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    Thread: MkIV Camber plate list

    1. Banned
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      11-02-2004 02:51 PM #276
      Quote, originally posted by enginerd »
      I would not suspect the bump stop is a problem. If you dont have the peg in the hole perfectly, you will get what is shown in the above picture. An angle on the upper piece. The cars sheetmetal perch gets clamped by the two spc pieces like a sandwhich. if the post isn't in the hole perfect, then you get an angle, and the sandwhich only clamps on maybe a third of the way around. Drive like this, or torque down real hard and something bends, and your plates are screwed. Even if you correct it later, the damage is done, and something bent. Now it can't clamp properly, and it can move around.
      Ill get a better pic tonight, but it should sit perfectly flush.

      Ok so when I installed the top plates, I triple checked that the pegs were aligned with the holes before torquing down. Its just that when I start to tighten the top nut, the plate starts slanting. I think a) my top plate is malformed and b) the peg is too short to engage the hole correctly.
      I think I'll be calling SPC to see if they can source me new top plates. Besides wearing the rubber down a bit I don't think this will kill the bottom part of the plates. I wonder if this can be corrected by adding a washer?


      Modified by phatvw at 11:59 AM 11-2-2004

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      11-02-2004 03:25 PM #277
      I just sent an email to SPC outlining the issues folks are having with these plates. I mentioned that I could supply pictures of the problems. Please IM me with links to your pictures if you would like me to send them to SPC. I will only send pictures for which I have permission.
      Thanks,
      Dan



      Modified by phatvw at 12:27 PM 11-2-2004

    3. Member RichB's Avatar
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      11-02-2004 03:50 PM #278
      Guys... thanks much for the additional info! [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      I just spent some time futzing with my passenger side SPC camber kit to see what was up (i.e why it was squeeking).
      Here is the passenger side and driver side SPC top plates on the car before I started. You can see the passenger side one is not right, but driver side one looks good and flush.

      (I've purposely posted the images side by side so they are easy to compare.)
      Removing the passenger side top plate clearly showed the problem:

      Having a feeling that the passenger side top plate was most definetely not right, I took a hammer and one of my 3/8" extensions (used the round open end as a punch kind of) and wacked on the bottom side of the top plate until things returned to what I thought was correct.

      I then checked the lower nut on the passenger side SPC. It was a little bit loose. I adjusted the camber plate a bit (it was a little off from full negative camber) and tightened the lower nut back up. I torqued it to a little higher than spec (48ftlbs as opposed to 44ftlbs) and added a drop of lock-tite to keep things tight.
      I then took my "modified" top plate and re-installed it and torqued to spec (30ftlbs). The result is that the passeneger side top plate looks like the driver side one (it is sitting nice and flush):

      Weather is crappy here today, so I only took the car down the block and back and in and out of the driveway a few times (the bump/dip at the bottom of the driveway usually causes squeeking). No noise so far, so I think I may have it licked, but a more extended drive will be needed to see if it holds.



      Modified by RichB at 3:52 PM 11-2-2004
      Happy Motoring,
      RichB
      2003 VW GTI 1.8T 5spd (A Few Mods)
      2008 Scion xB Daily Driver (Mostly Stock)

    4. Member RichB's Avatar
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      11-02-2004 04:06 PM #279
      Quote, originally posted by phatvw »
      I just sent an email to SPC outlining the issues folks are having with these plates. I mentioned that I could supply pictures of the problems. Please IM me with links to your pictures if you would like me to send them to SPC. I will only send pictures for which I have permission.

      Dan... feel free to use my pics from my posting above if it is of any help.
      FWIW... I think as well that the post/pin on the top plate needs to be a bit longer. Even with things tightened to spec, I doubt the pin is fully seated in the camber mating camber plate square opening. (ideally, I would like to see square peg that will more snugly fit into the square opening on the top plate or maybe instead of the peg, just leave a round hole there on the top plate and put a bolt through the hole with a locknut and nut on the bottom... should be enough space for it to fit and would be stronger I would think).
      Happy Motoring,
      RichB
      2003 VW GTI 1.8T 5spd (A Few Mods)
      2008 Scion xB Daily Driver (Mostly Stock)

    5. 11-02-2004 04:07 PM #280

      great post.. i have the same problem as you can see in the pics in one of the posts above.. i will try that tonight..
      one thing i havent figured out yet, is how you are lining up the pegs.. i eye ball it the best i can, but the peg is not long enough until the nut compresses the rubber, but at that point you cant rotate the top cap anymore (not as though i know which way it is off anyway)..
      i though putting a small chamber (1/16") on the end of the peg would help it slide in if it were close, but it apparently hasnt helped..

    6. 11-02-2004 04:07 PM #281
      aren't your torque specs completely backwards? the inner nut should have 30 and the outer should have more.
      and enginerd, i was always careful with the peg on my plates and in fact, have had better luck eliminating the groaning and movement of the plates since i knocked the pegs out. go figure....

    7. Member RichB's Avatar
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      11-02-2004 04:13 PM #282
      Quote, originally posted by gelatin »
      aren't your torque specs completely backwards? the inner nut should have 30 and the outer should have more.

      I'm looking at the SPC instructions right now... "tighten upper bearing retaining nut to 44ftlbs (60nm). Reinstall cover plate making sure pin engages in square hole. Install top nut and torque to 30ftlbs (40nm)"
      Happy Motoring,
      RichB
      2003 VW GTI 1.8T 5spd (A Few Mods)
      2008 Scion xB Daily Driver (Mostly Stock)

    8. Member AutoXMan's Avatar
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      11-02-2004 04:28 PM #283
      Nice post, Rich. I'll check tonight and see if I have a skewed mount as well.

    9. Member RichB's Avatar
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      11-02-2004 04:28 PM #284
      Quote, originally posted by fritzner »
      one thing i havent figured out yet, is how you are lining up the pegs.. i eye ball it the best i can, but the peg is not long enough until the nut compresses the rubber, but at that point you cant rotate the top cap anymore (not as though i know which way it is off anyway)..

      I do eyeball/guess its placement first. For mine, the pin is just long enough so that if I put some weight on the top plate to compress the rubber I could still manage to rotate it back and forth a bit with the top nut just a bit loose/barely snug. I could then feel either side of the hole as the pin would make contact with it (the pin is smaller than the hole by a fair amount). By feel I center the top plate and then tighten the top nut.
      Happy Motoring,
      RichB
      2003 VW GTI 1.8T 5spd (A Few Mods)
      2008 Scion xB Daily Driver (Mostly Stock)

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      11-02-2004 04:34 PM #285
      Richb, nice pics!
      That is EXACTLY what my top plate looks like. I considered hammering it into shape, but I think I will wait to hear what SPC has to say about it first.

    11. 11-02-2004 04:36 PM #286
      Those pics show exactly the problem. The pin was not inserted into the hole, and then tightened. Now the pin gets loaded, and the upper perch does not get clamped right. Nice fix though.
      Here is my technique.
      eyeball the pin in about the right area of the square hole. Get the nut started.
      turn the top plate back and forth over the area where the square hole is.
      make a 1/4 turn, and turn the top plate back and forth.
      turn another 1/4 turn and repeat. Eventually you feel a positive stop on the top plate when turning clockwise/counter clockwise
      when you get to this point tightent the nut up.
      Patience is a virtue. No impact guns, no clumsy beer filled friends helping you out.
      And another thing there are 2, repeat 2 square holes. One in the washer part, ane one in the lower body. They need to be lined up when you put on the first lower nut, or you will be scrwed before you start the upper part. When tightening the lower nut, insert a 3/8 exstension in the hole and it will keep the washer part from spinning.
      For a design change they could extend both the pin, and the square hole depth to improve the design.



      Modified by enginerd at 4:40 PM 11-2-2004

    12. 11-02-2004 04:37 PM #287
      Quote, originally posted by RichB »
      I'm looking at the SPC instructions right now... "tighten upper bearing retaining nut to 44ftlbs (60nm). Reinstall cover plate making sure pin engages in square hole. Install top nut and torque to 30ftlbs (40nm)"

      ...then phatvw's post on page 8 has the specs backwards...

    13. Member RichB's Avatar
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      11-02-2004 04:50 PM #288
      Quote, originally posted by gelatin »
      ...then phatvw's post on page 8 has the specs backwards...

      Oops! We're all only human! Maybe he can edit his post to prevent any future confusion.
      BTW, For those who do not have a set of hardcopy install instructions, here is a link to a page on SPC's website with the install instructions for the VW camber kit:
      http://www.specprod.com/PROD_D...81340
      Happy Motoring,
      RichB
      2003 VW GTI 1.8T 5spd (A Few Mods)
      2008 Scion xB Daily Driver (Mostly Stock)

    14. 11-02-2004 04:56 PM #289
      do you notice that #6 means "cover" in the text of number nine. ...

      ...also, the stock spec torque for the #5 nut is 44lbs. anyone have a guess as to why would it be 30 for these plates? ...

      Modified by gelatin at 1:58 PM 11-2-2004

      ...and why would i want more torque on the bearing nut? that will just cause it to bind easier, right?
      ...i got the noises when i had 44lbs on that nut, i have no noise at ~30lbs...


      Modified by gelatin at 2:01 PM 11-2-2004

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      11-02-2004 05:18 PM #290
      Quote, originally posted by gelatin »
      ...then phatvw's post on page 8 has the specs backwards...

      My bad. Just corrected it.

      Quote, originally posted by gelatin »
      do you notice that #6 means "cover" in the text of number nine. ...

      ...also, the stock spec torque for the #5 nut is 44lbs. anyone have a guess as to why would it be 30 for these plates? ...
      ...and why would i want more torque on the bearing nut? that will just cause it to bind easier, right?
      ...i got the noises when i had 44lbs on that nut, i have no noise at ~30lbs...

      I imagine that these plates are thicker than the stock mount and if you tighten too much you'll crack the strut bearing. I think the torque ratings are just recommendations and may not work for all different struts.


      Modified by phatvw at 2:21 PM 11-2-2004

    16. 11-02-2004 06:04 PM #291
      FYI- Due to a change in my sales status, SPC has now lowered my costs to where I can have the same prices nopi, and my site will have the new prices changed on the prosuspension.com site shortly. Group buys will be available as they are for any item I offer
      N

    17. 11-02-2004 06:20 PM #292
      Quote, originally posted by phatvw »
      I imagine that these plates are thicker than the stock mount and if you tighten too much you'll crack the strut bearing. I think the torque ratings are just recommendations and may not work for all different struts.

      ...the nut that would be causing stress on the bearing is the one at 44lbs, not the one at 30lbs. the top nut is just a pinch, it only puts stress between the bearing nut and the top "cover"(item #4 in the instructions), but no stress on the bearing...
      ...but i do think you're right about maybe having to fiddle a bit with different struts...

    18. Member RichB's Avatar
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      11-02-2004 07:02 PM #293
      Quote, originally posted by gelatin »
      do you notice that #6 means "cover" in the text of number nine. ...
      ...also, the stock spec torque for the #5 nut is 44lbs. anyone have a guess as to why would it be 30 for these plates? ...
      ...and why would i want more torque on the bearing nut? that will just cause it to bind easier, right?
      ...i got the noises when i had 44lbs on that nut, i have no noise at ~30lbs...

      Good questions.... my bearing nut which was loose (not anywhere near 30ftlbs, much less 44ftlbs) was on the side that was squeeking (I have not had any problems with groaning or other noises - just the squeek).
      With the top nut, given that it is not centered on the SPC top plate/cover (loading is not very evenly distributed when the top nut is tightened) and the metal of the SPC top plate does not appear to be very thick/strong, if it was torqued more than they reccomend that it could be too much stress for the top plate/cover. (hence the deformation of my top plate??? who knows.)
      Happy Motoring,
      RichB
      2003 VW GTI 1.8T 5spd (A Few Mods)
      2008 Scion xB Daily Driver (Mostly Stock)

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      11-02-2004 08:18 PM #294
      Quote, originally posted by RichB »
      With the top nut, given that it is not centered on the SPC top plate/cover (loading is not very evenly distributed when the top nut is tightened) and the metal of the SPC top plate does not appear to be very thick/strong, if it was torqued more than they reccomend that it could be too much stress for the top plate/cover. (hence the deformation of my top plate??? who knows.)

      That is exactly what I was thinking. Either they need to make the top plate stronger, or the peg a little longer, or both. Under-torquing the nuts isn't satisfactory IMO.
      This plate is designed to work on both the Auti TT and the MkIV. I wonder if the Audi TT strut tower is shallower than ours and that is why the peg is made so short - you definitely don't want that peg bumping up against the bottom of the square hole...



      Modified by phatvw at 5:20 PM 11-2-2004

    20. Member laurent's Avatar
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      11-02-2004 08:50 PM #295
      Alright, problem solved. Hammered the sucker back into shape and then had a friend hold the cap in place while I slowly tightened the nut. By slowly I mean in minute increments to make sure that the cap wouldn't twist.
      The only problem I really ran into was the welds of the pin breaking as I got to carried away wailing on it...
      Rewelded it with three spots and it's firmly in place now, absolutely squeak free.
      Just a hint, make sure that the two square holes line up EXACTLY. When I put the strut back together the first time I didn't pay close enough attention and the holes were slightly off. When the holes are of chances are that you won't get the peg inserted all the way as the outer nut tightens, and then when you apply some torque it will slip out.



      Modified by laurent at 9:26 AM 11-3-2004

    21. 11-03-2004 08:17 AM #296
      Quote, originally posted by laurent »
      Alright, problem solved. Hammered the sucker back into shape and then had a friend hold the cap in place while I slowly tightened the nut. By slowly I mean in minute increments to make sure that the cap wouldn't twist.
      The only problem I really ran into was the welds of the ping breaking as I got to carried away wailing on the plate...
      Rewelded it with three spots and it's firmly in place now, absolutely squeak free.
      Just a hint, make sure that the two square holes line up EXACTLY. When I put the strut back together the first time I didn't pay close enough attention and the holes were slightly off. When the holes are of chances are that you won't get the peg inserted all the way as the outer nut tightens, and then when you apply some torque it will slip out.

      Modified by laurent at 8:52 PM 11-2-2004

      To hold the square holes in alignment, a 3/8 Drive exstension fits right in there. Put one in there when you tighten the lower nut. It is also helpful to rotate the assembly to adjust the camber by putting a ratchet on there and using the square hole to rotate the thing.

    22. Member laurent's Avatar
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      11-03-2004 10:02 AM #297
      Quote, originally posted by enginerd »
      To hold the square holes in alignment, a 3/8 Drive exstension fits right in there. Put one in there when you tighten the lower nut. It is also helpful to rotate the assembly to adjust the camber by putting a ratchet on there and using the square hole to rotate the thing.

      [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] Worked for me.

    23. Member Wayne92SLC's Avatar
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      11-03-2004 10:17 AM #298
      Quote, originally posted by laurent »
      [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] Worked for me.

      Me too.
      However, I don't think the pin is long enough to engage the square hole. My top caps sit flat and I have no noises (yet).
      -Wayne

    24. 11-03-2004 10:35 AM #299
      Quote, originally posted by Wayne92SLC »
      Me too.
      However, I don't think the pin is long enough to engage the square hole. My top caps sit flat and I have no noises (yet).
      -Wayne

      The pin is most defintely long enough to engage the square hole.

    25. Member Wayne92SLC's Avatar
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      11-03-2004 11:19 AM #300
      I musta got really lucky installing the top plates then.
      I assembled the units on the bench beforehand and made note of the distances, however, when assembled, the strut tower spaces things out to the point where bottom of the pin is at least a 1/16" away from engaging the slightest amount. I'll take pictures and document distances with a caliper to make my point. I'm not making this stuff up though--maybe I got a different or defective run.
      -Wayne

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