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    VWVortex


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    Thread: Starter starts but fly wheel dont turn!!!! HELP!!!

    1. 07-11-2004 10:34 PM #1
      alright so i got my 1650cc aircooled engine all put together and mounted back to the transaxle and everything, but when i go to start it the starter spins as though it is miles away from the flywheel but when installing the starter the gears seem to mesh well. the fly wheel does turn when rolling the chasis though. any ideas or know anyone that can help????? (and i also need a wiring diagram for what hooks up to the coil and carb) thanx a bunch

      Rody


    2. 07-11-2004 11:29 PM #2
      u may have a 6v flywheel in it. 6v fly's r smaller than 12v fly's.
      good luck!

    3. 07-12-2004 12:08 AM #3
      **** are they really? thats prolly my problem.... ill have to check that out.... do they fit the same or will i have to do any machining?

    4. 07-12-2004 10:06 AM #4
      no, sorry to say you are wrong there..........the only thing smaller about a 6v flywheel is the clutch surface and the weighted area........you can use a 12v starter on a 6v flywheel (i have done this, so before you chime it that it doesn't work)..........and if you are a 1650 you are probably running a 12v flywheel (you can check your case, if it has letters in front of numbers you are 12v, if only original numbers are present you have a 40hp case and have a 6v flywheel)............it sounds like you have a bad starter that doesn't want to engage, something wrong with the selenoid not engaging the starter......try another starter, preferably an autostick starter just in case you are having starter bushing problems as well.........

    5. 07-12-2004 11:16 PM #5
      not the starter.. its brand new..... and it engages fine...

    6. 07-13-2004 08:48 AM #6
      baja when you put a starter in a car it is not engaged on the flywheel..........it sits above the flywheel free and clear........the starter selnoid causes the starter gear to drop down and engage on the flywheel and thus turn over the motor, that is how it works......it does not rest on the flywheel 24/7..........even if it is new, doesn't mean it will work properly......it sounds like your starter bushing is bad, so even if you were to swap out another starter (except one from an autostick car cause those are stand alone) it would do the same thing.......i would try replacing your starter bushing, and if you want to know how to do that, post back and i will explain...........

    7. 07-13-2004 11:52 PM #7
      YES!!! PLEASE EXPLAIN! lol... srry im relitively new to this... im 17 and this is my first volkswagen... ive done a couple jeeps and a belair... but a vw is of a diff. nature.... thank u much

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      07-14-2004 12:47 AM #8
      Quote, originally posted by asnvolks »
      no, sorry to say you are wrong there..........the only thing smaller about a 6v flywheel is the clutch surface and the weighted area........you can use a 12v starter on a 6v flywheel (i have done this, so before you chime it that it doesn't work)

      Normally asnvolks is exactly right, but this time he's wrong in two ways.
      1. The 12v flywheel is just over 1/4" larger in diameter. That's why you have to grind out the bell housing slightly when you put a 12v flywheel on an earlier transmission.

      2. I wonder how you got away with using a 12v starter on a 6v flywheel. The gears are different. 6v has 109 teeth and 12v has 130 teeth. It may work for a short time, but eventually you'd chew the flywheel teeth to bits.

      Of course, I'm only refering to "normal" versions of these flywheels. A '67 (and optionally in '66) used a 12 volt generator and starter, but used a 6v starter drive (bendix) and a 6v flywheel starter ring gear(109 teeth), but had the later, larger, 200mm clutch, which is associated with being a 12v flywheel (usually 130 tooth). Have I confused you enough yet?

      Basically, to be 100% sure, you have to count teeth. 109=6v=SR11x 6volt starter. 130=12v=SR15x or SR17x (autostick) starter.

      In this pic, you can see an autostick starter on the left, a regular 12v starter in the middle, and a 6v starter on the right. You can tell from this angle that the 6v gear is slightly larger, and the teeth are spaced slightly farther apart as well.

      Of course, none of this comes into play until you can get the starter to engage the flywheel...which it doesn't sound like it's doing because you said it "spins freely" so check the bushing...but it sounds like a bad starter to me.




      Modified by DubberNix at 10:06 PM 7-13-2004

      Sometimes a majority only means that all the fools are on the same side.

    9. 07-14-2004 08:56 AM #9
      yes the dia. of a 12v flywheel is bigger, forgot to mention that, (i really need to quit posting when my blood sugar is low).......and yes the number of teeth are different from a 6v flywheel..........but i did use a 12v starter on my 61' beetle with a 40hp motor back in the day (cause i really didn't know any better) and it worked for the better part of a year before i switched out motors to a 1500 with a 12v flywheel...........it did however mangle the hell out of the teeth on the flywheel, but it didn't break any..........but like i said before i do believe that his selenoid isn't functioning properly and thus not engaging the starter motor...........it is most likely that or a bad starter bushing......but to put an end to all this, yes a 6v starter would work for your set up, so having the wrong starter isn't the issue........it is in fact that the starter isn't working properly...........

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      07-14-2004 12:05 PM #10
      Quote, originally posted by asnvolks »
      ...but like i said before i do believe that his selenoid isn't functioning properly and thus not engaging the starter motor...........it is most likely that or a bad starter bushing......but to put an end to all this, yes a 6v starter would work for your set up, so having the wrong starter isn't the issue........it is in fact that the starter isn't working properly...........

      Just for the record, I agree with this 100%

      Sometimes a majority only means that all the fools are on the same side.

    11. 07-14-2004 12:18 PM #11
      thanks kid


      i just remembered something else kind of snazzy........a 6v starter takes a different size starter bushing than a 12v.........


      go get a starter for an autostick car (68 to when the heck ever they stopped making it) and try that........same price, and you get a starter with more torque, ie a high po starter in stock clothing.......


    12. 07-14-2004 05:26 PM #12
      crap... now im lost.... alright. I had to grind out the housing for the starter there fore it is a 12v. correct? and i am running a 1600cc engine from a 1973 or 74. The previos starter crapped out and it was a 6v. So 74 beetles i thought had 12v fly wheels but this was runing with a 6v starter. I checked the flywheel and it is in prime condition. So back to the starter. if it is a 12v and i have a 6v flywheel when i push the starter button (assuming the bushing and starter are working properly) the flywheel would engage (tho tearing the hell out of it)? next question- how do i make shure the bushing isnt messed up?


      ..... wow i feel like a noobie - vw is a diff breed than american vihicles im use to...... next question... i got a spin on filter that is also a oil pump, to install this i need a oil pump body puller... any otherway? i dont need the old body again so can i just pry it out? or would that mess up something vital? this is an awsome baja-nothing like the usual ones- if ya want pics ill post sum. You've never seen anything like this.... THANX Y'ALL

      for every one


    13. 07-14-2004 05:28 PM #13
      also any one have a good wiring diagram or can tell me what wires hook where from the coil??? i tryed from a chiltons book but my distributor started smoking so im thinking it was deffinately wired wrong.... lol

    14. Member vdubjim's Avatar
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      07-14-2004 05:56 PM #14
      just use all the 6v stuff

      6v starter is fine on 12v...

      ALL PARTS ARE PLUS SHIPPING!!!!!!!!
      Custom Vinyl Graphics and Stickers
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    15. 07-14-2004 06:20 PM #15
      but i have a 12v starter and i dont wanna spend another 50$ on a 6v lol... im 17- not alot of money... I have a good job and raking in bout 700-800$ paychecks but i got bills aswell lol..... anyway for pics of my bug here is my web site http://www.freewebs.com/iowabajas/

      tell me what u think of it so far....


      inside:
      -shaved door handles
      -quick t-shifter
      -americanpro 12 inch 1200watt sub
      -4 6x9 american legacy 500watt
      engine:
      -big bore kit (1650cc)
      -Hi lift rocker arm
      -hi volume oil pump with spin on oil filter
      -recently rebuilt with all new seals and junk


      too lazy to write more.....


      Modified by VWBaja at 11:24 PM 7-14-2004


    16. 07-14-2004 08:26 PM #16
      o sorry i was thinking of something else. i was thinking about the teeth on the gears. my bad.
      Quote, originally posted by asnvolks »
      no, sorry to say you are wrong there..........the only thing smaller about a 6v flywheel is the clutch surface and the weighted area........you can use a 12v starter on a 6v flywheel (i have done this, so before you chime it that it doesn't work)..........and if you are a 1650 you are probably running a 12v flywheel (you can check your case, if it has letters in front of numbers you are 12v, if only original numbers are present you have a 40hp case and have a 6v flywheel)............it sounds like you have a bad starter that doesn't want to engage, something wrong with the selenoid not engaging the starter......try another starter, preferably an autostick starter just in case you are having starter bushing problems as well.........

    17. Member
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      07-14-2004 11:24 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by VWBaja »
      but i have a 12v starter and i dont wanna spend another 50$ on a 6v lol...

      If you only paid $50 for your 12v starter, it's probably bad

      Sometimes a majority only means that all the fools are on the same side.

    18. 07-15-2004 01:47 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by VWBaja »
      crap... now im lost.... alright. I had to grind out the housing for the starter there fore it is a 12v. correct? and i am running a 1600cc engine from a 1973 or 74. The previos starter crapped out and it was a 6v. So 74 beetles i thought had 12v fly wheels but this was runing with a 6v starter. I checked the flywheel and it is in prime condition. So back to the starter. if it is a 12v and i have a 6v flywheel when i push the starter button (assuming the bushing and starter are working properly) the flywheel would engage (tho tearing the hell out of it)? next question- how do i make shure the bushing isnt messed up?


      ..... wow i feel like a noobie - vw is a diff breed than american vihicles im use to...... next question... i got a spin on filter that is also a oil pump, to install this i need a oil pump body puller... any otherway? i dont need the old body again so can i just pry it out? or would that mess up something vital? this is an awsome baja-nothing like the usual ones- if ya want pics ill post sum. You've never seen anything like this.... THANX Y'ALL

      for every one

      ok to start off.........yes you have a 12v flywheel........second what did you grind on/drill on? if you had to drill out the hole for the starter shaft to go into then it is safe to say you messed up the starter bushing and thus provided (hopefully) a solution to the problem.........i would recommend go and getting a starter bushing for a 12v starter and if you don't have a tap and die set up or access to one, go to sears with the bushing and tell them you want a standard right hand tap (doesn't matter what thread it is for), just so long as it will fit and thread into the bushing, but don't thread into that new bushing!!!!!!!!but also if you have drilled it out you may want to get a couple of sizes bigger just in case..........answer some of my questions up top as to what you modified, and if you answer yes, then head to sears pick up the goodies and then give us a shout back on here and i will walk you thru starter bushing replacement


    19. 07-15-2004 10:54 PM #19
      ....ok...... only thing i modified was the hole the shaft of the starter goes in.... it had a small sizing tube in it that made the 6v fit right(i is a new trans-axle case) and so i started drilling that out and it ended up just sliding out. but other that that i did nothing.... and by bushing u mean the gear on the starter?(sorry for the stupid/ignorant question) thanx for your patience....

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      07-16-2004 12:37 AM #20
      ah ha! A starter bushing is required in order to keep the starter gear aligned with the flywheel. You need a 6v tranny to 12v starter adapter bushing. Should be around $3 bucks.
      Sometimes a majority only means that all the fools are on the same side.

    21. Member
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      07-16-2004 12:38 AM #21
      The bushing is the part that the end of the start goes into.
      If you say it fell out then you need to put one in there so the end of the starter lines up properly.






      Modified by SacR32 at 9:40 PM 7-15-2004


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