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    Thread: 20V Hybrid - How To

    1. Banned reflexbug's Avatar
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      12-11-2004 05:49 PM #126
      ok, I've read through this and I have a few quick questions...
      *20v head on ABA block... I've gotten conflicting info on weather or not you have to fill and mod the front oil hole, or if the ABA HG will solve this?
      *Will a 16v 9a t-belt tensioner work with this setup?
      *Has anyone fit the Honda belt on this setup
      *If I go turbo, what luck have people had putting the 20v head with the lower 8.5:1 ratio you get by bolting on the 20v head on the stock ABA block and pistons?

    2. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      12-11-2004 06:05 PM #127
      Quote, originally posted by reflexbug »
      ok, I've read through this and I have a few quick questions...
      *20v head on ABA block... I've gotten conflicting info on weather or not you have to fill and mod the front oil hole, or if the ABA HG will solve this?

      The ABA HG will work and solve the problem.The early model blocks did not have the extra "ear" like the 9A and ABA blocks.If you feel insecure about this setup then you could always turn the oil return from an oval pattern to a Circular pattern [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Quote, originally posted by reflexbug »
      *Will a 16v 9a t-belt tensioner work with this setup?

      Yes
      Quote, originally posted by reflexbug »
      *Has anyone fit the Honda belt on this setup

      Twinscrew20V did,dont know the outcome.A timing belt is a timing belt....the tensioner fixes up any issues you think your going to have.
      Quote, originally posted by reflexbug »
      *If I go turbo, what luck have people had putting the 20v head with the lower 8.5:1 ratio you get by bolting on the 20v head on the stock ABA block and pistons?

      Dont know of anyone that has ever done it.I would just get the custom pistons and call it a Day.
      $500US really that much to ask?
      ABA 20V is a Supreme engine [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] ...make it more supreme

    3. 12-11-2004 10:31 PM #128

    4. Banned Scirocco20v's Avatar
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      12-11-2004 11:21 PM #129
      Like stated earlier you need to plug 3 of the oil drain holes in the back of the head. The compression is lower than 8.5:1 since the 20v has a larger combustion chamber than the 16v I suspect compression will be into the 7's especially since you have to notch the piston for the center intake valve.
      I'm in the process of building a 20/20 motor and I believe the Honda timing belt will work without issues. I wont know for a week or so since I have another 20v I need to get into my daily

    5. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      12-11-2004 11:27 PM #130
      Quote, originally posted by 86 gti turbo nitrus »

      Keep your garbage out of my threads [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG] .Damn morons that keep bringing down the Tex.
      Quote, originally posted by Scirocco20v »
      Like stated earlier you need to plug 3 of the oil drain holes in the back of the head. The compression is lower than 8.5:1 since the 20v has a larger combustion chamber than the 16v I suspect compression will be into the 7's especially since you have to notch the piston for the center intake valve.

      Nah guy,When you "cc" a 16V and you cc a 20V head,the 16V proves to have the larger combustion chamber in the head.Fitting a 20V head on an 8V block will bring the CR down to about 8.3:1 or there abouts.
      I believe on Page 2 twinscrew posted his CC calculations.
      Quote, originally posted by Scirocco20v »
      I'm in the process of building a 20/20 motor and I believe the Honda timing belt will work without issues. I wont know for a week or so since I have another 20v I need to get into my daily

      Very Nice
      Do you mind taking pictures for the thread and possibly another write up?Thanks so much guy. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      BTW are you using the ABA distributor?

    6. Banned Scirocco20v's Avatar
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      12-12-2004 01:21 AM #131
      Its gonna be on sds so no dizzy.
      When I did some research a while back I remember that the 20v head was like 3cc bigger than the 16v head. Guess people posted some bogus #'s

    7. Member vwpat's Avatar
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      12-12-2004 08:58 AM #132
      20V head is 41-42cc.

    8. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      12-14-2004 05:07 PM #133
      Managed to get in touch with Eurosport and figured out this is infact n AEB valve cover with a plate over the coil pack area to accept plug wires.Rather neet job of you ask me,just gotta figure out where to get those rub tubes around the plug wires from. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

      Quote, originally posted by vwpat »
      20V head is 41-42cc.

      Quote, originally posted by Killa »
      16V Head = 45cc
      20V Head = 41-42cc.

      So pat you were right on.So putting a 20V head as apposed to a 16V head on an 8V Block will bring the CR higher than expected.
      There ...documentation [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]


      Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 11:24 AM 3-28-2006

    9. 12-16-2004 12:18 PM #134
      Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »
      I found this picture showing the Head flow capabilities of the AEB Head/20V Head [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

      I have read through this whole thread looking for the reason why using a 20v head on a 2.0 block (ABA or 9A is what I'd want to use) is worth the work. This is what I have to say... it doesn't seem to be as much work as one thinks. Hats off to Wizard-of-OD for getting the info out to everyone, and keeping it all straight.
      But to get back to my question..
      The pic above compares a small and big port 20v head to 1.8 16v head flow rate. Good to know. It is too bad there isn't a 2.0 16v head in there too, as I understand its exhaust port flows better than the 1.8 16v. I'm not sure where the 2.0 16v intake port would sit. So someone answer these questions for me for me please.
      1. The small port 20v head seems to have a well matched intake and exhaust flow rate. Is there an advantage to having a head flow in just as well as out, over having a head whos intake out flows the exhaust. My limited knowledge and own hypothetic assesment of this situation leads me to believe that a head that has a matching in and out flow rate is over all a better flowing head. No bottle necks is my thinking. I'm trying to understand how increasing intake flow over exhaust flow creates any reasonalbe power gains. Educate me please
      2. Based on the chart I am going to try and guess the actuall flow rate of each port. This is just eyeballing it here...
      20v big port
      Intake = 225 cfm
      Exhaust = 175 cfm

      20v small port
      Intake = 160 cfm
      Exhaust = 160 cfm

      1.8 16v
      Intake = 175 cfm
      Exhaust = 125 cfm
      So, how much difference in the cfm's must be seen before you really see improvement in power. Will 10 cfm's make a noticalbe difference in the butt dyno? Or is 20 cfm's more likely to do that? Like comparing to motors whos HP ratings are 130 and 140. You really might not see or feel much difference in a grand sceme of things.
      3. I think either way you slice it, either 20v head is a better choice over the 1.8 16v. So what are the numbers for a stock 2.0 16v head? I wonder if the stock 2.0 16v head might end up a better choice over the small port 20v. Then, further to that statement, since a 2.0 16v can be easily had for say $100, would it be more ecconomical to have a P&P job on the 2.0 16v, (typically what are the cfm's on a modded 2.0 16v?) and would the price of a professional P&P plus purchase price of the 16v head still come in cheaper than buying and fitting a 20v head to a 2.0 block?
      TIA, again great thread. Even if I don't do a 20v head, the info to get a dizz mounted on the block is great for any application. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    10. Banned Scirocco20v's Avatar
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      12-16-2004 02:20 PM #135
      Dont just look at the flow numbers when comparing the 16v head over the 20v head. The 20v combustion chamber is a better design than the 16v and can take alot more timing. Thus making it a more efficent and allows you to make more power. This is why I picked to build a 1.8l small port 20v instead of a 1.8l 16v turbo. Even though the 16v out flowed the 20v on the intake side.

    11. Member rhussjr's Avatar
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      12-16-2004 06:30 PM #136
      Anyone wanting one of these manifolds to build a custom short runner intake manifold for the 20V engines? This is for the AEB "Big Port" head.


      RIP Marshall Lightner - Staggered Mk4 - I will miss you my Friend and my Brother [12/15/2010]

    12. 12-16-2004 07:07 PM #137
      PM sent

    13. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      12-16-2004 11:02 PM #138
      Thanks for the props action Jackson.Imagine 5500+ Views and not even a sticky.Oh well
      Quote, originally posted by Action Jackson »
      3. I think either way you slice it, either 20v head is a better choice over the 1.8 16v. So what are the numbers for a stock 2.0 16v head? I wonder if the stock 2.0 16v head might end up a better choice over the small port 20v. Then, further to that statement, since a 2.0 16v can be easily had for say $100, would it be more ecconomical to have a P&P job on the 2.0 16v, (typically what are the cfm's on a modded 2.0 16v?) and would the price of a professional P&P plus purchase price of the 16v head still come in cheaper than buying and fitting a 20v head to a 2.0 block?
      TIA, again great thread. Even if I don't do a 20v head, the info to get a dizz mounted on the block is great for any application. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

      Well I always learnt that the more CFM's your head flows the better off you would get power from it.Thats how the VTEC guys been doing it for years.
      You have options though
      Small Port head = Cheap Head /Loads of availability ,Porting = Twice the $$$ used on a Big Port.
      Big Port Head = Expensive/Getting rare now, Porting = decent $$
      Courtesy of funksoulkitty Thanks [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Quote, originally posted by funksoulkitty »
      AEB ports:

      AWP ports:

      Intake Manifolds:

      Quote, originally posted by Scirocco20v »
      Dont just look at the flow numbers when comparing the 16v head over the 20v head. The 20v combustion chamber is a better design than the 16v and can take alot more timing. Thus making it a more efficent and allows you to make more power. This is why I picked to build a 1.8l small port 20v instead of a 1.8l 16v turbo. Even though the 16v out flowed the 20v on the intake side.

      Scirocco20V can you explain this part somewhat?
      p.s. Killa managed to get 507Whp out of his 16V.I am sure we can do alot more with a 20V.Everyone things a distributor is the downside...its not.
      [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    14. Banned Scirocco20v's Avatar
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      12-17-2004 12:24 AM #139
      Just look at twinscrew's motor. He's running 38 degrees of timing on boost IIRC. Thats insane, 16v's cant run that N/A. Could be a good reason why he made some much power on like 10psi from his crapped out G60.

    15. 12-17-2004 08:38 AM #140
      Thanks for all the info. Watched topic!

    16. 12-17-2004 12:44 PM #141
      So, I am under the assumption that this hybrid retains the 2.0 8v oil pump, or did I miss something. I read the entire thread. Would the oil pump be up to the task of keeping 12 more lifters pumped up AFTER the change in the circumferance of the intermediate pulley. Just asking. Applying this info to RD/HD (10.x:1)1.8 8v with 16v head and dizzy run in block for turbo application. I understand that I will have to monkey with cam pulley offsets, but all else should work, providing the oil pump is up to the task. I may or may not notch pistons for valve clearance.

    17. Banned Scirocco20v's Avatar
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      12-17-2004 05:26 PM #142
      The 2l 8v and 2l 16v pumps are the same all except the driveshaft. The 8v has a notch in it so the dizzy can run it and the 16v is splined to fit into the drive gear.

    18. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      12-17-2004 06:30 PM #143
      Quote, originally posted by Scirocco20v »
      The 2l 8v and 2l 16v pumps are the same all except the driveshaft. The 8v has a notch in it so the dizzy can run it and the 16v is splined to fit into the drive gear.

      But the Diameter of the 16V Gear is smaller than that of the 8V therefore the 16V Oil Pump spins faster [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] .
      Doesnt matter because the 16V Gear and 20V Gear have the same diameter.

    19. 12-17-2004 08:07 PM #144
      Quote, originally posted by Scirocco20v »
      Dont just look at the flow numbers when comparing the 16v head over the 20v head. The 20v combustion chamber is a better design than the 16v and can take alot more timing. Thus making it a more efficent and allows you to make more power. This is why I picked to build a 1.8l small port 20v instead of a 1.8l 16v turbo. Even though the 16v out flowed the 20v on the intake side.

      I'm maybe thinking too hard about this.. but I had a thought *ouch*
      With intake/exhaust ports flowing eaqual, would that help create a higher velocity of intake/exhaust gases compared to an intake out flowing the exhaust? Cuz the way I understand it, intake and exhaust velocity is just as important as actuall cfm. And for a turbo application, higher exhaust gas velocity is a good thing.

    20. Banned Scirocco20v's Avatar
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      12-18-2004 01:45 AM #145
      Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »
      But the Diameter of the 16V Gear is smaller than that of the 8V therefore the 16V Oil Pump spins faster [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] .
      Doesnt matter because the 16V Gear and 20V Gear have the same diameter.


      Just think, the 8v spins slower because of the larger IM gear. But it uses the same gearing inside the oil pump and it doesnt have any issues.

    21. Banned Scirocco20v's Avatar
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      12-18-2004 01:50 AM #146
      Quote, originally posted by Action Jackson »
      I'm maybe thinking too hard about this.. but I had a thought *ouch*
      With intake/exhaust ports flowing eaqual, would that help create a higher velocity of intake/exhaust gases compared to an intake out flowing the exhaust? Cuz the way I understand it, intake and exhaust velocity is just as important as actuall cfm. And for a turbo application, higher exhaust gas velocity is a good thing.


      Flowing more air on the intake side is important if you're building an all motor application. Gotta suck in as much as possible and the smaller exhaust ports increase velocity and scavenging effects. It works great for a N/A motor but for a turbo engine its not the greatest design.
      Since the turbo really kills the scavenging effect, I see no reason to have smaller ports on the exhaust side. Larger ports will help empty the cyl's out in the amount of time they have to do so.
      Just my 2 cents.

    22. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      12-19-2004 01:31 AM #147
      Quote, originally posted by Scirocco20v »
      Just think, the 8v spins slower because of the larger IM gear. But it uses the same gearing inside the oil pump and it doesnt have any issues.

      Yes I know there is no difference between any of the pumps but granted a 16V/20V should have a higher oil pressure than an 8V. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Found this Picture showing how the Distributor Is timed.
      Once the Camshaft Gear is Lined and the Crankshaft Gear is lined then you line up the distributor shown in the picture below and hook up the timing belt.The marks on the 20V Gear on the IM Shaft should not help in the timing set up.

    23. 12-23-2004 05:32 PM #148
      just to add to this post.....
      PG block
      PG crank
      20V rods and pistons
      ATW 20V head
      MK3 accessory bracket and alternator
      16V Intermidiate shaft and gear
      16V crank pulley (timing belt)
      AEB crank pulley (serpentine), w/5.5 mm spacer
      Futrell VR6 waterpump pulley and correct belt
      16V distributor block off plate (running stand-alone)
      picture

    24. 12-24-2004 08:43 AM #149
      Quote, originally posted by Scirocco20v »
      Just look at twinscrew's motor. He's running 38 degrees of timing on boost IIRC. Thats insane, 16v's cant run that N/A. Could be a good reason why he made some much power on like 10psi from his crapped out G60.

      I've spoken to a few people who race 16v's and they've said 32 deg is the max timing of a 16v, after that it's not gonna benefit.
      Am I missing something?

    25. 12-24-2004 09:35 AM #150
      Sure, plenty of pics. Let me find them.

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