We will first need you to address how much money you have for this venture and what you intend to accomplish.
Sorry about that, I've had some **** going on lately that forced me to give in to my brother's demands to trade him my Rabbit for his 92 GTI. Since I've done this and won't have any money in the near future because of medical bills, I will be unable to undertake any big projects.
Oh well, maybe my brother will come by and ask the same question and you'll at him.
Modified by sirdUbsalot at 5:03 AM 11-16-2004
Quote, originally posted by the12for12 » A.IGNITION
However, the MSD has a nice built in feature that is not found while reading the instruction manual. By reversing the magnetic leads, the MSD can give you a nice timing advance curve. You simply set the ignition at you want at idle (stock is around 10-15 degrees BTDC). As you blimp the throttle, you will find that the timing jumps to around 20-35 degrees BTDC. ,
I found this in a search, and I thought I would comment.
I don't know for sure what is going on inside the MSD box to cause this, but I have a guess. If my guess is right, this probably isn't the best idea for controlling advance.
As the trigger wheel aproaches the sensor, a positive voltage is generated. As the trigger nears the point where it is closest to the sensor, the voltage rapidly drops and goes negative. (This is the event you want to capture) As the wheel moves away from the sensor, the negative voltage increases as it tends toward the steady state of about 0V.
If you switch the wires, then you get a voltage response that goes negative, jumps positive, then settles to zero. The MSD unit is probably triggered by a negative going zero crossing. If you have it connected correctly, this corresponds to the point where the trigger wheel is closest. This part of the voltage output curve is very steep and doesn't vary much with RPM -- so the output from the detection circuit is pretty stable.
Switching the wires means that the detection circuit will *not* trigger on the nice crisp transition because it will be a "positive going" transition (starts negative, and goes positive). Instead the circuit will trigger sometime later as the voltage settles back down to near zero. Unfortunately this part of the curve both varies with RPM and isn't very steep. The "varies with RPM" part is what makes it advance the timing. The fact that it isn't a steep curve means that slight variations (including the temperature of the electronics, external "noise", etc.) can have a significant effect on when the circuit will trigger.
This may be a bit far afield for a carb FAQ, but I thought I would add it. Keep in mind that this is again just my guess based on my understanding of how the ignition system works. And while I'm pretty confident that switching the polarity of the wires is *not* a standard operating mode -- if it works, and it's consistent..go for it. Just be aware of potential problems (I would expect inconsistent advance values)
First off, if you have a fixed dizzy, you can't advance the timing from the MSD. First off, measuring timing with a timing light is near impossible with an MSD because of the multi-spark to measure the static timing at idle. With a fixed dizzy, I just set my timing above 4k rpm where the multi-spark function of the MSD box doesn't occur. The multispark feature of the box is only below 3000 or something IIRC. I'm not quite sure what is being seen to make the statement that the MSD actually provides a timing curve.
alrite folks would you please be able to give a bit of info on pierburg 2e2,s as mine is playing up. My car is a golf mk2 1.6 driver and i would like to know if a weber 32/34 dmtl is a direct replacement. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanx in advance
That's the ignitor. That little black thing right under the rain tray on the driver's side.
Wire the dizzy to the ignitor, then wire in the MSD between the ignitor and the coil. You need the ignitor because the MSD cannot trigger off the OEM hall sender in the dizzy. Then you will likely need a MSD 8980 timing computer to give your car some low rpm retard. Set the mechanical timing to 30-32 deg BTDC, and then the MSD 8980 will retard it 20 degrees at idle so that it starts and runs easier.
OK,.... I tried the diagram over and over, not missing a thing and still NO SPARK!!!!! If I get rid of the MSD and just wire the ignition module, coil, and distributor, will that work??? and how do I do it? This seemed like it would be simple but still no spark!!! There must be a way!
Back to the FAQ Is there a good source to buy a Carter 4070 pump? I can't seem to find one around here. Also I need to buy parts for my DHLA's, maybe someone could post up some links for good sources for Weber and Dellorto carb parts. Thanks, lots of good info here.
Modified by Flintstone at 9:04 PM 10-31-2005
I am very new to carbs. I have a 92 jetta 1.8 digifant. I want to put in a 2.0 with weber 40s that I have. so the way I understand this is that I dont use the fuel pump that is underneath the car on the passenger side. I just use the pre pump in the gas tank for fuel to the webers? Thanks for any help
Quote, originally posted by RabbitsKin » What do the terms DCOE and IDF mean, when talking about Webers?
"Weber nomenclature is chaos"
The prefix is the size of the throttle plate, a 40DCOE has a 40mm plate.
The letters refe,r in italian, to the general type of the carburetor;
DC means doppio corpo or double throat
V/O means verticale/orizzontale vertical or horizontal respectively
I (in IDA) seems to mean invertito or inverted, although there are no updraft webers, the IDA is a downdraft
less consistent single letter designations:
E Die-cast carburetor
F Ford or Ferrari? application
V Weber with a power valve
A Water-operated automatic choke
An example of an exception, the 40DCOE in later Alfa use is neither die-cast or equipped with an electric choke. The E indicates a trapezoid mounting bolt pattern instead of the rectangular one of the DCO.
There may be three, as well as two throats, in a Weber IDA, and there is no choke at all.
Any number after the letters denotes a variation of the basic type, to date there are 10 known variations of the 45DCOE.
Braden, Pat. Weber Carburetors. HPBooks, 1988
I have some stuff around the shop and I'm trying to make a running vehicle out of it.
engine - low mileage 1.7L
carb - dellorto 40 drla downdraft.
After reading the FAQ I gathered that I should stick to a factory ignition module/hall sensor distributor. But then I have the vacuum advance just always open. Will the advance still be okay?
Also..are there any choke options available for the drla besides the gas pedal?
I just ordered a carb rebuild kit and the dellorto techbook from cb peformance so I will probably answer some of these questions shortly.
edit: 1 more question. I know the12for12 recommends having a carter p4070 electric fuel pump but will the stock mechanical fuel pump be adequate? I'm not looking for power...just to make it a driver.
Modified by vdubspeed at 2:41 PM 3-5-2006
Built > Bought
I have an '88 1.8 16v KR engine in my rocco, with ITB's (and CIS, i know...) and i still have the std ignition system. Hall-sensor, ignition box. I connected my vacuum advance to the inlet by 4 little plugs. I now have it running on 21 degrees timing, 44° max.
If i set the timing to 8 or 10 degrees (as supposed) my engine wont start at cold.
Anyone have a suggestion?
GOt the info myself:
Pierce Manifold and Pierce's waterneck.
Nice pieces. Great guys to do business with.
so i get rid of the factory pump under the passenger side then put the carter 4070 pump in its place and keep the in take transfer pump and fueling for carbs is done?
Mike Davis Jr.
PM me for collision repair/custom paint and body work in the Midwest
I don't have a regulator with my carter pump setup and it runs....... still fine tuning, but it runs.
Edited post: i have since installed a Holly regulator and valve. made no difference.
Modified by Big CADDY at 11:42 PM 11-10-2006
hey guys i have a 83 16v swap with 45 dcoe's the problem is this i try to sync them and either im doing it wrong or im a dumbass? one carb sux 7 and the other 10 can some 1 tell me how 2 adjust them. oh yeah im running 180corrector, f2 e tubes 165 mains.
Quote, originally posted by jaydubr » hey guys i have a 83 16v swap with 45 dcoe's the problem is this i try to sync them and either im doing it wrong or im a dumbass? one carb sux 7 and the other 10 can some 1 tell me how 2 adjust them. oh yeah im running 180corrector, f2 e tubes 165 mains.
Any symtoms other then different air flow readings? missing, spitting?
My 16v swap seems to pull more air on the left (facing the car) carb so I set the main idle speed screw all the way out then use the inspection holes to line up the right carb using the sync adjustment screw then adjust the main speed screw and go from there.
Wiring the Factory tachometer
You can pull off the tach output signal when using an MSD 6AL, depending on the year of the car and the function of the tach, wiring the output strait into the tach's source wire will work, like on older rabbits.
For voltage driven tachs like mine for example, 92 GTI 16v CE2 cluster, MSD PN 8920 Tach Adapter wires in easy and works great.