. 12-13-2003 10:07 AM #26
      Ahhh the subject comes up again, and I still can not find the car I've seen long ago...

      Bright green racing Scirocco - hollowed out, one race seat...two Hayabusa motorcycle engines side by side in the back - one driving each rear wheel!!

      --- lightweight car with 300+ hp of 14,000 RPM goodness...someone if you find this, please post it!!!!!


    27. 12-14-2003 03:08 AM #27
      Perhaps research aeromotive. Planes have managed this very well for nearly a century, where yaw is more severe.

      Cool link of Sikorsky facts: http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/timeline.html


      Modified by jhillyer at 12:14 AM 12-14-2003


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