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    Thread: P0411 Code

    1. 06-29-2004 10:01 AM #1
      Took my car to Autozone for CEL. One code popped; P0411. In the Bentley manual the description is Sec.Air Inj. Sys. Incorrect Flow Detected.

      Cryptically sounds like MAF issue. Anyone have a better idea?


    2. Member pipes's Avatar
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      06-29-2004 12:52 PM #2
      sounds like MAFS, but as a quick test, check all (4 on the 1.8T) vacuum lines. They can save you $300+ as they are cheaper to replace than MAFS.

    3. 06-29-2004 07:41 PM #3
      Yeah I had this same problem code 0411 it happened twice I fixed the first hose that is visable in the front top of the engine as soon as you open the hood (1.8t) then the second time it happened it was a hose in the rear closer to the passenger side on some brass colored valve. The vac hoses seem to get all crunchy and just break. But for a few bucks as good as new!

    4. Member ytqm's Avatar
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      06-30-2004 08:14 AM #4
      Usually the codes for the MAF are "long term trim fuel......" (It sounds like your Secondary Air pump is failing. This could also be caused by a broken air hose or vacuum line to the secondary air pump. If its the pump, they run about 455.00. Make sure the check the operation of the combi-valve when they replace it, thats what caused mine to fail.
      2000 Passat 1.8t 5spd. Black/Black Leather. Original owner, purchased 12/09
      365,000 miles as of 4/1/2013

    5. Member ls16v's Avatar
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      07-02-2004 01:13 AM #5
      hey i work on passat this a emisson problem
      your not going fast unless you see flashing lights

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...n-Build-thread

    6. 07-21-2004 10:51 PM #6
      As mentioned earlier, check the vacuum lines first and foremost. Check to see if they're frayed, loose, cracked, whatever. Doing this, you stand to save a HUGE load of money.

      The MAF . . . I don't think that has a great deal to do with the sec air sys. I mean it has a little but not the greatest effect on it. There are tons of other possible culprits way way before the MAF.

      Check to see if your Sec. air pump is working, or if the relay has gone bad. Another POSSIBLE (but somewhat unlikely) cause is the combi-valve.


    7. 07-21-2004 10:59 PM #7
      Would not have anything to do with the maf sensor.

      The secondary air injection system is an air pump that injects air
      into the exhaust on COLD startup to warm up the cats and reduce
      hydrocarbons out the exhaust when the engine is cold.

      Vacuum lines, combi valve, the pump itself.

      The maf can not trigger a low secondary air flow.

      Brett
      2003 GLX


    8. Member 90 GT-G60's Avatar
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      07-23-2004 08:03 PM #8
      Just got the exact same error code from my local AutoZone, on my wife's car.

      I am also experiencing surging at idle. When this happened before, I was instructed to clean the throttle body and after that the surging cleared up.

      But based on the fault code and the possible issue with vacuum lines, I suppose that a vacuum leak would cause the surging as well.

      Since I am not familiar with this car at all. Can someone tell me where the injection pump is located and possible the fuse or relay location?

      Thanks in advance!

      "I may look like I am doing nothing, but at the cellular level, I'm quite busy!"

      Need a quality DSG service for under $200 in North Jersey-NE Pa? Contact hevster1@yahoo.com.

    9. 07-24-2004 12:52 AM #9
      It wont do any good to disable the pump.
      The pump is under the car, close to one of the front wheel wells
      I think.

      You need a haynes or bently manual.

      A broken vacuum line can cause the unstable idle.

      You can find the pump by tracing the air intake to the pump.
      It goes to the air filter box, and draws in clean air from the filtered
      side, a 1 inch (roughly) thick hose.

      The combi valve can fail, allowing exhaust into the pump, which
      has plastic parts....

      I dont know, but the combi valve may be vacuum operated
      (Your vacuum leak)


      Brett
      2003 GLX


    10. Member vath's Avatar
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      07-24-2004 06:14 PM #10
      I just got this code aswell: I have Vag-Com and it says this:

      EVAP Emission Control Sys: Incorrect Flow

      Bentley Repair Manual (Passat 1998-2004) on CD says this:

      Tank ventilation system throughput faulty
      - Check Evaporative Emission (EVAP) canister purge regulator valve
      - Check hoses and connecting pipes from fuel tank to throttle valve control module:

      I have a large loss of power above 3000rpm, it just doesn't pull anymore. I'm looking at the service manual now to figure all this out.....

      2009 GTI 2.0TSI CBFA 6spd, APR2, APR Downpipe, BSH RACE, NGK-PFR7Q plugs, VAGCOM,

    11. Member vath's Avatar
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      07-24-2004 07:27 PM #11
      well i was just looking over the engine and found that it was 1.5 quarts low on oil... could this be from my "incorrect emmision flow" or visa versa??

      make that 2 quarts low


      Modified by vath at 7:17 PM 7-24-2004

      2009 GTI 2.0TSI CBFA 6spd, APR2, APR Downpipe, BSH RACE, NGK-PFR7Q plugs, VAGCOM,

    12. 07-24-2004 10:25 PM #12
      No.
      You should get no alarm from being low on oil until the
      ol pressure light comes on (to late).

      The evap system is different from the secondary air injection.
      The evap system catches gas fumes from the gas tank and stores them in a charcoal canister till the engine is started and warmed up,
      then the purge valve opens and pulls a bit of air through
      the charcoal canister to extract the gas fumes and burn them in the engine.
      This prevents gas fumes from escaping from the car and causing
      smog.

      Things that can trigger the fault are anything that impacts the system:
      Vacuum leak,
      Gas tank leak,
      Vacuum lines pinched or broken,
      Loose gas cap,
      Bad gas cap,
      Bad purge valve,
      Plugged up vent lines to gas tank (from over filling it).

      There is a reason they tell you NOT to top off the gas tank, but only fill it till the pump pops off, liquid gas gets into the evap system and plugs it up.

      Brett
      2003 GLX


    13. 05-17-2008 03:09 PM #13
      I have two codes the p0411 and the p0420. I'm smelling gas in the car. I have a 03 1.8t jetta. I was hoping someone could link me to a picture of where the hoses are. I am not sure exactly where they are located. Why would I be smelling gas? I was hoping to check the air pump but how can I tell if it's functioning properly. Any help would be much appreciated. Is there a fuse that might be blown for the air pump? The combi valve I don't think I'd be able to check if it was functioning. So I was hoping to narrow it down. The other code I believe it has something to do with my 02 sensors. I might have to also replace my cat. Can anyone also recommend a cat?

    14. 05-17-2008 09:29 PM #14
      I fix that changing the purge valve on my V6

    15. Member Mad Chef's Avatar
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      07-19-2008 04:47 PM #15
      i got this same code on my vr6 this morning, anychance it could be from me stuffing my hid ballast in the front end of my engine? i remember pushing some hoses around to make room.

    16. Member tryin2vw's Avatar
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      07-19-2008 05:00 PM #16
      Check the vacuum hoses all around, check the combi valves, make sure the SAI hoses are not broken.

    17. Member PACOMTZ's Avatar
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      05-11-2009 03:41 AM #17
      I hope this can help
      http://wiki.ross-tech.com/inde...01041


      Modified by PACOMTZ at 11:43 PM 5-10-2009

    18. 05-13-2009 10:06 AM #18
      PURGE VALVE, PURGE VALVE, PURGE VALVE!!!

      I had the same error time and time again. Took the car into VW a number of times to only be told I am not tightening my gass cap enough. But sure enough, 71k away from the dealership the light would come on....

      Then I decided to do my own research!

      Gas cap was a trouble shooting issue...

      But when I bought that 45 dollar purge valve and took 10 mins to swap it with the old one (top of the air box on the V6)....jackpot, cell light no more.....


    19. 05-01-2010 08:59 PM #19
      I got this code last week and then some other odd things started happening today... thought id give a little bit of background first though in case its connected...

      2000 Jetta 1.8T
      Feburary i replaced the valve cover gasket, tensioner gasket, air/fuel filter, and 2 overrun cutoff valves... while doing this i broke an EGR valve and replaced it adn all my vaccum hoses as well.

      Last week my wife reports the CEL... she continues to drive it all week 130 miles a day commuting. Today i take the care to local shop and had code ran/cleared... its the P0411 code... i start the car and drive it 200-300ft to the grocery store next door and its surging...? hasnt been doing that... only now post code clearing... ???... grocery shop... come out... car wont start. No turning over, no sounds... just nothing. Electronics are all functioning... not sure whats wrong. I head next door and ask same dude to come and check my battery (a 3-4 month old one mind you) and his machine says its fine... i have him try to jumpbox me anyway... car starts perfectly.

      I get home... shut her off, try to start her again and get the same deadly silence. Completely confused and somewhat hacked off i prepare and eat dinner with the fam and come back out a couple hours later and try to start it and it fires right up with no problem. CEL hasnt come back yet... 3 restarts so far... and im really more puzzled than ever...

      Thoughts?


    20. 06-10-2010 02:05 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by resevil83 View Post
      I have two codes the p0411 and the p0420. I'm smelling gas in the car. I have a 03 1.8t jetta. I was hoping someone could link me to a picture of where the hoses are. I am not sure exactly where they are located. Why would I be smelling gas? I was hoping to check the air pump but how can I tell if it's functioning properly. Any help would be much appreciated. Is there a fuse that might be blown for the air pump? The combi valve I don't think I'd be able to check if it was functioning. So I was hoping to narrow it down. The other code I believe it has something to do with my 02 sensors. I might have to also replace my cat. Can anyone also recommend a cat?


      first of all, please check your pre o2 sensor (front) also check hose that connect to pump and combi valve aswell as the one that connect to your air filter also under the manifold there are breather hoses from the pcv valve that might be torn because of boost and that might be circulating through your car.
      the only thing if you want to spend money you should get a boost test done aswell as a vacuum test

    21. Junior Member
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      06-29-2010 12:49 PM #21
      I'm working on the stes to isolate the P0411 problem on my 2000 1.8T Passat. My goal is to get the car to pass emissions here in Austin.

      Current status:
      1) Replaced vacuum hoses
      2) Inspected other hoses they look fine
      3) Secondary air pump runs for 60+ seconds during cold start

      A couple questions:
      1) If the secondary air pump runs, can the failure still be the combi valve?
      2) Steps to check secondary air pump selenoid?
      3) Steps to check fuses in ECM box?

      Other thoughts or ideas to isolate?

      I've already been through three secondary air pumps and a combi valve. I'd like understand so I don't have to continue to deal with this issue.

    22. Junior Member
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      09-21-2010 12:48 PM #22
      I was hoping that the shop would be able to easily easily handle this but we will see so I brought the car in to have it repaired by local shop who specialized in VW's. They replace EGR valve, O2 sensor and purge valve but the check engine light came back on yesterday. I'll bring it in again and get them pull the codes again and revisit.

      The only thing left that list posted above is
      1) Bad gas cap
      2) EGR selenoid
      3) Blocked Catalytic Converter
      4) Plugged vent line from gas tank (from over filling)

      This is a good and safe car. However, the DAMN secondary air pump and emissions codes are driving me crazy! I've spend way too much money getting this resolved.

      Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated

    23. Junior Member
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      09-27-2010 06:26 PM #23
      I was finally able to get my P0411 code and pass emission. I'm not sure all of this needs to be done but the following resolved this issue for now:
      1) Replaced EGR (combi) valve
      2) Replaced O2 sensor
      3) Replace EVAP purge valve
      4) Replace SAI pump
      5) Replace ECU power supply
      6) Cleaned galleys in valve and piping back of cylinder head

      I'm also told that the galley in the cylinder head are also partially clogged which could cause the code to eventually return.

    24. Junior Member
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      10-04-2010 10:25 AM #24
      The emissions workshop is back again. I'll see if I can get the code pulled from the auto parts store and get the exact code. What else could it be? I've spent too much money not to have the problem resolved.

      I having difficulty thinking it has anything todo with sludge or the galleys in the head. I don't see the connection between that and the emissions.

      Any thoughts or ideas are welcome

    25. 11-23-2010 10:53 PM #25
      Can the kombi valve, malfunction even though is new?????? please advice

    26. Member
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      12-31-2011 07:24 PM #26
      I have the same issue on my 24v Vr6. I have already changed the combi valve. Recently I had my mechanic reset the CEL and it remained off for about 1000 miles. How do I know if the SAI pump itself is not working? Also should I just buy a vacuum hose refresh kit as a preventative measure? Usually after about a min or so after a cold start I can hear the engine tune change, I am not sure if this is the SAI pump working/shutting off. This CEL is becoming a REAL pain in my a$$. I would like to at least troubleshoot the issue myself, in case I do need to take it to a shop, I can walk in with a part and know exactly what I need the to do, that way I can potentially same a bunch of cash. Any advise? Thanks in advance

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      12-31-2011 07:25 PM #27
      forgot to mention I have also replaced both o2 sensors

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      01-27-2012 03:11 PM #28
      I found that my P0411 can be avoided long enough to pass emissions. Here I what I

      1) Disconnect the batter for 15 minutes
      2) Reconnect the battery
      3) On cold starts, increase the RPM to 2500 at any lengthy stops for the first 5 minutes of my commute
      - Remainder of my commute is on the highway

      I found that my P0411 always occurs within 5 minutes on a cold start. If I forget to increase the RPM on a cold start it returns.

      I was able to do the for two weeks and get the car through a drive-cycle and pass emissions.

      What would cause such behavior?

    29. Junior Member
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      01-27-2012 03:15 PM #29
      gerryo,
      I am in the same boat as you except mine is a B5 1.8T. I have had the entire system replaced (only one O2 sensor) without success. I'd like to figure out an approach to isolate the problem and fix it permanently.

    30. 01-27-2012 08:32 PM #30
      Purge valve not functioning properly possibly and or a bad/cheap gas cap.

    31. Junior Member
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      01-28-2012 05:08 PM #31
      I've replaced the gas cap several times trying two from autozone before going back the an offical VW gas cap from the VW dealer

    32. Member tryin2vw's Avatar
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      01-28-2012 08:28 PM #32
      It could be a sticking combi valve, vacuum lines, faulty SAI solenoid, faulty SAIP relay, leaking/ clogged SAIP hoses, blown fuse to the SAIP, or bad SAI Pump. If the pump is running, that eliminates the last two.

    33. 12-27-2012 03:06 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by tryin2vw View Post
      It could be a sticking combi valve, vacuum lines, faulty SAI solenoid, faulty SAIP relay, leaking/ clogged SAIP hoses, blown fuse to the SAIP, or bad SAI Pump. If the pump is running, that eliminates the last two.
      my po411 code also came up, along with po16795, po16486,po16684, and po16686, im not sure if the "misfire" and "maf signal too low" codes were caused by me disconnecting the maf sensor while the car was running. i did this too check if the car would run smoother since it would stumble at times (yes, it did run smoother) . Today in the morning when i turned on my car i didnt hear the SAI pump turn on. Can someone tell me which relay and fuse is for the SAI pump. I have a 2002 Golf GTI 1.8t. Also, could the misfire and maf codes cause the po411 code to pop up? Any help will be great, thanks.

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      12-29-2012 05:36 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by 805 GTI View Post
      my po411 code also came up, along with po16795, po16486,po16684, and po16686, im not sure if the "misfire" and "maf signal too low" codes were caused by me disconnecting the maf sensor while the car was running. i did this too check if the car would run smoother since it would stumble at times (yes, it did run smoother) . Today in the morning when i turned on my car i didnt hear the SAI pump turn on. Can someone tell me which relay and fuse is for the SAI pump. I have a 2002 Golf GTI 1.8t. Also, could the misfire and maf codes cause the po411 code to pop up? Any help will be great, thanks.
      I had the same problem, p0411 after replaced the plugs that at the time droped misfire code. also at the time a EVAP system small leak code was detected. I tightened the cap without replacing it. after few month, now I smell gas... my gas tank bottom has been wet from leakage... are these events are relatated? any suggestions?

    35. Member scotts13's Avatar
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      12-29-2012 06:03 PM #35
      Not really. The P0411 means the Secondary Air Injection Pump flow is wrong. Most common cause (aside from a dead pump) is one of the hoses into or out of the pump is cracked or disconnected.

      Sure you don't mean P0441? That's the purge valve in the EVAP system; could be related to a leaky cap or tank.

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