Holset turbo's!!

[MKIII-JP]

Any one ever hear of them?
USE them?
pro's/con's vs the usuall?
they have many applications that are simillar to all other brands including mounting aswell as water cooling!
I just have been looking at ALL-ALL my options!
any feedback would be great
TIA JP.

[Serpent7]

This is what I know about Holset turbos's, and I use to be into 2.3liter turbos on Ford motors. The wast gates are the opposite of T-3, so if T3's are external wastegates the Holsets are internal. Also, the flang that connects it to the exhaust manifold is diff. but there is a company that sells a adapter for it. You can search it on the http://www.turboford.org site. Also, they have alot of diff. compression wheels, so you can mix and match to your taste. Also where the turbo connects to the downpipe is alot diff. than a T3 but nothing a muffler shop cant fix. Also parts a rear, and more expensive, but they do have a direct website with flow numbers on the site in .pdf files you can download, and print. I'll try to get the site for you.

Now for the GREAT news!!! They are the most efficent turbos out there!! They spool quicker, and have more top end push than almost all other turbos period! All the test that where run on Fords where flat out scary!!! I have found the most info on these turbos at http://www.turboford.org than any other site.

That's all I know about them.

[Serpent7]

Anyone with any more info on this turbo would be nice. Somebody must know more here!!!

[yellerrado]

all cummins diesel aftermarket turbos are holset if that makes any difference.. mind you they have like a 14cm compressor but anyways they make huge numbers for a diesel and lets say 100lbs boost

[Serpent7]

I also know they have some compression wheels that make there turbos spool up faster than smaller IHI turbos!!! There are a few hard to find tests on turboford, and on the Holset turbo website. I lost my old login from turboford, but will try to get it back and get in touch with some of my old contacts there.

[Serpent7]

Hey, check out these sites for more info on Holset turbo's!!!

http://www.turbocalculator.com/holset.html

http://www.holset.co.uk/files/

http://www.extremeturbo.com/pr...id=32

http://www.extremeturbo.com/pr...id=39

Someone who really knows turbos should look into this for VW's. Once I get my turbo installed on my GTI (T3), and get everything tuned right, I will be looking into swapping my T3 out for a Holset HX-35 turbo. Capable of 500HP @ 35 PSI sound delicious!!! and if they are a direct bolt on to an eagle tallon, or mitsubishi galant, there is no reason they cant fit on a GTI

[Serpent7]

Just sent an e-mail to Holset. I wont be able to post the info. until next week. Dec. 12th. I'll be out of the country for a week. Here is a copy of the email I sent to Holset:

"I would like more information, flow numbers, and comparisons for a Holset HX-30, HX-35, and HX-40 turbo's. I currently have a Garett T3 with a .42 inlet, and outlet on my car now which is a 1985 gas VW 1.8L 8 Valve 4 cyl. and want to replace it soon. I hear nothing but great news about Holset turbos but know nothing about them. Any information you could send me on these turbo's would be great! Do they bolt up to the exhaust manifold with the same bolt pattern as a T-3? Also do they bolt up to the exhaust downpipe with the same bolt pattern as a T-3, and if not, do you sell a conversion for it? Also I hear they have a internal wastgate, and my T-3 has a exturnal. what differences would that make, and can they be compensated for??? Also oil in, and out lines, do they bolt the same as T-3's? Sorry Im just covering all the bases."

[yellerrado]

hx35 and 40's are big turbos im telling you.. with the right trims and a/r they can make lots of power flow tons yada yada.. havent seen much with import cars so to say but normal cummins turbo upgrade is to an hx35 hx40 and they average 400-600 hp but nearly 1000lbs torque. im sure one of there turbos would not work good as a direct bolt on to a vw because a/r's are big.. mind you a cummins is 5.9 liter

that 500 and some hp wabbit video that is on vortex somewhere that car has a holset turbo 35 or 40 i forget but its got a smaller a/r turbine housing

[TH]

That rabbit has HX 40 with smallest turbine housing (#14) in the HX 40 range. Holset doesn´t announce their housing sizes in a/r # like many others, you propably won´t even get compressor maps from them. At least few years back they didn´t give out any maps.

[fast_a2_20v]

HX35 is stock on 24v cummins... it flows roughly in the ballpark of an SC61 or a GT35 / T61...

HX40 is simply huge unless your goals are 7xx whp.

but they are great, efficient wheel design, some say even better then garret GT... V band from the "factory" but unfortunately they are metric V bands so that is a bit of a challenge. Supposedly they are very easy to tear down / rebuild and just generally great turbos.

downside? hard to find flanges, and parts for them compared to garret T series stuff which is soooooo hugely supported.

If i had another junkyard car to build up i'd do a HX35 on there, get one used off a dodge cummings guy who is upgrading to a HX40... but HX35 would go on say a mechanical lifter aba 16v, or something, but defiantly not a box stock aba or something you'll never spool it.


Modified by fast_a2_20v at 11:13 PM 12-6-2004

[TH]

I´m sorry but you didn´t get much right on your post.
1. HX40 isn´t that huge it suits very well up to 600-630 crank hp, I have 560 crank in mine at the moment with HX40.
2.HX40 doesn´t have V-bands of any kind not metrical or any other (if you meant the turbine housing outlet).
3.How hard is it to find t3 flange because HX40 has the same flange.

My car is hydro lifter 16V 1.8 and it spools up more than fine, at least I´m very satisfied.
In europe the Holset HX range is very popular and widely used because it really is good and reasonably priced.


Modified by TH at 12:37 AM 12-7-2004

[fast_a2_20v]

i dunno about HX 40 but HX35 flows the same as a gt35 which is a 550-600whp turbo, if your setup is efficient.

I didn't know they are t3 flange, that certainly makes things easy. i know that most hx35 are v band, or at least the OEM dodge ones.

[MKIII-JP]

just saw this sitting in my watched box!

Glad to see that their are others that can see outside the box!

I am in the process of becoming a distrubitor!!

I will be back to discuss some of the already debated topics!
JP.

[Serpent7]

These turbo's spool up fast, Im telling you for a fact. You dont need much displacement to get them going either. Guys on http://www.turboford.org run these on there 2.3L 4 cyl. all day long, with reports of them spooling up faster than a small IHI turbo!!!! The big problem is installation. You have to fab up a few things, but there is even rumors of them now having T3 flanges!!!! If they will fit on a turbo ford (which uses IHI, and T3, and T3/T4 turbos) then they should be able to fit on a VW.

[BoazG]

"My car is hydro lifter 16V 1.8 and it spools up more than fine, at least I´m very satisfied."

When does it spools ?

[Serpent7]

Quote, originally posted by BoazG »

"My car is hydro lifter 16V 1.8 and it spools up more than fine, at least I´m very satisfied." When does it spools ?

We are trying to learn more about these turbos, and how they work, and are better than T3, T3/T4, etc... so please tell us more about installs, where you got the turbo, pro's, and con's, what compression wheels you have, and where to get them from..... Thanks!

[Serpent7]

Quote, originally posted by MKIII-JP »

just saw this sitting in my watched box! Glad to see that their are others that can see outside the box! I am in the process of becoming a distrubitor!! I will be back to discuss some of the already debated topics! JP.

If you become a distributor, I'd like to purchase one around the beginning of the summer, just not sure which one to get yet, gotta save up some $$$$ and learn more about these turbos.

[B4S]

Quote, originally posted by Serpent7 »

These turbo's spool up fast, Im telling you for a fact. You dont need much displacement to get them going either. Guys on http://www.turboford.org run these on there 2.3L 4 cyl. all day long, with reports of them spooling up faster than a small IHI turbo!!!! The big problem is installation. You have to fab up a few things, but there is even rumors of them now having T3 flanges!!!! If they will fit on a turbo ford (which uses IHI, and T3, and T3/T4 turbos) then they should be able to fit on a VW.

Now that we have compared the Holeset turbos to pretty much every other oldschool, outdated, 70's tech turbos out there...how do they compare to the GT series from Garrett? Perhaps even the Mitsu line that they use on the EVO and SRT-4? Doesn't sound like much to me when someone says they outspool a crappy IHI turbo . Again keep in mind that the 2.3 is a very torquey down low motor and would be able to spool most things very well. VW motors are rarely that torquey down low, and don't come any bigger than 2.0 in the 4cyl variety .


Modified by B4S at 6:12 PM 1-1-2005

[Serpent7]

Quote, originally posted by B4S »

Now that we have compared the Holeset turbos to pretty much every other oldschool, outdated, 70's tech turbos out there...how do they compare to the GT series from Garrett? Perhaps even the Mitsu line that they use on the EVO and SRT-4? Doesn't sound like much to me when someone says they outspool a crappy IHI turbo . Again keep in mind that the 2.3 is a very torquey down low motor and would be able to spool most things very well. VW motors are rarely that torquey down low, and don't come any bigger than 2.0 in the 4cyl variety . Modified by B4S at 6:12 PM 1-1-2005

IHI turbo's arent crappy If your looking for one of the quickest spooling turbos out there, that are very relyable, and you only need 15-18psi than the IHI is the best turbo for you. I know guys that run heavy NOS and just want a little more push, and a IHI is perfect for them. Also they are ideal for twin turbo 302 mustangs.

8V VW motors are very tourquey! Now a 16V, would probibly have a little lag with one of those, maybe, but not a 8V. Just my opinion.

We really need to here form some of the guys, and girls here who actually have a Holset turbo and hear what they have to say about there performance on a 8V, and 16V motor. If your out there please respond, we are waiting to hear from you!

[greggearhead]

Holsett has a cool variable AR setup - check it out on their site. Not in all sizes, but neat technology that looks much more reliable than the old aerocharger setup with variable vanes.

[B4S]

Quote, originally posted by Serpent7 »

IHI turbo's arent crappy If your looking for one of the quickest spooling turbos out there, that are very relyable, and you only need 15-18psi than the IHI is the best turbo for you. I know guys that run heavy NOS and just want a little more push, and a IHI is perfect for them. Also they are ideal for twin turbo 302 mustangs. 8V VW motors are very tourquey! Now a 16V, would probibly have a little lag with one of those, maybe, but not a 8V. Just my opinion. We really need to here form some of the guys, and girls here who actually have a Holset turbo and hear what they have to say about there performance on a 8V, and 16V motor. If your out there please respond, we are waiting to hear from you!

I am just referring to the fact that not many auto manus use IHI in their cars anymore, they prefer other makes. Hell Dodge cozied up to Mitsubishi to use their small 16G on the SRT-4...although they have slept with Mitsu in the past on other things . As far as 8v VW motors being torquey...yeah, I am sure the 1.8L 8V with its massive 100 ft/lbs at the flywheel might feel impressive, but honestly, compare that to the non turbo 2.3 Ford motor you mentioned. Or even a 2.5l non turbo Chrysler motor (both of which motors eventually became kick ass turbo setups). You'll find the little 1.8 SEVERELY lacking . I've owned a couple stock 1.8's and let me tell you...whoa, unimpressed. I always chuckle a bit when the 8v guys go on about their awesome 'low end'.

But again, lets see some proof about spool time please (honestly, I'd like to see if I am wrong...seriously ). This time...more info than just "Well, they go nice on a twin turbo 302 . Does not escape the fact that they could still be old school technology. Nothing goes better with a big, crude v8 than a couple of average sized old school turbos .

[need_a_VR6]

I've been compiling info about the Holsets for awhile now. There are a few threads on Honda-Tech worth reading. Use the search there.

I've talked to a few people running HX35s on B16's. I was told they start to make boost in the high 3k range and make 10psi by 4300. More boost later on, obviously. Compression was 9:1ish and all the examples I found were running log manifolds.

That being said, a VW based 2L motor with that compression could spool it a bit sooner, or the same with lower compression. About the same as a big T3 hotside or small T4. This is with the std 12cm turbine housing that you'd find on a manual Dodge truck. Some years of autos had smaller housings.

As far as technology, there are two different compressor wheel generations within the few years that the HX35s were on the Dodge trucks. I think the change is in '99, you can tell as the compressor wheel is a bit bigger 56mm vs 55mm.

It's all hearsay, as the compressor maps are WELL guarded, but the HX wheels are supposed to be roughly as efficent as a similar sized Garret GT wheel. Never have seen proof of that though.

In any case, an HX35 is effin huge.

[fast_a2_20v]

Quote, originally posted by need_a_VR6 »

That being said, a VW based 2L motor with that compression could spool it a bit sooner, or the same with lower compression. About the same as a big T3 hotside or small T4. This is with the std 12cm turbine housing that you'd find on a manual Dodge truck. Some years of autos had smaller housings.

I would like to see a vw 8v or 16v head that flows or has a VE anywhere in the ballpark of a b16 head. We might have more displacement, but they are still moving more air.

[TH]

1,8 16V
7,8:1 CR
Holset HX40, 60/65mm wheels #14 turbinehousing
1,9bar boost

On street it spools a bit faster than on the rollers, but you get the idea.

[Serpent7]

Thanks TH!!!

Now thats what I call "spool-up"!

[Serpent7]

Quote, originally posted by TH »

1,8 16V 7,8:1 CR Holset HX40, 60/65mm wheels #14 turbinehousing 1,9bar boost On street it spools a bit faster than on the rollers, but you get the idea.

How, hard, or easy was the install? What mods, did you have to make to get it to work?

[need_a_VR6]

Quote, originally posted by fast_a2_20v »

I would like to see a vw 8v or 16v head that flows or has a VE anywhere in the ballpark of a b16 head. We might have more displacement, but they are still moving more air.

I won't argue with you there, but it's the only comparable 4cyl example I have thus far.

That HX40 example is promising, and it's not running THAT big a hotside if it's really the 14cm housing.

[jynssi]

I have no clue where You guys dig these figures out from.

HX40 60mm impeller is capable of some 1000cfm flow at tops. Sometimes Vortexers keep astonishing me by making 1cfm/hp ratio, when even most efficient packages produce 1.4cfm / hp ratio.

Mid - range of compressor is some 1.6bar.

If U remember the blue S2 racer with 730 crank hp (yes I know, it must be something like 300 of Your American Badass WHP's), that was equipped with Holset HX50; 65in/75ex. Produced 740Nm of torque.

http://pro-mo.info/temp/vedio/SuperSaloonS2.avi

Also this:

http://pro-mo.info/temp/intake

Is with Holset, but this is "old skool" H1, similar in size than HX40, but older gen.

Prolly not impressive either. But still 2.2l 10v.

As Far as I know, HX-family is late -90's design. Maybe that is old skool then. Dunno.

What it comes to TH's Rabbit, it spools up and even goes kinda "brisky" as mr. Harinen mentioned about the S2...

http://jynssi.hohto.net/temp/vedio/iso.wmv



Modified by jynssi at 4:48 PM 1-8-2005

[Serpent7]

OK, as usual Im easly lost with all this turbo guru talk. In dumb terms (for me) does all this info mean it will/can work on a 1.8L, or 2.0L GTI, Jetta 8v, or 16V set-up? Also, how do these numbers (HX-40 for example) compare to a T3, or T3/T4 set-up? For example : quicker spool-up, slower spool-up, more CFM, less CFM at lets say 3000 rpm's. effecient, or not effecient?

[GaylordFowker]

Well he's a an hx35 next to a garret "super 60"

[Vr6Fidelity]

I have an HX-80 at work with the 5.55" compressor wheel. Im sure i could post up some pics of it in tuesday.

[turboit]

I have an HX35 nonwastegated, with v-band exhaust. Will be running it on my VR.

[Vr6Fidelity]

Let me know how that works out Turboit, i think i have 5 of those new on the shelf collecting dust. Always assumed they were too big.

[mechsoldier]

Quote, originally posted by B4S »

Hell Dodge cozied up to Mitsubishi to use their small 16G on the SRT-4...although they have slept with Mitsu in the past on other things . Or even a 2.5l non turbo Chrysler motor (both of which motors eventually became kick ass turbo setups). You'll find the little 1.8 SEVERELY lacking . .

Dodge owns 80% of mitsu

And it's a 2.4 non turbo I think you're talking about, it has 180 ft lbs of torque n/a

[need_a_VR6]

Quote, originally posted by Vr6Fidelity »

Let me know how that works out Turboit, i think i have 5 of those new on the shelf collecting dust. Always assumed they were too big.

You have HX35s or 80s? 80's are definitely too big.. maybe a HX50 on a VR6. "Racecar" sized turbo though for the displacement.