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    Thread: Secondary Air Injection Pump - Incorrect flow detected - Anybody have this DTC pop up before?

    1. 01-30-2004 09:48 AM #1
      I have a 96 VR6. Everytime I clear the code, the CEL stays off for a few days then comes back on with same DTC. The car runs fine.

    2. Member
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      01-30-2004 02:33 PM #2
      Yup I have this. Does your car stay at normal operating temp? I find that if it's idling in the driveway, it will get to normal temp and stay there. upon driving, however, it dips to 180 or so and wont come back up.
      Additionally, there is a sound like avacuume leak once it gets to 180 or so that sounds as if it's coming from behind the speedo cluster.

      Because of the fact that it doesn't stay up in temp, I'm wondering if it's not a thermostat issue in addition to the air pump.
      At anyrate, there is a solenoid that cost $10 that could be the problem. You need to test the solenoid to determine this.


    3. Member Shikaroka's Avatar
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      01-30-2004 02:37 PM #3
      Pretty commen problem. Alot of times it's just a leak in one of the hoses.


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      01-30-2004 03:53 PM #4
      My car had this error code also. The hose that runs underneath the intake manifold had a crack in it right where it makes the tight bend and connects to the control valve. I cut about 1/4 inch off of the old hose and reattached it to the control valve and I have not had the error code since...... knock on wood.

    5. 01-30-2004 04:09 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by FowVay »
      My car had this error code also. The hose that runs underneath the intake manifold had a crack in it right where it makes the tight bend and connects to the control valve. I cut about 1/4 inch off of the old hose and reattached it to the control valve and I have not had the error code since...... knock on wood.

      yep that's it. It's P0 code 410 or 411 right? Mine was solved by replacing that same exact line. it's a PITA, but will fix the problem. Do yourself a favor and replace it with high temp silicone tubing instead of regular rubber.


    6. 01-30-2004 04:19 PM #6
      My car also has this problem.....
      Did you guys have to remove the intake manifold to get at it?

      Thanks in advance!


    7. 01-31-2004 03:47 PM #7
      thanks for all the suggestions. i have to check the hoses. It's annoying seeing that yellow light all the time. Where is the solenoid? The thermostat was replaced a month ago by dealer ( what a rip off close too 400 ) Thats another story. Still having the same problem with new thermostat.

    8. 01-31-2004 04:12 PM #8
      My yellow light sstays on now.. (cause one of my hoses are shot...) I covered it up with a Koni suspension emblem! hehe!! No more CEL light!
      I can still see a small glow of it at night!

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      01-31-2004 04:31 PM #9
      Can anyone take a picture of the hose that causes this problem and post it? I replaced a hose from the airbox to the intake manifold today that had a cut in it, but I'm not seeing any other damaged hoses.

      There is a green plastic tubing that goes along the firewall to someplace on the drivers fender, can anyone tell me what this is for? I couldn't see a decent picture of it in the Bentley.


    10. 01-31-2004 06:36 PM #10
      the hose i need to replace goes under the intake manifold from the drivers side. I will try to post a picture later if no one else can!

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      01-31-2004 06:38 PM #11
      I'll try to take a picture tomorrow and mail it to you since I don't know how to post pictures on here.

      You don't have to remove the intake manifold.. but it does take some jiggling and figgling of the big airpump thingy to get in there.


    12. 01-31-2004 09:18 PM #12
      you can host your picture here!

      save the picture on your computer than go to that page...
      select browse... find the picture... then click open
      then click upload....
      Next you can highlight the IMG tag hit the copy button and paste it directly in the areas here where you type your text!!


      I hope that helps??



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      02-01-2004 04:02 AM #13
      The grey hose with the yellow o-ring is the one that was bad.

      Look to the right of the oil dip stick and you'll see the grey hose placement on the engine.




      Modified by FowVay at 4:33 AM 2-1-2004


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      02-01-2004 04:13 AM #14
      Sorry, I posted the image from the Bentley's manual but it wouldn't publish here for some reason. It is a excellent diagram of the placement of the components. If you want to browse here you can look at it:
      http://www.pifiu.com/vortex/up...y.jpg

      Otherwise, here's a picture of the front of the engine. Look at the grey hose directly under the intake manifold (mines grey, yours will be black). It attaches to the little black valve called the secondary air injection solenoid. You have to remove three bolts that hold the big black motor (secondary air injection pump motor) in place and you have to unfasten the air hoses that connect to the motor in two places. You'll see them once you start the project. Once the motor is removed you can get your hand under the manifold and unhook the hose from the combination valve.

      I have many more pictures but they're not really of much use except to see my beautifullllll VR6 engine

      Thank you very much for the tip on posting pictures here. I just got a digital camera for Christmas and now I can bore everyone to death.... haha

      Modified by FowVay at 4:19 AM 2-1-2004


      Modified by FowVay at 4:28 AM 2-1-2004


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      02-01-2004 10:20 AM #15
      Thanks for the pics guys. I'll have a poke around and see if I can find something similar to that hose on my engine

    16. 02-01-2004 01:36 PM #16
      great pics!!!!!

    17. 02-09-2004 12:01 PM #17
      Great pictures. I had the same problem and it was a cinch to fix. Cost me just a few bucks to replace the vacuum hose. The only glitch I had was that I removed the wrong hex bolts. My bad. The bolts I should have unscrewd should have been the 6mm, and not the 5mm. Once I got the 6mm off, I could access the vacuum hose at the combination valve. It was a tight squeeze without removing the manifold but I was able to feel for it . Total time spend was around an hour with the goof I made. So, I think if I were to do it again, it would have probably taken me no more than half an hour. Thanks again!

    18. 02-09-2004 08:46 PM #18
      Ok does anyone know how do remove the combo valve????? I think mine needs cleaned!! or replaced!
      part number 021 131 101a

      Thanks!!


    19. 04-22-2004 12:33 PM #19
      Did any of you hear a sound like a vacuum cleaner coming from the engine associated with this code? My car is throwing the same exact code but with a sound like a jet engine or a vacuum cleaner.

    20. 04-22-2004 02:26 PM #20
      The vacuum cleaner sound is normal, it's the air pump coming on. it pumps air from your air box into your head on cold starts to help the fuel burn more completely/cleanly.

      Normally your cat. cleans your exhaust, but it needs to be warm to operate properly. This system only runs during cold starts if the collant temp. is below a certain level. OBD-II runs diagnostics on this system periodically, and if an "incorrect flow" is detected, it will trip the light.


    21. 04-22-2004 06:53 PM #21
      went to the dealer and had then do a once over for my car... they told me sumthing about DTC for 2nd air pump$524 fuse blown $.50 the guy told me it was for emmisions do i really need it?

    22. Member Shikaroka's Avatar
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      04-23-2004 03:01 PM #22
      You don't really need it, unless your state does emmision testing or if your state's inspection would fail for having the CEL on.

    23. 04-23-2004 08:48 PM #23
      In case you were wondering, I have some oil on the top silver plastic over of the VR6 like on yours jsut below the oil cap (mine was in the exact same spot). Mine was caused by oil seeping from the heatpad/soundproofing mat on the underside of the hood. The pervious owner had left the oil cap off once and the oil got in the mat.

      Using plenty of simple green and the the pressure sprayer at the car wash (not too close! it will tear it apart if too much forceful spray is applied) the oil "leak" went away.

      Nice clean engine bay.

      Abe


    24. 04-23-2004 09:36 PM #24
      i just got the code, i am not fu*king with it, dealer wants 524 for just the part, its NOT a neccessary thing, and who in the world doesnt know someone who knows someone who can hook em up with a inspection sticker !

    25. 04-24-2004 10:39 AM #25
      i passed emissions and inspections with that thing broken i guess i doesnt do much

    26. 04-24-2004 06:50 PM #26
      I recently had the same problem. Stealership wanted $700 to fix the Sec. Air Pump. What BS. My CEL came on again yesterday. Went to Autozone and yes it was 0411. They cleared it and it's cool now. I need to replace all the hoses and that will definitelt help.

    27. 04-26-2004 02:33 PM #27
      I've been looking at options to fix the CEL... dealership wanted $180 in labor, $600 for the pump, $300 for the combivalve. BUT... the other day I looked under the hood and the air hose running from the pump to the combivalve had completely fallen off. Cracked so bad it actually broke into 3 pieces. So I ordered the new part (geez, $10 hose on national back order... this probably breaks a lot) and hopefully once I replace that hose the CEL wont come back. That hose also explains the vacuum cleaner noise. The noise is the pump just blowing air into the engine compartment. I'm going to replace all the other vacuum hoses around there just in case, and hopefully this fixes the problem.

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      05-02-2004 12:12 PM #28
      This doesn't apply to Mr. AlbuquerqueGLX since he has a obvious disconnected hose -

      I would be willing to bet that the combi valve and the pump are OK. They get used so little that it's nearly impossible to wear them out.

      If you want to blow $30 then go the the dealership and buy a foot (12") of vacuum line. I got mine from vwparts.com but I bought a few meters because I work on several cars that always need rubber hose replaced.

      Go to the parts counter of a VW dealership and buy the secondary air injection solenoid valve. It's the little black box that the hose from the combi valve plugs into. These things routinely go bad because they get moisture in them from the intake manifold. The part number is 191 906 283 A.

      I'd be willing to bet that this cures your problems. The hose replacement is the most difficult but it can be managed. The solenoid valve replacement is a 30 second task.

      It's insane when the dealerships want to charge you for components that most likely aren't bad.



      Modified by FowVay at 12:17 PM 5-2-2004


    29. 05-24-2006 01:07 AM #29
      i am having the same problem do you think you could email me the pictures cuz they are not showing up on the website...i have a 1.8t 2000 passat

    30. 08-03-2007 12:09 PM #30
      could the bad sol cause me to throw a running rich (long term trim) code?? my gas mileage just got really poor also

    31. 07-12-2009 01:11 AM #31
      hey for some reason i cant see the pictures could you email them to me ? thanks

    32. 07-12-2009 01:42 AM #32
      can someone repost the pictures there not showing for some reason

    33. Member tnunamaker's Avatar
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      07-12-2009 11:46 PM #33
      Dude- the original thread is 5 years old... talk about back from the dead!

      Here's everything you need to know about SAI: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1995162

      Make sure you check the strip fuse on the relay before you go crazy with combi valves, pumps, and hoses... sometimes it's just that simple...


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