Gear ratios

[G60ING]

So I'm about to go shopping for a donar tranny from a new jetta or golf, 1.8T or VR6.
The VR6 GTI ratios:
1st: 3.62:1
2nd: 2.07:1
3rd: 1.47:1
4th: 1.04:1
5th: 0.84:1
Final: 3.39:1

The 1.8T GTI ratios:
1st: 3.30:1
2nd: 1.94:1
3rd: 1.31:1
4th: 1.03:1
5th: 0.84:1
Final: 3.65:1

The G60 Corrado tranny:
1st: 3.778:1
2nd: 2.105:1
3rd: 1.345:1
4th: 0.971:1
5th: 0.795:1
Final: 3.684:1

My desires is to have good laucnching and acceleration up to about 100 but then be able to cruise at 75 with 2800 RPMs give or take 300 rpms. I like to autoX and second gear is currently a little to short to be safe. I think either tranny would be good but I'm hesitant on the 1.8T as it looks like a long 1st and 2nd gearing. gtg60 I'm sure will be able to shed some light too as he has a VR6 gear set? A peliquin diff, lightened flywheel and good VR6 clutch will be dropped into the ata G60 casing I have. Along with the shifting mechanism from the donar tranny that way I can smooth up the shifting.

so what tranny should be the donar?

[SSj4G60]

i guess use http://www.vw6speed.com to figure out you speeds in each gear, and find out from brendan/g60racer as he already has the CDM gearing in his G60, im going to be swapping R&Ps w/ ventodan in the future since i want taller and he wants shorter


[Modified by SSj4G60, 6:27 PM 11-12-2001]

[G60ING]

Nice informative page. I've done some plugging and these are the results from my numbers when computed with 205/45/16 tires:

The VR6 GTI ratios: speed at 3000 RPMs speed at 6500 RPMs
1st: 3.62:1 16mph 36mph
2nd: 2.07:1 29mph 64mph
3rd: 1.47:1 41mph 90mph
4th: 1.04:1 58mph 127mph
5th: 0.84:1 72mph 157mph
Final: 3.39:1

The 1.8T GTI ratios:
1st: 3.30:1 17mph 37mph
2nd: 1.94:1 29mph 63mph
3rd: 1.31:1 43mph 94mph
4th: 1.03:1 55mph 119mph
5th: 0.84:1 67mph 146mph
Final: 3.65:1

The G60 ATA Corrado tranny:
1st: 3.778:1 14mph 32mph
2nd: 2.105:1 26mph 58mph
3rd: 1.345:1 41mph 90mph
4th: 0.971:1 58mph 125mph
5th: 0.795:1 70mph 153mph
Final: 3.684:1

The G60 AYL Corrado tranny:
1st: 3.778:1 14mph 32mph
2nd: 2.118:1 26mph 57mph
3rd: 1.429:1 39mph 85mph
4th: 1.029:1 54mph 118mph
5th: 0.838:1 67mph 145mph
Final: 3.684:1

I think I'll go for the VR6 tranny.

but it looks like some of the drag people might want the 1.8T tranny. thanks Frank
list of tranny codes and gearing: http://www.kraftswerk.com/ratios/ratios_02AJ.html
list of what 02J and O2A tranny are in what cars: http://www.kraftswerk.com/price/price_02A-02J.html

If you desire to learn about how the different gearing will affect your car at different MPH and RPMs then this is a very good page:
http://www.merkurtech.com/mt-downloads/main.php
Download the Excel speed gear calculator

as for the tire diameter I use this page for that calculation:
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html


[Modified by G60ING, 10:33 AM 11-15-2002]

[90 GT-G60]

Frank, in your last two examples, the G60 ATA vs the AYL

ATA
5th: 0.795:1 70mph 153mph
Final: 3.684:1
AYL
5th: 0.838:1 67mph 145mph
Final: 3.684:1

Shouldn't the speed at 3000 rpms be higher for the AYL with its .838.1 5'th gear vs the ATA's 0.795:1 5'th gear?

Or am I just not understanding this. I thougt that the lower the number the slower the rpms.

Someone care to enlighten me?

[G60ING]

Yes the lower the number the lower the RPMs lets do that same comparison with the speeds the same:

ATA
5th: 0.795:1 70mph=2962 rpms; 140mph=5924 rpms
Final: 3.684:1
AYL
5th: 0.838:1 70mph=3122 rpms; 140mph=6244 rpms
Final: 3.684:1

Hope that makes it easier to understand

[90 GT-G60]

Okay, so I was right your first set of numbers were off or switched around?

[G60ING]

eric go to the links at the bottom of my above replies and check them out. You'll see that I haven't changed the numbers but just figured the RPMs out instead of the speeds.

They are good links and make it much easier to understand/learn. I'm not knowledgable enough to explan it other than that. Frank

[90 GT-G60]

Your going to make me work for it, aren't you?

[G60ING]

With the gear number being higher you will run higher RPMS and you will be accellerating up quicker to most speeds but when shooting for higher speeds you won't have enough leg to get there. Also you won't be able to run up in the higher speeds as efficantly. Its kind of like remote control cars. I would practice at tracks looking for the ideal gearing which would give me the quickest accelleration and fastest lap times but yet still allow me to run to exactly 4 minutes. any battery power left over in the end was considered wasted power if I didn't win.


[Modified by G60ING, 12:35 PM 11-13-2001]

[DubG60]

Keep in mind...A bit too short or too tall can can also cause problems. Im sure G60ing has seen this in RC cars as over or undergearing for a particular track. RC cars burn up motors from over working. Ive seen this in full size cars as well.

[3wheelin]

As the lord has blessed me, so shall I bless my VW brothers! Check it out yall, a gear-speed calculator that computes speed for every 1000 rpm! Frank, we all can stop using VL's calculators now. Just go to downloads, then choose either Excel 95 or 97 format, download on your computer, find a mustang and smoke it like a cuban cigar.
http://www.merkurtech.com/?dir=downloads

love, peace and hairgrease from Baltimore......

[gtg60]

Frank
A few things, the Corrado VR6 (CDM) has a 3.647 final drive which means about 10% overall lower gearing, that may be more suitable and give you better acceleration, don't forget though you can always change fifth gear to be a bit taller.
And you can change it with the gearbox on the car!

Another thing worth thinking about is how your gearbox requirments may change if you extend the rev limit.

Also, don't forget the only bit you need from your original box will be the bellhousing.

I do like my tall CCM gearbox but I was thinking about changing to a 3.6 final for better accerlation but, my plans have changed, I'm going with the TT's 6 speed gearbox (already have it).

Keith

[G60ING]

CDM
Final 3.647

speeds at 3000 and 6500 RPMs
1st gear 3.300;17mph;37mph
2nd gear 1.944;29mph;63mph
3rd gear 1.308;43mph;94mph
4th gear 1.034;55mph;119mph
5th gear 0.838;67mph;147mph

optional 5thgear from the ATA tranny:
5th gear 0.795;71mph;155mph

maybe a 5th gear from a TDI DQY or CTN tranny?
5th gear 0.755;75mph;6500 if I ever got enough hp or lbs would be 163
80mph would be 3182 RPMs. what a nice cruising gear. I thing I might try to get this gear set as its easy enough to pull with the tranny still in the car. 4th and below are the fun gears and 5th is for mpg. and 6th gear is too expensive

Well I did it I've managed to pick up a VR6 CDM Corrado tranny and a quiafe(I wanted a peliquin) for $700 this weekend. The project is slowly coming together. The Velocity flywheel is here too. Couple more months and a horse trade away from getting this tranny escapaid completed. Anybody want to buy my G60 ATA tranny? Or just the gearing from the tranny that is donating its case to my VR6 Gearing?


[Modified by G60ING, 7:19 AM 12-11-2001]

[90 GT-G60]

I am liking this thread more and more.

maybe a 5th gear from a TDI DQY or CTN tranny?
5th gear 0.755;75mph;6500 if I ever got enough hp or lbs would be 163
80mph would be 3182 RPMs. what a nice cruising gear.

This is what I need. Something to really drop my revs at speed. Since I am on the turnpike for 40 minutes each way, this would do wonders for my milage and ears. Is there any shorter 5th gearing that will lower the rpms even more? I would love to be at 2500 rpm at 70 mph.

Thanks for doing all the leg work for me Frank. I will be waiting on you reviews when you get this tranny in the car.

[G60ING]

Alls I need now are the bearings, snycros and seals. I might even get the gears cryoed. Oh yeah I'll also need a VR6 clutch. With the VR6 clutch do we G60 people need the whole VR6 kit or will a G60 plate and throughout bearing work good.

These are all O2A trannys from Mk3 Golfs and Jettas, Corrados and 90-97 Passats. There are some other tranny codes for these cars that I have not been able to get the gear ratios for abd these are at the bottom of the list. If you are able to get me the ratios for these I'd appreciate it.
_________1st___2nd___3rd___4th___5th___R&P___Notes
ATA====3.778 =2.105 =1.345=0.971=0.795=3.684==Corrado G60

AYL====3.778=2.118=1.429=1.029=0.837=3.684==Corrad o G60

CAW====3.77=2.118=1.458=1.034=0.838=3.647==Corrado G60

CDM====3.300=1.944=1.308=1.034=0.838=3.647==Corrad o VR6

AGC====3.778 =2.105=1.345=0.971=0.795=3.944= Passat 16V

AYK====3.778=2.118=1.429=1.029=0.837=3.684= Passat 16v

CES====3.778=2.118=1.429=1.029=0.837=3.684== Passat?

CHA====3.778=2.118=1.360=0.917=0.717=3.944==VR6 Canada

CGY====3.778=2.118=1.458=1.029=0.837=3.684== Passat?

CNL====3.778=2.118=1.458=1.029=0.837=3.684==VR6 Passat?

CCM====3.300=1.944=1.308=1.034=0.838=3.389==VR6 Passat, Jetta, Golf

CTN====3.778=2.118=1.360=1.029=0.755=3.157==Jetta/Golf TDI

DQY====3.778=2.118=1.360=1.029=0.755=3.389==Jetta/Golf TDI

CHN==== Golf

CHU==== Passat

CRU==== Passat

CBC==== Passat Syncro

AYR==== Passat Syncro

CDH==== Passat Syncro

I'm working at compiling an 02A tranny code to gear ratio list. It will take more time

[Modified by G60ING, 8:44 AM 11-20-2002]

[gtg60]

quote:

---

With the VR6 clutch do we G60 people need the whole VR6 kit or will a G60 plate and throughout bearing work good.

---

The clutch disc's are the same, the VR6's pressure plate has a higher clamping force so really thats all you need, personally though I would prefer to replace the whole thing as a kit, I'd rather not be going back into it for the sake of re-using a clutch disc.

Keith

[G60ING]

quote:

---

With the VR6 clutch do we G60 people need the whole VR6 kit or will a G60 plate and throughout bearing work good.

The clutch disc's are the same, the VR6's pressure plate has a higher clamping force so really thats all you need, personally though I would prefer to replace the whole thing as a kit, I'd rather not be going back into it for the sake of re-using a clutch disc.

Keith

---

I agree. I was wondering about the details. Also I had just put in a new stock sachs G60 clutch less than 30K ago. I agree its a while you are in there no brainer.

[90 GT-G60]

Sell the tranny to Biggs for what you paid for it. That's what I'd do. Since he just missed out on getting it.

[90 GT-G60]

Cool, good luck!

[CrAwLLeR]

Thank`s g60ing...i`ve been lookin` for the damm gear ratios for months!!found them thanks to your links!!
Later boys!!

[G60ING]

looks like I need to start putting this thread into motion. have you ever heard me say that I like to plan my mods a long time before I ever get the money that way I can have time to think the plan through and not waste money.

[joeZX6]

i might give the 1.8t first gear a try..... i would like to have a long first gear..... helps keep traction problems to a minimum

[mrkrad]

the ccm tranny would rock with a high boost application.

[joeZX6]

quote:

---

the ccm tranny would rock with a high boost application.

---

3.39 r+p`s are the shiz!

[SSj4G60]

quote:

---

the ccm tranny would rock with a high boost application.

3.39 r+p`s are the shiz!

---

i got a CCM from a 96 GTi VR swapped w/ my friend
Ill let you guys know in a few days , new motors goin in tomorrow and will be running for WF

[OdorCide]

What is a CCM tranny? A VR6 tranny with G60 bellhousing? I'm looking for the same qualities in a tranny like Frank wants.

[StaggerLee]

quote:

---

What is a CCM tranny? A VR6 tranny with G60 bellhousing? I'm looking for the same qualities in a tranny like Frank wants.

---

A CCM tranny is a VR6 Golf tranny. 93-99. AFAIK

I'm running a Peloquin'd ATA with a 3.39 R&P in my car, and I've been real happy with the combination. It's nice and quick off the line, and I'm turning about 3200 rpms at 70ish.

[G60ING]

quote:

---

Frank
A few things, the Corrado VR6 (CDM) has a 3.647 final drive which means about 10% overall lower gearing, that may be more suitable and give you better acceleration, don't forget though you can always change fifth gear to be a bit taller.
And you can change it with the gearbox on the car!

Another thing worth thinking about is how your gearbox requirments may change if you extend the rev limit.

Also, don't forget the only bit you need from your original box will be the bellhousing.

I do like my tall CCM gearbox but I was thinking about changing to a 3.6 final for better accerlation but, my plans have changed, I'm going with the TT's 6 speed gearbox (already have it).

Keith

---

I talked a number of times with Keith and his car was more sluggish than he desired after doing the gear swap into his car so I decided that the CDM he recomended would better besides I got a good deal on one with a new quaife.

It will be interesting to see how you like the CCM tranny SSj4G60. Please keep me posted.

[mrkrad]

Just depends on your form of induction too. If you have a small pulley on a positive displacement blower, or a quick spooling high boost turbo. You'll find the gearing alot more acceptable (ccm) wise. Nothing sucks more than having to shift out of first due to wheelspin or low boost(turbo lag). This is probably the #1 reason why 1/4 mile times on g60 motor cars suck. The amount of low end torque and tiny first gear pretty much sucks. The broad torque of say a lysholm/eaton would better match a TDI-geared transmission. Those puppies push 220+ft/lbs @ 2000 rpm, much like a lysholm/eaton would, or even 58mm pullied g-ladder. Again power is useless if you can't put it to the ground,and most people here don't run around with LSD, and nitto's deflated to 15psi, so traction is a pretty serious issue.

If someone comes out with a winning combination of a tranny-gearing/ratio's i might even consider it.

One of the reasons i like my automatic is the fact the ratio's are something like 2.7,1.4,1.0,.74 with a 4.11 final drive. If you do the math you'll see that first gear is a helluva lot better off the line. Barely any wheelspin at all and i'm prolly pushing about 160ft/lbs to the wheels given the current state of the charger. I'm sure when i go 62,58mm pulley, i'll swap in a pair of nitto drag radials up front and not have to deal with tirespin one bit. (my current tires are rotted anyways).

The original g60 and vr6 neither have a broad torque band of any significant amount, so they had to design the motor for folks running piss-ass octane and no mods to be effective.

I do hope someone here has the ability and desire to properly transfer the CCM (or TDI) tranny to the g60 bellhousing. I'd certainly be up for buying one of those for a pretty penny whenever my auto dies its death.

I was thinking about making a drag racing chip for both trannies one of these days.

It could be as simple as reducing (vastly) the timing in the launch range (0-3500)'ish , allowing for enough traction to launch, while each successive gear change will obviously land you Well Above such rpm and have the kick ass 100+ octane timing from there on for the rest of the 1/4 mile.. Lemme get some phatty injectors and a charger rebuild and i'll see what i can do about that 14.0 1/4 mile time

[GTibunny16v]

1.8T trannys up to 02 have a 3.90 ring gear and 02's and up have 3.65

[SSj4G60]

Frank - if i do find the CCM too tall i still have my old ATA w/ a fuct case in my garage and i could just take the 3.684 outta there and put it in the CCM when i do a Quaiffe/Peloquin

[Iceman666]

have you checked the specs on doing a TDI 5th conversion in a G60 tranny??

[G60ING]

TTT for Saabfan, reasoning is that search is down
http://www.geocities.com/gtg60/

say hello for me.


[Modified by G60ING, 8:11 AM 8-1-2002]

[SaabFan]

Thanks Frank!

-Nate

[G60ING]

ttt for: g60uk