im about to start my carb set up and still cant find straight answer for Fuel pump install im going the carter route and my question is..
-- do i remove the oem pump ?? if i do so how is the carter pump gonna get fuel if is all the way in the front...
Please help me with this
Where is your existing pump?
You should have room back by the tank for a pump. I would put it as far away as possible because they are noisey.
maybe even some rubber mounts.
The CIS uses a static timing advance setting at the distributor. The Knock sensor made the adjustments but that was only to retard the timing when it senses a knock.
Your diagram has no timing advance or retard.
the little coupe that could...
fondly remembered: 1980 diesel rabbit, 1985 faux-harlequin, 1990 jetta, 2000 v6 passat wagon, 2003 1.8t passat sedan
Okay this will be a long post. I recently got a 84 gti with a 16v 2l swap. Now this engine ran carbs from 2 owners ago the previous owner was going to run carbs again and did not have the time for it. A friend picked it up for parts and in bought it from him. Now I picked up a set of weber dcoe 40 with the manifold adapter there is Holley fuel reg along with a Holley fuel pump which I was deciding on changing over to a carter. Now I don't know what carbs he ran but he had both outlet valves hooked up on the reg and nothing to the return along with a hookup for a icm. There is nothing for the spark advance that i can see but he has a Bosch coil that is wired up to the icm and then over to the distributor. The water neck doesn't look like its in the way but I will replace that. Also for the brake booster what do I do about the hook up since there will be no vacuum. I have attached pics the best I have please help and if you have questions I will answer the best I can
Last edited by InfamousAdam; 07-25-2012 at 01:09 AM.
The way he has it set up will work fine. There is no need for a return to the tank with such low pressure. The ICM will work fine like he has it as well. You just aren't getting the full advantage of a curve.. I actually carried that ICM setup in my glove box as a backup for my MSD. THe water neck looks pretty good. I'd pull it off and check it over for cracks and use it. The brake booster hookup can be pulled from one of the runners like #4. Drill and tap it and use a barbed insert to connect the hose.
here is a pic I found. Notice the AN connector. IF you are looking for bling grab a chrome toilet filler line.
Last edited by InfamousAdam; 07-25-2012 at 02:35 PM.
Plug the extra line or stick a pressue gauge on it.
Don't do a vacuum distributor since there isn't a proper vacuum
Get the car running properly with a static advance of like 8-12*. Then move on to that part.
alright i have question about wiring.
i have a 8v rabbit with a single weber dcoe set up with a msd 6al, msd coil and msd timing control.
can i get rid of the hall effect distributor and icm by getting a points distributor with a Pertronix Ignition conversion to simplify the wiring even further
I modded a lower intake manifold on my 9a 16v 2.0 and got r1 carbs to just clear the hood, but just.
Any advice on throttle cable?
I'm thinking of stealing the lines off my old BMX (never used them any way)
Here's where I'm at.
My 89' GTI I swaped a 2.0 16v 9a into it.
I ran it on the 1.8 PL's CIS-e system with some sucess but the fuel distributor was always an issue as was the injectors, I had a o2 guage hooked up and it would jump arround more than a rabbit at a dog show.
I bought Mikuni 40's off a yamaha r1. Cut the lower intake manifold down to about an inch from where the molding injector cups was about an inch away from the end of the runner. Now the carbs were alligned narrower than the runners but with good 3" 5 ply sylicon 2" to 1 3/4" reducers and a little trimming I got a manifold that I have relative faith in. And was able to shut the hood with the cone air filter just tuching the hood when closed.
The old injector cups removed a 1/2" to 3/8" NPT steel hardware store variety reducer bushing was threaded into. a 3/8 thread to 1/2" barbed fitting threaded into that. From there 1/2" fuel hose and 1/2" L and T fittings were configured and compiled in series and leading to the vaccume port for the brake booster, while also alowing for access to each individual port for dynamic vaccume syncronization of the throttle plates.
Fueling is: in-tank transfer pump to 3/8 (AN-6) fuel line to clear glass fuel filter to holly 140 GPH low pressure pump to a T fitting , 1 to low pressure regulator set at 3.5 psi leading to large canister style fuel filter (to act as a fuel pulse damper) them to the carbs themselves, other line to cheep high pressure regulator set at arround 10 psi leading to return line to the fuel tank.
Fuel vent line from the charcol is run to a vaccum port placed in the top of the cone air filter along with the catch can vent for the crankcase and the various vents for the carbs.
Ignition is to be the stock knock sensor & electronics of the cis-e system. Am I hereing this right that there is no advance on this system? I'll be consitering a vaccume advance dizzy of so.
What car can I steal one from. Volvo turbo?
Need more info on an initial tune as carbs to manifold installing is an off the car endevor with my manifold to carb alignment. I want to get pretty close to start. No cat stock 1.8 2 1/8" exhaust mufflers, Stock 9a engine, R1 carbs on a short runner. Looking for midrange / low end over peak hp for now.
Also throttle cable help. A part # would rock. I'm about to take brake cables off BMX and try it.
Am I missing anything??
I want to pull the choke from the dash. Farm and Home tractor choke cable was my first thought.
I have one question that I just cant seam to find the answer to from anyone, everything Ive found provides indirect and sketchy answers so if someone can please just answer me this would be awesome. I have Dellorto 45 carbs that I plan on running on a 16v motor in my mk2 jetta and I will be running the oem fuel pump. So far I have: Carbs, manifold, fuel pressure regulator, oem IMC and a basic harness made to run it with a vacuum advanced dizzy however Im still missing a saab dizzy. So my question is can I just run it with what I have just basic and mechanical, with out all the MSD stuff?? And the saab distributor that I need to get is it off of a turbo or non turbo car?? Thanks in advance
Been doing allot of reading and hope I now have everything to do my swap..
Going to the R1 carbs on my 91 16v 2.0 9a..
Going with the Carter pump with the Holley bypass fpr, for ignition I have the CB Performance "Black Box" going to use the stock distributor and coil, manifold is tapped for vacuum. That's the major stuff, going to go with aftermarket tach and the Black Box has wiring for that, btw, this will be in my 82 caddy. Doing mechanical oil,alt and temp gauges in the center console.
I'm not getting in a hurry doing a mild "freshing" of the 16v before the install as well as all new external items, water pump,ect.. Head will be port matched with Techtonics 268 cams. 5 spd tranny, should be a fun little ride!!!
Any tips on a clutch kit, would like to go with a Stage 2 but I'm sure a stock would be just fine..places to buy??
Pans on the ground......
Weber DCOE experts please; I'm trying to jet my carbs so suggestions. I hope this helps others as it is very difficult to find anything on 8 valves with effect on drivability/performance. Here's my progress/trial and error write-up:-
Car is 1989 1.8GL UK right hand drive (brake servo in the way of cylinder 1 intake).
Facet 60104 fuel pump (inherited, not by choice).
Malpassi 3-way fuel regulator with return, guage set to 1.5psi, reasonably steady control.
Mangoletsi manifold, ported/port matched.
Massively ported GU head with old inlet manifold coolant feed blocked off. Exhaust/inlet on same side (rear of engine).
Standard valves, springs, hydraulic lifters, seats standard (throats have been widened/blended).
Camshaft is Newman 272 duration, 10.8mm? lift
Timing/ignition is standard GU distributor, vac advance connected to cyl 4 on Mangoletsi manifold with big green ball (from Pierburg 2E2) as vac pulse compensator.
Timing set to standard flywheel mark with vac disconnected from distributor at idle (is 18 degrees BTDC?).
Twin DCOE 40s only identification on them is '3K', possibly Toyota? They have 3 progression holes and originally had 30mm chokes.
My starting point, more or less book guide values.
Air Correctors: 185 (i.e, + 50 over mains)
Idles: 50 F9
Pump Jets (in carb already) : 35 (small?).
What did it drive like? Very jerky on acceleration, almost like random missfire very scarey. Setting the idle screws, they were only 0.75 turns out (rich?).
Problems arise on transition about 2500rpm. Then no power and quiet running after 3000rpm, at wide open throttle to 4000rpm, too scared to go beyond 4000rpm. Otherwise was a pleasant drive around town.
I assumed the idle jets were too rich and the mains were way too lean. I already had some 180 air correctors from the old carb setup. I plonked these in to see if it helped richen the main circuit. The difference was barely noticable, but did make some small improvement (less jerking/missfire/smoother).
Next step I tried was 145 mains, I bought 125s as backup in case I was wrong too . This made a drastic change to the whole setup especially at 3000-5000rpm where there was noticably more power, yay! However, drivability low down took a nose dive (stalling) and there was still alot of bucking/jerking.
Next I had already some 45 F8s from the old carb setup so swapped these in. Significant smoother town driving, however is still jerky at slow throttle transitioning to wide open throttle. No noticable difference from 3000-5000rpm. Wide open throttle sounds lean to me as in there isn't a roar of power, more like the sound of drawing air. Idle screws now set about 1 full turn out on each barrel. The 45 F8 has a massive air hole versus the 50 F9 so is leaner.
Air Correctors: 180
Idles: 45 F8
Pump Jets (in carb already) : 35 (small?).
Guys, what is my next move? Here is my personal jet 'arsenal' to play with:-
Chokes: 30, 34
Idles: 50 F9, 45 F8
Mains: 115, 125, 135, 145
Airs: 180, 185, 200
Pump Jets: 35
My gut feeling is that the mains can go richer still. +10 on the mains improved alot of the mid-range/top end. I ordered in some 160 air correctors, but some div sent me 1x160 and 3 x 100s, I could get a set of drill-bits I suppose and solder? Save me buying more jets.
Is it worth up-sizing the pump jets? These are more expensive parts.
Will try 4psi thanks. I moved to the Malpassi regulator as the Sytec Pro-Flow (with a dial) pressure was all over the place, especially as my suspension is pretty solid.
If you can find out your jetting setup that would be awesome! It will give me some grounding as to which way to head.
I think the pulsations of the Facet pump/rocking of 4 pot engine play havoc on the fuel level in the carbs, to the point that you end up with the "bucking" I'm getting. Just a theory. Will look for a "volume" pump.
Could try moving the timing about, if so what am I looking for as regards noises to avoid (pinking). Want me to post the timing at each rpm I'm currently getting?
Ok SHES ALIVE!
Finally bit the bullet and removed the brake servo to make way for trumpet #1. Saw a few guys running without them and figured the breaks couldn't get that much worse...ok they do, you don't appreciate the extra effort from it until its gone . Practically had to remove the whole front subframe to tilt the engine far enough forward to get the servo outta there.
However, what a monster, and the sound too! 3000rpm to 4000 is rapid, I used to have a Lotus esprit S3, about 160 bhp? Must be near to that easily. Feels like it runs out of puff about 4500rpm, so maybe richer mains...currently at 145 and airs are at 200.
It was the foam filter. Blocking #1 when at full throttle with the venturi jiggling around inside that barrel.
Last edited by funkymonkeybooze; 08-03-2014 at 12:21 PM.