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    Thread: Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits

    1. 01-24-2004 10:55 PM #1
      I was going to post this a while back, but forgot. These bits came up in a recent thread and reminded me to post this info.


      If you need triple square bits (like Torx bits but with 12 points instead of 6 - also called serrated or 12-point bits) in order to remove things like a flywheel or axle bolts, you can buy K-D bits from your local Napa Auto Parts store (can also buy them on-line).

      The Napa part numbers are as follows:

      8mm - SER2304 - $4.99
      10mm - SER2305 - $5.49
      12mm - SER2306 - $5.99

      AFAIK, there is no 6mm bit available (part number SER2303, which is the logical part number in the sequence, does not exist).


      Whatever you do, do NOT buy the Lisle set of triple square bits that PepBoys sells ($15 for 6, 8, 10 and 12mm). I made the mistake of purchasing this set in order to remove and reinstall my flywheel and axle bolts during a recent timing chain adventure. The teeth on 10mm bit from this set were deformed so badly after torquing just 3 of 10 flywheel bolts that it was completely unusable. I ended up taking the whole set back to PepBoys and demanding my money back. The Napa bit (SER2305) was used to torque the remaining 7 flywheel bolts and all of the axle bolts (they're 10mm on the MKIV cars) and it looked like it had barely been used afterwards.


      Gary


      Modified by VgRt6 at 7:08 AM 3-11-2005


    2. 01-25-2004 12:53 AM #2
      Hey Gary,

      You can also get these bits from Snap-on and Hazet. The Hazet Ones are german and of the finest quality.

      Jamie


    3. 01-25-2004 10:08 AM #3
      Of course there are other (and probably better) sources for the bits. I posted this mainly because Napa is close to many of us US Vortexers (do they have Napa in Canada?). The Napa bits are very cheap and are more than enough quality to stretch-torque flywheel bolts.

      I'd love to have Snap-on bits, but not all of us make the big bucks up there in the Great White North. Eh.

      I've never heard of Hazet tools. Where can you get them and how expensive are they?


      Gary


    4. 01-25-2004 05:16 PM #4
      Quote, originally posted by VgRt6 »
      Of course there are other (and probably better) sources for the bits. I posted this mainly because Napa is close to many of us US Vortexers (do they have Napa in Canada?). The Napa bits are very cheap and are more than enough quality to stretch-torque flywheel bolts.

      I'd love to have Snap-on bits, but not all of us make the big bucks up there in the Great White North. Eh.

      I've never heard of Hazet tools. Where can you get them and how expensive are they?


      Gary

      Just thought I'd mention the Snap-on bits for all of those Snap-On Addicts (the Hazets are actually better), Not to mention that almost everyone has access to a Snap-On Tools Truck. As for Hazet, Many of VW's specialty tools are made by Hazet. You can find Hazet at http://www.hazet-na.com I couldn't find the bits on the american site but they are called Internal serration or XZN bits. They are available in 3/8 or 1/2" drive short or long as well as just the bits themselves.

      By the way we do have NAPA in Canada.

      As for the Big Bucks thing, it is there for anyone who wants to make the journey up North. Big time oportunity for anyone, especially for someone trained in one of the many engineering fields.

      Jamie





      Modified by 5.0 eater at 3:44 PM 1-25-2004


    5. 01-25-2004 06:41 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by 5.0 eater »


      I want a 10mm, 1/2" drive triple square socket like this! The Napa one works great, but since it's very long, and even longer when put inside a 1/2" socket, it's somewhat of a pain to keep the wrench straight when stretch-torquing bolts. A nice short socket that would fit directly ona torque or normal wrench would be perfect!

      How much is one of these bad boys?


      Gary


    6. 01-25-2004 06:52 PM #6
      Not sure on price.

      I can get them up here at Acklands Grainger or Century sales. I can price them if you want.

      Jamie


    7. 01-25-2004 07:57 PM #7
      I don't think hazet quality is superior. I have $40,000 in hand a pnuematic tools. Hazet is my only source for poly-drive (newer cyl head bolts) I break that tool every time I remove a head. I keep three on me at all times so that I can finish the job.

    8. 01-25-2004 11:24 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by ScubaVr6 »
      I don't think hazet quality is superior. I have $40,000 in hand a pnuematic tools. Hazet is my only source for poly-drive (newer cyl head bolts) I break that tool every time I remove a head. I keep three on me at all times so that I can finish the job.

      Hard to argue with a Mechanic but personally I find the Hazet stuff the best.

      Thanks for the $0.2

      Jamie


    9. 01-25-2004 11:51 PM #9
      Hazet makes some sick specialty tools that save me a lot of time, but if that specialty tool was duplicated by snap-on, mac, or matco, then I'd go with them.

    10. Moderator yellowslc's Avatar
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      01-26-2004 08:41 AM #10
      snap on... why? they are the only ones that make a long pattern 8mm triple square.. makes life easy when doing cv joints..

      R


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      01-26-2004 09:30 AM #11
      Quote, originally posted by ScubaVr6 »
      I don't think hazet quality is superior. I have $40,000 in hand a pnuematic tools. Hazet is my only source for poly-drive (newer cyl head bolts) I break that tool every time I remove a head. I keep three on me at all times so that I can finish the job.

      Really? never had a problem with the same one, used multiple times.

      But honestly for me when it comes to specialty tools like this, snap-on or hazet. Dicking around with something else is a waste of time.


    12. Member speed51133!'s Avatar
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      01-26-2004 09:53 AM #12
      i got mine at pep boys for like 10$. included like 4mm 6mm 8mm 10mm and 12mm.

      its also long pattern. each "one" is like 4 inches long.


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      01-26-2004 11:47 AM #13
      I had loaned my Snap-ons to a freind when I needed one bad ,to pull a head. Went To Auto Zone @7pm on a sunday ,and low and behold they had a set of 6-12mm triples for 14.99. Kinda a pain to use as you need to use a 1/2" socket to drive them,but they worked. Twisted the bit a little torqueing it back down,but "lifetime warr",so picked up a new set on the next trip,good for trips/junkyarding,rather loose a cheapo than a 20+$ snap-on.

    14. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      01-26-2004 03:50 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by VgRt6 »

      Whatever you do, do NOT buy the Lisle set of triple square bits that PepBoys sells ($15 for 6,8,10 and 12mm). I made the mistake of purchasing this set in order to remove and reinstall my flywheel and axle bolts during a recent timing chain adventure. The teeth on 10mm bit from this set were deformed so badly after torquing just 3 of 10 flywheel bolts that it was completely unusable. I ended up taking the whole set back to PepBoys and demanding my money back. The Napa bit (K-D 2305) was used to torque the remaining 7 flywheel bolts and all of the axle bolts (they're 10mm on the MKIV cars) and it looked like it had barely been used afterwards.

      I'm going to have to flat out disagree with this set of statements. I used the PepBoys Lisle triple square bits to replace an axle on my jetta. They are a tight fit, but after lightly tapping them into the bolt, they worked GREAT. Maybe yours were defective or used improperly, but I would definitely recommend them to someone looking to buy this type of tool. Maybe if I was a mechanic and used them alot would I invest the cash in a very expensive set of these.


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      01-26-2004 04:58 PM #15
      i tried using a lisle triple square to remove axles. it stripped on the first bolt. Mighty crappy.


      Modified by splitmeister at 10:03 PM 1-26-2004

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      01-26-2004 05:22 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by splitmeister »
      i tried using a lisle triple square to remove axles. it stripped on the first bolt. Mighty crappy.


      Modified by splitmeister at 10:03 PM 1-26-2004

      Hmm. Worked fine for me to get the stock headbolts out, with no obvious deformations.

      2012 TT-RS in Suzuka Gray

    17. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      01-26-2004 05:35 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by splitmeister »
      i tried using a lisle triple square to remove axles. it stripped on the first bolt. Mighty crappy.

      Did you just put them into the bolt by hand and start loosening? I found that before I used a small hammer to tap the bits into the bolt, they started to strip a little. After I drove them in far enough everything was awsome. I think the Lisle bits are a little larger than they state, like 10.2mm instead of exactly 10mm.


    18. 01-26-2004 06:23 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by 6cylVWguy »

      I'm going to have to flat out disagree with this set of statements. I used the PepBoys Lisle triple square bits to replace an axle on my jetta. They are a tight fit, but after lightly tapping them into the bolt, they worked GREAT. Maybe yours were defective or used improperly, but I would definitely recommend them to someone looking to buy this type of tool. Maybe if I was a mechanic and used them alot would I invest the cash in a very expensive set of these.


      If the harshest service the tool will see is torquing a few bolts to 50-75 ft-lbs, then I have to agree with you. The Lisle set is good enough for this. On the other hand, if the tool is going to be used for any work that requires very high torques and/or stretching bolts, like during head or flywheel installations, then the Lisle tool can't handle it. Torquing 3 flywheel bolts to 44 ft-lbs +1/4 turn absolutely destroyed the bit. Luckily I had another car to drive to Napa to get the K-D bit or I would have been up the creek.

      FYI, the Napa bit is also a long bit, ~3-4" in length, so it's good for CV joint work.


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      01-26-2004 06:30 PM #19
      Sorry to say this, but I use almost nothing but snap-on and some matco and craftsman tools in my tool box at work. Yes, they are expensive but having a life time guarantee and the best r&d to a product is always nice to have. By a cheaper product one day causing you to strip a bolt or something like that, and you'll be sry that you didnt go with a better product. Its happend to me on several occasions.
      PM me for welding and fabrication in the capital area. Located just north of Baltimore, MD.

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      01-27-2004 04:00 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by vr6chris »
      Sorry to say this, but I use almost nothing but snap-on and some matco and craftsman tools in my tool box at work. Yes, they are expensive but having a life time guarantee and the best r&d to a product is always nice to have. By a cheaper product one day causing you to strip a bolt or something like that, and you'll be sry that you didnt go with a better product. Its happend to me on several occasions.

      exactly.

      If you use a tool, and due to its poor design, you strip a bolt, was it worth it? If you spend more on tools, they not only last longer, but they do the intended job correctly the first time, so you dont wind up wasting time trying to removed damaged bolts.

      I used the lisle tool correctly, to loosen an axle bolt (which yes, sometimes can be difficult, especially if theyve been on forever) and it just flattened all the teeth on the tool. This was using it by hand.

      On the other hand, i've used the snap-ons bits ive had hundreds of times, with and without air. I've broken one over a period of using them close to 5 years now.

      You get what you pay for, and id rather pay a little more now than the hassle of the chisel later.


    21. 02-09-2005 02:01 PM #21
      I just noticed that metalnerd sells triple square bits as well. I bought their rear brake tool and found it to be of great quality. No clue about these bits though... anyone heard of Kraftwerks?

      http://shop.metalnerd.com/index.cgi?code=3&cat=5


      Modified by alchu at 2:15 PM 2-9-2005


    22. 02-09-2005 02:18 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by yellowslc »
      snap on... why? they are the only ones that make a long pattern 8mm triple square.. makes life easy when doing cv joints..

      R

      how long is long? i got my SK set for 50 bucks, snap on would have been around 90...



    23. 02-09-2005 02:43 PM #23
      Sure, most if not all of us would love to have tool boxes full of only Snap-On grade tools, but for most people, that is not cost effective. There's no way I'm spending that kind of money for a few bolts. If I needed to use it everyday, then there would be no question that I'd buy the expensive tools.

      The point of this post was not to claim that the Napa bits were the greatest. It was just a heads up that the Napa bits are actually pretty good quality bits at a great price - more than sufficient for the weekend do-it-yourselfer.

      Gary


    24. 02-09-2005 04:52 PM #24
      Good point there VG. I actually bought my set at Autozone. They are also a nation wide parts store, and the set of 6mm, 8mm, 10mm, and 12mm was only 12 bucks. They were just the shanks though, and you would use a 1/2 socket amd ratchet to power them. Regardless, they have a lifetime warranty, and removed all my head bolts, and the flywheel bolts without a sweat. They seem to be good quality...and still look new. Anywho...I understand the need for high priced tools (i have thousands invested in my tools) when you use them daily...but for something like this, where they get used once or twice a year...I'll put my hard earned money elsewhere.

    25. Member bhtooefr's Avatar
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      06-29-2006 11:31 AM #25
      This thread deserves a bump.

      Just because it helped me a LOT.


    26. 02-15-2007 07:56 AM #26
      Agree. This thread deserves a free bump for some great info.

    27. Member Tire_Marx's Avatar
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      02-15-2007 01:37 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by Soviet B3 »
      They were just the shanks though, and you would use a 1/2 socket amd ratchet to power them.

      those work fine for headbolts and flywheel bolts, but make me scream and throw tools across the garage when it comes time to do a cv joint

      2002 Lexus IS300 - Trac off is just Japanese for sideways on

    28. Member B3M3nkey's Avatar
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      02-16-2007 08:22 AM #28
      Quote, originally posted by VgRt6 »

      Whatever you do, do NOT buy the Lisle set of triple square bits that PepBoys sells ($15 for 6, 8, 10 and 12mm). I made the mistake of purchasing this set in order to remove and reinstall my flywheel and axle bolts during a recent timing chain adventure. The teeth on 10mm bit from this set were deformed so badly after torquing just 3 of 10 flywheel bolts that it was completely unusable. I ended up taking the whole set back to PepBoys and demanding my money back. The Napa bit (SER2305) was used to torque the remaining 7 flywheel bolts and all of the axle bolts (they're 10mm on the MKIV cars) and it looked like it had barely been used afterwards.


      x2
      Years ago, (1995ish) my first introduction to Lisle was removing rotors from hubs on a Izuzu 14,000 lb straight truck. With a 6ft breaker they snapped like they were made of chalk, went to a auto parts store bought another, Snapped it again! Went to "ACE Hardware" (closest alternative) bought their brand bit. It's still in my tool box to-date. I have used Lisle on the removal of VR6 headbolts with same feeble results. My Tool Box is filled with Craftsman and Snap-on, but it is an "Ace" brand torx bit, and yes I do mean torx, that successfully removes the most stubborn "triplesquare" headbolt.

      Lisle.....PFFFT, I put that set in my wifes toolbox.



      Modified by B3M3nkey at 8:51 AM 2-17-2007

    29. 02-16-2007 09:35 AM #29
      I bought the ASTRO Pneumatics triple-square bit set from SJ and they've held up for CV and head bolts. The SK set pictured in the post above looks pretty nice though!


      http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/ap7805.html


      Modified by z33k at 8:36 AM 2-16-2007


    30. 02-16-2007 12:03 PM #30
      That's a pretty sweet set at a great price! How's the quality?

    31. 02-16-2007 06:58 PM #31
      Quote, originally posted by porn8069 »

      how long is long? i got my SK set for 50 bucks, snap on would have been around 90...


      I ran into this issue with CV boots where the boot was pushing off the big part of the socket and you could not square it up and torque it. I was thinking that one that is at least 2" to 3" would be good there.

      W.T.B. - Kinetic Motorsport FMIC front-mount intercooler for MK3 OBD-1 VR6 GTI/Jetta.
      Must include all original parts, and be in excellent condition.
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-vr6-jetta-gti

    32. 02-16-2007 07:13 PM #32
      Nice looking set. I just broke down and bought the Triple Squares from AutoZone -- 6, 8, 10, 12mm for a total of $16.

      My reasoning:
      1) Cheap but decent quality -- can easily buy another set w/o feeling robbed
      2) Available at Autozone -- obviously prevalent anywhere in the US
      3) I really don't want to have to open a charge account with any specailty tool company with their billion dollar tools
      4) The correct tool for the job that others have used -- I tried pulling a head from the junkyard last week with the WRONG tools ... and let's just say ... I had to leave the head stripped the tool (torx head) on the last bolt (stripped the bolt too)

      Quote, originally posted by z33k »
      I bought the ASTRO Pneumatics triple-square bit set from SJ and they've held up for CV and head bolts. The SK set pictured in the post above looks pretty nice though!


      http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/ap7805.html


      Modified by z33k at 8:36 AM 2-16-2007


    33. 02-16-2007 07:16 PM #33
      FWIW, I found that removing the ABA requires something longer than this to reach the bolt head and remain in the ratchet.

      Quote, originally posted by VgRt6 »


      I want a 10mm, 1/2" drive triple square socket like this! The Napa one works great, but since it's very long, and even longer when put inside a 1/2" socket, it's somewhat of a pain to keep the wrench straight when stretch-torquing bolts. A nice short socket that would fit directly ona torque or normal wrench would be perfect!

      How much is one of these bad boys?


      Gary


    34. 02-17-2007 10:02 AM #34
      Quote, originally posted by porn8069 »

      how long is long? i got my SK set for 50 bucks, snap on would have been around 90...


      I bought these and the 8mm stripped doing my axles.
      Switched to a Snap-on and haven't had another problem since.


    35. 02-19-2007 12:14 AM #35
      For a source of high quality XZN bits (or other tools for that matter) take a look at Elora, German tool manufacturer, pricing is certainly better than Snap-On:

      http://www.bloomertool.com/XZNbits.html


      Simeon T


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