Here is my complete Crank Fix..

[lloydbiker]

Is that keyway damage on rt side of slot? What did you use as pins? 'Sporty' trans rollers, same as Shawn? Them's wicked HP #'s what intake pressure are you running? I'm just working with a bone stock 1.9L turbo diesel pony. I can see that these engines could be worse than the 1.9L TD on that timing system, with the load of the 'charger hung on.

[lloydbiker]

Just a query on torquing after pinning the gear.Do you still use the original torquing specs, or reduce to ABA spec, and thus reduce stress on the bolt? Has anyone even considered this? There would be less danger of stretching/necking the bolt, and less danger of breaking it. I don't see why you couldn't. After all, you've probably tripled the the shear strength (if triple pinned). Thoughts, anyone?

[REPOMAN]

I use the OEM Torque specs on the crank bolt w/ loc tite.
if you are going to dowl the crank and gear be sure the dowl holes
are straight and the dowls are sunk deep enough so when the
gear is bolted on it goes flush. if the hole is shallow then the dowl will
keep the gear from bolting up flush and cause more damage.

[lloydbiker]

Did you use something different for pins? Yours give the impression of being larger dia than Shawn's. I'm thinking of using 5/32"dia tool steel, larger dia than Shawn's, 7/8" long (X2), not as hard as a bearing roller, but harder than a HSS drill or a std 'Woodruff' key, and on-hand. Any thoughts? Don't forget, I'm working with a bone stock 1.9L indirect-injection diesel, with its clunky idle and A/C, and I'll be fitting a 'clutched' alternator pulley at the same time.

Modified by lloydbiker at 6:43 PM 4-22-2009


Modified by lloydbiker at 6:45 PM 4-22-2009

[lloydbiker]

Made my pins today. 5/32"x13/16" long, from a chuck key that fit nothing I own. I'm in the middle of a move (exchange of house, across street), so the mods will have to wait until I can get at my good drill press (don't trust my 'Hobby' unit to drill that true). I was cleaning, packing in my shop, and had the material in hand (they're now in a baggie, in the glove compartment and the scrap is in garbage). Not driving car 'til mods complete, but fuel cost is killing me on my volunteer work (50mi/day x5/wk) w/ the Dodge. Anyway, I figure if I drill both sides to 7/16"(easy with depth pin on my vernier), I should have no problems with fitting. When I get it installed, I plan to throw the pulley (or one off my 1.6 NA) on, and check to see that it's running true, before I re-install the timing belt covers. Who knows, I might even slap it on with the old bolt just for a test run, at idle, (should be OK, with no loading).


Modified by lloydbiker at 8:54 PM 4-23-2009

[sdezego]

Figured I would add an update to this and a PSA. Against better judgement when I did the fix, I used the only crank seal I had laying around which was a new Erling brand seal. Complete garbage and started leaking like a sieve after a year or two. Replaced with a proper Reinze whose OD is much tighter to specs.

Also, made this tool because I was too lazy to pull off the pan

[lloydbiker]

Don't you just hate it when that happens? My local parts supplier has two tools, looking like huge (36" long) cheap wrenches, that he loans out to purchasers of gears or bolts, so they can properly torque the bolts.

[theguy6989]

I just had this happen to my mk1 swapped g60. What are the chances my valves got bent and my head cracked from the timing possibly jumping with the crank bolt snapping.

[sdezego]

Stock cam, probably ok. Aftermarket cam, no telling.

S

[sdezego]

If you crank wobbles it likely got screwed up when it detached. Possible the hub in teh rubber ring got off center etc.

I have done about 5 cars over the years and have not had a single one fail. Including my car on which this thread was based on. The key is getting the crank bolt torqued properly!

[sdezego]

[VanDamage007]

Oh no... Looks like I get to go drill holes in my crank.... Great. Im expecting the crankshaft to be F'ed. I was tring to get my 88 GTi running, the timings off. SO I retimed the belt lining everything up correctly (flywheel and cam gear) then it fired up and reved up for a second then wouldent start again. I checked the timing belt alignment and its off again... So I tried like 5 more times to do the procedure but upon lining up the crank (at the flywheel) the cam gear marks are 5 - 10 teeth off. I must have a spun crank gear. Now seeing that everyone else has too, IM almost certian. Well Im off to do the deed. Thanks for the help folks! I owe you all a

[mkiiicruisecontrol]

I just thought I would mention this thread because I definitely think these problems are related:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...nk-pulley-fail.

[sdezego]

I haven't read through your whole thread, but I fully believe in the directional Alt pulley. In fact, on my new 20v hybrid motor, I made sure to make use of it.

Just keep in mind that the Frequent issues with the G60 motors over 100k can also be attributed to the G60 charger and added stress cycles on the Crank bolt.

[ThatsNotStock]

Also, made this tool because I was too lazy to pull off the pan

This thread is excellent. Im getting ready to do the same to my 90 g60. I was ready to buy a new(used) block to fix mine when a vw buddy sent me the link. can you tell me what the bracket is doing that you welded up?

[sdezego]

It is just holding the Cog, so I could torque the crank bolt properly.

[VanDamage007]

Did the deed today. Yup she spun on the crank and ate it up. New gear, double pinned on with two 3/16 dowels. Retime it tomorrow and pray. Oh we made a cutter that remachined the end of the crank back flat and true. Nice.

[mkiiicruisecontrol]

Please make a post on how you made the cutter, and include a pic or two.

[lloydbiker]

Has anyone ever had to replace a gear after it's been pinned?

[G60 Carat]

I'd like to thank Shawn for this! A stand up citizen of the 'tex.

It was right there when I needed it!


I bought a bearing and tore it apart to use the pins. But then decide to use the back end of a 5/32 HSS drill bit cut down as the pin, because the bearing I acquired had smaller then expected rollers. (Both width and depth wise) But in the end I got a quite a good size pin in there, so I decide to go with just one, since my crank wasn't totally trashed.

I was expecting a wicked fight with drilling into the gear and the crank (forged?) but with a new titanium HSS drill bit set I bought, I had no problems at all. In fact it was way too easy, like a knife through hot butter. That's what made me realize pin diameter and getting really good penetration into the crank and gear was going to be crucial for a lasting fix. At fist I was concerned the back of a drill bit might not be strong enough, but if anything the gear will crack into pieces before the bit ever sheers.

But if it did happen again, my hand would be forced to buy a ABA bottom end. And then I'll be forced to put a 16v head on it, and hang a big T3 off the rear. Will SNS still do a 16v Turbo chip?

[sdezego]

haha, thanks! Glad you got it all worked out.

Using the drill bit was something that I had considered and thought to be a good option, but everything that I have ever built has some piece or part from a Harley and I could not let my G60 be any different - LOL.

It was surprising to me as well how easy the crank was to drill into, until I started thinking about it and my M.E. geekiness started shining though. Forged does not necessarily mean "hardened", so the differences between cast and forged really has to do with the metal grain and density structure. Hardened is usually associated with brittleness to some extent, which is good for some things. but not good for others (i.e a crank).

...anyway, not trying to get too far off path, but yea, the crank is easy to drill.

I prefer Cobalt bits, but Ti-HSS is fine. If you have to drill a broken off crank bolt or forbid an easy out, then Cobalt is the only option.

[G60 Carat]

Has anyone ever had to replace a gear after it's been pinned?

Yes

<-----





Hey Shawn, I made a crank gear holder, but having a hard time getting the bolt to go 1/2 turn. I got 66ft/lbs and 1/4 turn before I broke the end a craftsman 1/2 inch extension using a 5 foot snipe bar.

Were all you guys able to get a full 1/2 turn after 66 ft/lbs?

Thanks,
Joe

[sdezego]

Hey Shawn, I made a crank gear holder, but having a hard time getting the bolt to go 1/2 turn. I got 66ft/lbs and 1/4 turn before I broke the end a craftsman 1/2 inch extension using a 5 foot snipe bar.

Were all you guys able to get a full 1/2 turn after 66 ft/lbs?

Thanks,
Joe

Yes, without a doubt. It was a b!tch though. I used a 1/2" BA breaker bar with a 12pt impact socket (after I broke all my regular ones). I had to do it in a few attempts, which is fine.

If you are between 1/4 adn 1/2 you should be fine. The key is having clean crank threads and lubricating the threads and all mating surfaces with either loctite (makes it harder to get apart, but who cares) or a Moly grease.

[G60 Carat]

SHould I back itout and do it all again, or just keep tightening from the 1/4 turn?


I was just going to keep tightening it.

[sdezego]

SHould I back itout and do it all again, or just keep tightening from the 1/4 turn?


I was just going to keep tightening it.

Yea, that is fine (as long as you didn't use loctite). Bentley even states, you can do it in multiple attempts

[G60 Carat]

No loctite, just a light oil on the threads. (I don't believe you don't need loctite when it's that crazy tight)

So you're saying it's ok to just keep on tightening it?

[sdezego]

No loctite, just a light oil on the threads. (I don't believe you don't need loctite when it's that crazy tight)

So you're saying it's ok to just keep on tightening it?

Yes

[G60 Carat]

Thanks for all the help, If I'm ever in Florida I'll buy you a Sam Adams

[G60 Carat]

Well......ungodly tight was not working for me. I got the bolt to turn maybe a fraction more, before it made a pop sound"





New bolt and new gear again this week, and if I get it to 1/4 turn I'll just stop. I'll just use copious red loctite and pray for the best.

[sdezego]

Did you have all 4 bolts in that cog or just 2? Either way, that is one disavantage to use that type of tool vs using a Flywheel lock. Either way

I personally am not opposed to going 66 + 1/4 with using loctitie on everything. Threads, cog face, etc.

[G60 Carat]

Did you have all 4 bolts in that cog or just 2? Either way, that is one disavantage to use that type of tool vs using a Flywheel lock. Either way

I personally am not opposed to going 66 + 1/4 with using loctitie on everything. Threads, cog face, etc.

Ok another bolt and gear, got the pins lined up by bolting the 2 gears together.

Anyways, I cleaned the threads in the crank and smeared the bolt in red loctite, got it 66ft/lbs and like 3/8 turn. Then the flexing on the snipe bar got me panicky about breaking something again, so I stopped there.

One thing is for sure I've never had the crank bolt this tight before, so hopefully it stays put.... and I do mean it this time.

[rabbitnothopper]

Well......ungodly tight was not working for me. I got the bolt to turn maybe a fraction more, before it made a pop sound"





New bolt and new gear again this week, and if I get it to 1/4 turn I'll just stop. I'll just use copious red loctite and pray for the best.

leave it to superman to crack steel with just a torque wrench

thanks for pic

[G60ING]

This thread was inspiration for me to create a similar one on TDICLUB:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=318602

I used an 11/64" drill through both the pulley and crank followed by a 3/16" reamer.




I used the old bolt to hold the cog square & snug on the crank:



The first crank cog I did went beautifully, the 2nd one had a snag:
A word of warning, make certain you have the holes deep enough. I'd suggest that you do this with the cog off the crank. Put the pins in the crank, and then measure how far out they stand. If you install the pins with the drill bolt in place you will have a challenge to get the drill bolt out...I learned the hard way buy I overcame the lesson.

I would recommend drilling the sprocket out on a drill press or mill. Once the sprocket holes are made you can use a regular hand drill to drill the holes in the crank.

Yes the timing belt does need to come out to do this.

The dowel pins that I used were 3/16" x 1.5"

Here is what I bought if you want to spend the extra money for a box of 50 for $14 Plus shipping if you can't pick them up: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Dow...B66?Pid=search

Here is the reamer:
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...-131588&ucst=t

Here is the final pass 11/64 drill bit (before the reamer):
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...u=53012&ucst=t


The VW crank holder can also be used to hold the cam gear when doing the TDI timing belt. Its $65 from Worldimpex: http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/oem-...rt_238827.html

You will also need a new bolt, I used the old bolt to hold the sprocket in place while I drilled the crank. I had to grind the sides of the old bolt (shown in the pictures)

I bought the pins, reamer and drill bit because its about once a year that I have my hands on a strange motor that should be pinned during a rebuild or whatnot.

Here is a picture of the dealership tool for torque procedure on the crank sprocket:

[sdezego]

Looking good.

You are worried about that new long block aren't you?

[G60ING]

Motors are a terrible thing to waste. I pinned my crank on my old motor last year. I said then that I end up pinning a crank just about once a year (for myself or friends) and so far I haven't lied. I hope my tools built up some dust over the next couple years. Next I'm going for 2 micron fuel filtering.