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    Thread: Installed my lower 4 point stress bar and WHAT A DIFFERENCE.....

    1. Member Black_cabbie's Avatar
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      05-05-2004 07:06 PM #1
      Such a lovely day today (Sunday) so I decided to install my newly acquired 4 point bar.
      First part..... Lift the car....

      Identify the points....


      Hmmmm.... Problem... Need to drill!

      8mm Drill and some Inox screws did the trick!

      Job well done [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      The car feels more rigid on the road. It really makes a huge difference. Bigger difference than my previous 2 point bar.
      I would definitely recommend this bar to anyone who hasn't. A lot of the body vibrations and twisting feel like they are gone.
      Now, do I need a rear bar? there is already some reinforcement between the rear towers.....



      Modified by Black_cabbie at 9:33 PM 9-11-2005
      Chip Tuning for a living @ www.microchips-tuning.com

    2. Member exboy99's Avatar
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      05-05-2004 07:36 PM #2
      that is also sweeEEEEET
      and it's nice to hear that it is
      a mod worth doing!

    3. 05-05-2004 10:15 PM #3
      we have a eurosport rear bar and it definaetly makes a difference in rear-end wobble over the bumps. at the limit the car is more balanced than running just a front tower bar.

    4. Member 1fastdub's Avatar
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      05-06-2004 10:05 AM #4
      [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] can't wait till I fork out the cash for one.
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      05-06-2004 10:07 AM #5
      [QUOTE=Black_cabbie]Such a lovely day today (Sunday) so I decided to install my newly acquired 4 point bar.
      sorry but that is a 2 point stock 16V bar and not a 4 point.
      a four point will bolt on the rear table/swaybar bracket.

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      05-06-2004 10:15 AM #6

      Uh, aren't the rear arms supposed to go ABOVE the sheetmetal?????
      Previous rides in purchase order (iirc): '83 GTI, '97 Jetta GLX, '86 GTI, '82 Caddy, '81 Caddy, '99 Golf TDI, '82 ITB Rabbit, '00 Jetta GLS VR6, 84 Rabbit Convertible, '82 Caddy, '87 Cabriolet, '83 GTI, '87 Fox Wagon, '81 Caddy, '96 Golf GL, '02 Jetta Wagon GL, '89 Vanagon Westfalia, '02 Jetta TDI, '99 Eurovan Westfalia Weekender...

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      05-06-2004 10:19 AM #7
      Quote, originally posted by scirocco16valve »
      [QUOTE=Black_cabbie] sorry but that is a 2 point stock 16V bar and not a 4 point.
      a four point will bolt on the rear table/swaybar bracket.

      Count the mounting points. Yep, four of them.
      It is a stock 16v-type subframe, and there are others from Eurosport and Autotech that have the rear two points attaching to the rear control arm mounts, but a "2-point" bar just goes accross the two front control arm mounts.
      Previous rides in purchase order (iirc): '83 GTI, '97 Jetta GLX, '86 GTI, '82 Caddy, '81 Caddy, '99 Golf TDI, '82 ITB Rabbit, '00 Jetta GLS VR6, 84 Rabbit Convertible, '82 Caddy, '87 Cabriolet, '83 GTI, '87 Fox Wagon, '81 Caddy, '96 Golf GL, '02 Jetta Wagon GL, '89 Vanagon Westfalia, '02 Jetta TDI, '99 Eurovan Westfalia Weekender...

    8. 05-06-2004 12:16 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by a1junkie »
      Uh, aren't the rear arms supposed to go ABOVE the sheetmetal?????

      yep

    9. Member Black_cabbie's Avatar
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      05-06-2004 03:08 PM #9
      I thought that the bar didn't look ok under the metal.... But them again I would have to bent it a lot to get it over the sheetmetal.
      And the fact that the marks on it from the previous cabrio, showed that the bar was installed under the sheetmetal.
      Are you sure it is supposed to go over?
      Chip Tuning for a living @ www.microchips-tuning.com

    10. Member Cabby-Blitz's Avatar
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      05-06-2004 06:06 PM #10
      So you had a 2-point before and noticed a difference with this one?
      I have a 2-point and really dont remember feeling much of a difference with it.

    11. Member Black_cabbie's Avatar
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      05-06-2004 06:16 PM #11
      I do a lot of highway driving, and I noticed that when I corner at speeds arround 140 the front feels more secure. Maybe because the 2 point bar pushes the other arm while hard cornering.... I don't know.
      Maybe its because I drove the car with no bar at all for one month and got used to it.
      As for the below or above issue.......
      ARE YOU GUYS SURE IT IS SUPPOSED TO GO ABOVE THE SHEETMETAL?
      Chip Tuning for a living @ www.microchips-tuning.com

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      05-06-2004 08:46 PM #12
      here is how a real four point brace looks like

      when they say point they mean it holds the tables from moving by the two front points and the two points rear table bushing bracket. Thus the name 4 point.
      what you allege is a 4 point bar is infact a two point bar with 4 mounting holes.

    13. 05-07-2004 12:47 AM #13
      NICE!! i might have to make that

    14. Member Black_cabbie's Avatar
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      05-07-2004 01:05 AM #14
      Quote, originally posted by scirocco16valve »
      here is how a real four point brace looks like

      when they say point they mean it holds the tables from moving by the two front points and the two points rear table bushing bracket. Thus the name 4 point.
      what you allege is a 4 point bar is infact a two point bar with 4 mounting holes.

      Interesting..... what make is this?
      Chip Tuning for a living @ www.microchips-tuning.com

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      05-07-2004 07:26 AM #15
      Quote, originally posted by Black_cabbie »
      Interesting..... what make is this?

      It is an AUTOTECH and it prevents the the lower tables from moving at all from all 4 Pivot point thus the name 4 point lower subframe connector. Yours only covers the two front points and not the two rear points which come under stress as well when cornering hard.

    16. 05-07-2004 07:34 AM #16
      eurosport sells a 4-point K frame - which is a replica of the OEM 'rocco unit - and they also have a frame similar to that autotech unit. just FYI.
      since the K frame is attached at 4 points its commonly referred to as a 4-point bar so i dont think we should argue semantics - what black_cabbie needs to know is the correct mounting position for the bar he has
      im quite sure i had it above the metal on my golf. but that was years ago. maybe somebody with a 16v rocco could take pics...

      Modified by dino01 at 7:35 AM 5-7-2004


      Modified by dino01 at 11:06 AM 5-7-2004

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      05-07-2004 09:51 AM #17
      Quote, originally posted by Black_cabbie »
      I thought that the bar didn't look ok under the metal.... But them again I would have to bent it a lot to get it over the sheetmetal.
      Are you sure it is supposed to go over?

      If you bolt it tight the way you have it, it's going to crush that vertical lip flat. The L-shape of that lip is for rigidity - flat=floppy=bad.
      You shouldn't have to bend anything to get it in the right way- just unbolt all four points, slide the rear points back into place, and then lift the front to bolt it back together.
      If your bar is bent so that this doesn't work, I'm guessing that the PO bent it. Are those hammer marks I see on the bottom of it?
      Mine is bolted on top. Maybe that's not right, but don't crush that lip until you know for sure.
      Four Points:
      http://www.concept1.ca/H%20suspension.htm
      http://www.knightsperformance....3.htm

      Two Points:
      http://www.performance-cafe.co...d=450
      Previous rides in purchase order (iirc): '83 GTI, '97 Jetta GLX, '86 GTI, '82 Caddy, '81 Caddy, '99 Golf TDI, '82 ITB Rabbit, '00 Jetta GLS VR6, 84 Rabbit Convertible, '82 Caddy, '87 Cabriolet, '83 GTI, '87 Fox Wagon, '81 Caddy, '96 Golf GL, '02 Jetta Wagon GL, '89 Vanagon Westfalia, '02 Jetta TDI, '99 Eurovan Westfalia Weekender...

    18. 05-08-2004 11:30 AM #18
      Ok, I have never installed one of these but my common sense is telling me that that should be mounted ABOVE the frame not below. If it's mounted below, that means the two peices of material cannot meet therefore giving the stress bar "leverage" against the mounting bolt and mounting tab. (greater pounds per square inch. similar to how much weight a bridge or flooring would hold-- the measured pressure) That means the bar, at that point, is really only as strong as that bolt or tab. To illustrate this take a new pencil and hold it at both ends and snap it in half. then take one of the halfs and try to break it again. then try to break one of those halves. it gets harder to do with each break because the leverage on against the pencil is reduced each time. if the two adjoining pieces of material are held together (with no gap in between) the leverage required to break the bolt most likely will be be far more than what the motion of the car can supply. The result?-- no broken bolt or mounting tab.

    19. Member exboy99's Avatar
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      05-08-2004 05:55 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by scirocco16valve »
      here is how a real four point brace looks like

      when they say point they mean it holds the tables from moving by the two front points and the two points rear table bushing bracket. Thus the name 4 point.
      what you allege is a 4 point bar is infact a two point bar with 4 mounting holes.

      that is a nice piece!
      ....yeah I'm saving up.

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      05-08-2004 09:06 PM #20
      well this bar enhanced the front end alot more than the stock K bar i had.
      it was like night and day with poly bushing.

    21. Member sehaare's Avatar
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      05-08-2004 11:26 PM #21
      Quote, originally posted by Black_cabbie »
      I thought that the bar didn't look ok under the metal.... But them again I would have to bent it a lot to get it over the sheetmetal.
      And the fact that the marks on it from the previous cabrio, showed that the bar was installed under the sheetmetal.
      Are you sure it is supposed to go over?

      I've got the exact same bar and it fits easily above the sheet metal. I've always heard it referred to as a 4-point as well.
      So thats one vote for above
      and
      one vote for 4-point.
      Steve
      Enjoy every sandwich - Warren Zevon

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      05-08-2004 11:37 PM #22
      what are the four points for the lower control arms or subframe?
      each lower control arm pivots in two points (front and rear) so left and right will make 4 points. What the bar does is try to reinforce these four points from deviating in any direction from the forces of hard cornering. The K bar only reinforces the front of the left and right lower control arms and the bolts that fasten to the subframe doesn;t reinforce any additional points and therefore call a 2 point.

    23. Member exboy99's Avatar
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      05-09-2004 01:33 AM #23
      I get it
      I get it
      i'm tired.... whew

    24. Member Black_cabbie's Avatar
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      05-09-2004 04:55 AM #24
      Once again you've been very helpfull all of you!
      I am making my coffee right now and will go out to change it in a few mins.
      THANKS GUYS!
      Chip Tuning for a living @ www.microchips-tuning.com

    25. 05-09-2004 08:08 AM #25
      let it go dude, this is referred to as a 4-point bar, ok? otherwsie what should i look for on eurosportacc.com or eBay "2 point bar that mounts with 4 bolts". dont think ill get many search hits from that.
      not arguing which is better just telling you what MOST people call the K bar.

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