20V Hybrid - How To

**all-starr-me** · 11-11-2004 11:40 PM

I was planning on using the 16v intermediate shaft with the 16v cam gear on it so I don't have to cut anything and I don't need an extra 20v cam gear. You know the routine PL shaft goes into the 1.8 blocks, 9A goes into a 2.0.

**TwinScrew20v** · 11-12-2004 12:01 AM

Quote, originally posted by all-starr-me »

I was planning on using the 16v intermediate shaft with the 16v cam gear on it so I don't have to cut anything and I don't need an extra 20v cam gear. You know the routine PL shaft goes into the 1.8 blocks, 9A goes into a 2.0.

Your spacing will be wrong for this with either the 16v or 20v sprocket and the 16v cam sprocket will rub on some of the bracketry. If you shim it to space out correctly you will have maybe 2mm of keyway in the IM shaft and that MAY hold up for a little while but with how soft this metal is it wont last too long.

You only need one 20v cam gear (for the IM shaft) and a 16v cam sprocket (for the cam)

Modified by TwinScrew20v at 6:35 AM 11-12-2004

**Issam Abed** · 11-12-2004 09:30 AM

Quote, originally posted by TwinScrew20v »

Your spacing will be wrong for this with either the 16v or 20v sprocket and the 16v cam sprocket will rub on some of the bracketry. If you **** it to space out correctly you will have maybe 2mm of keyway in the IM shaft and that MAY hold up for a little while but with how soft this metal is it wont last too long.

You only need one 20v cam gear (for the IM shaft) and a 16v cam sprocket (for the cam)

explain?
Pic for fun:

I have been getting alot of PM's pertaining to if this can work on an ABA so i did some research.Same rules follow.

This was Taken from Race101 Project 20/20,Placing the 20V Head on an ABA Block.Same concept applies for ABA/PG/PM/PL/Old style dizzy hole in the block.
Pics available here:

They Modified the Oil return "a" and Blocked 3 of the pipe plugs "b"

ABA Bottom Half with JE 83mm Pistons and Morosso Oil Pan

If anyone has anymore pics please post and contribute to the thread!

Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 11:13 AM 3-28-2006

**mrkrad** · 11-12-2004 04:23 PM

sorry i'm gonna sound dumb here, but the thermal effects on a head with those plugs are?

**Issam Abed** · 11-12-2004 04:29 PM

Quote, originally posted by mrkrad »

sorry i'm gonna sound dumb here, but the thermal effects on a head with those plugs are?

none as far as I know,TwinScrew has been running his for some time now and I have not heard any complaints.
Both the 8V and 16V Head had 2 returns,I am sure the oil will find its way down and once you have an Oil cooler all should be good to go.

**mrkrad** · 11-12-2004 04:38 PM

so no chances of hot spots?

**TwinScrew20v** · 11-12-2004 04:39 PM

Quote, originally posted by mrkrad »

sorry i'm gonna sound dumb here, but the thermal effects on a head with those plugs are?

Negligible with a pipe thread. The aluminum of the head expands at a greater rate than the steel the plugs are made of and shrinks 'in' on the plug. And when it contracts...Being a tapered pipe plug...One point in the plug will be tight (if installed correctly) Thats actually part of the reason for the taper of a pipe plug

**GTi Leo** · 11-13-2004 02:01 AM

ok so i have an AEG 2.0 is it the same as the ABA and could i use my stock coil

does the compression really matter if your gonna turbo it i mean it'll be betetr to keep the compression lower if you got a turbo in there

**temporalwar** · 11-13-2004 02:33 AM

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

ABA Bottom Half with JE 83mm Pistons and Morosso Oil Pan

Found project on the site
http://www.race101.com/project_2020.html

I thought there was a way to put a 20V head on a ABA, a saw a Corrodo with huge track numbers with one in a video and wondered how they made it happen, would be awsome to see how it would run with a stock DigiII system just for ****s and gigles (I would get a new standalone later)

Modified by temporalwar at 1:46 AM 11-13-2004

**Issam Abed** · 11-13-2004 02:33 AM

Quote, originally posted by GTi Leo »

ok so i have an AEG 2.0 is it the same as the ABA and could i use my stock coil

The AEG follows the new design with an Internal water pump meaning it also has 5 oil returns whereas the AEB is a tall deck block and follows the old style external waterpump route.Conclusion...they are different.Are you trying to fit a 20V Head on the AEG Block of ABA Block?

Quote, originally posted by GTi Leo »

does the compression really matter if your gonna turbo it i mean it'll be betetr to keep the compression lower if you got a turbo in there

Compression matters for what goal is.TS runs a 9.5/9.3:1 CR and says he is going to go higher.For a 20V G60 or 20V Turbo the ideal CR would be around the high 9's (or a 10:1

)

Quote, originally posted by temporalwar »

I thought there was a way to put a 20V head on a ABA, a saw a Corrodo with huge track numbers with one in a video and wondered how they made it happen, would be awsome to see how it would run with a stock DigiII system just for ****s and gigles (I would get a new standalone later)

The ABA Block is the same as the PG block just different bore and taller deck.This thread applies to all VW Blocks...even AEG.If you use an ABA block then I would advise the ABA IM shaft and Distributor just for simplicity.
Digi II is a pissy system....i cant even imagine what MAF you would use

Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 2:36 AM 11-13-2004

**GTi Leo** · 11-13-2004 03:29 AM

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

The AEG follows the new design with an Internal water pump meaning it also has 5 oil returns whereas the AEB is a tall deck block and follows the old style external waterpump route.Conclusion...they are different.Are you trying to fit a 20V Head on the AEG Block of ABA Block?

Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 2:36 AM 11-13-2004

yeah my 2.0 has a AEG block and i'm thinking of putting the whole top half of a 1.8T on so the manifolds and the turbo. i was also told that i would have to change the bottom end of my engine if i went past 220whp, but i donno if the guy knows i have an AEG or if they are the same bottom. if you know if i would need to change it can you tell me please cuz i don't really wanna spend the money and if i can i wanna put a k04 turbo if i do the 1.8T top swap

**Issam Abed** · 11-13-2004 03:40 AM

Quote, originally posted by GTi Leo »

yeah my 2.0 has a AEG block and i'm thinking of putting the whole top half of a 1.8T on so the manifolds and the turbo. i was also told that i would have to change the bottom end of my engine if i went past 220whp, but i donno if the guy knows i have an AEG or if they are the same bottom. if you know if i would need to change it can you tell me please cuz i don't really wanna spend the money and if i can i wanna put a k04 turbo if i do the 1.8T top swap

Its addictive...you will have to spend money .I am not sure why the block would fall apart @ 220whp seeing that guys are putting down more power with there stock 8V's.
For the Record i am sure you can fart harder than a K04 Turbo

**GTi Leo** · 11-13-2004 02:31 PM

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

Its addictive...you will have to spend money .I am not sure why the block would fall apart @ 220whp seeing that guys are putting down more power with there stock 8V's.
For the Record i am sure you can fart harder than a K04 Turbo

but then that means i can fart harder then a ko3 which is whats un the 1.8T anyways but a stock 1.8T with a ko4 outs 220 whp and 289 wheel torque so if i was to put it in a 2.0 with the 20v head i'll prob be at about 240 whp and he never said the block would break up the pistons will start to break and rods and crank
which is why i asked if the AEG bottom end is stronger then ABA

**Issam Abed** · 11-13-2004 02:53 PM

Quote, originally posted by GTi Leo »

but then that means i can fart harder then a ko3 which is whats un the 1.8T anyways but a stock 1.8T with a ko4 outs 220 whp and 289 wheel torque so if i was to put it in a 2.0 with the 20v head i'll prob be at about 240 whp and he never said the block would break up the pistons will start to break and rods and crank
which is why i asked if the AEG bottom end is stronger then ABA

Thats why buying part by part is better than buying a complete 1.8T engine with half the stuff being useless(stock manifold,stock turbo,etc).
I know the ABA(OBD1) block itself to be a very good block.Has oil squirters,strong rods and rumoured to have a forged crank.
As for the AEG 20V combo,he could always get a fuzzed AEB engine and use his crank and rods in there with JE pistons

**GTi Leo** · 11-13-2004 07:47 PM

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

Thats why buying part by part is better than buying a complete 1.8T engine with half the stuff being useless(stock manifold,stock turbo,etc).
I know the ABA(OBD1) block itself to be a very good block.Has oil squirters,strong rods and rumoured to have a forged crank.
As for the AEG 20V combo,he could always get a fuzzed AEB engine and use his crank and rods in there with JE pistons

well i wan't planning on buying a whole 1.8T engine just plan on buying the head and eventually getting a ko4 turbo kit with the software and stuff but frome what i heard the 1.8t crank would make my engine less then 1.9 liters and if its said to have a forged crank thats sick lol but yeah i have my heart set on this mod and i won't do it till i have the ko4 turbo and all the required parts cuz i wanna get itdone chop chop cuz i don't have another car to drive so i'd prob buy all the stuff then and keep it in my garage till i'm ready to do the work prob next summer then i'll have a beast of a 2.0

also to add another thing to what i said before about the 220whp then i gotta change the bottom end i also heard 300 the stock internals can handle so who knows thats why i asked looks liek another post in the 2.0 engine forums

**GTi Leo** · 11-14-2004 01:59 AM

mabye but the 20v works on the AEG too does it not or would it cost less to swap a 1.8T engine in there

**Issam Abed** · 11-14-2004 02:16 PM

Quote, originally posted by What Gears to Use »

1. CAM GEAR:
16V Cam Gear
2. CRANK GEAR: 16v crank gear STOCK but an ABA crank pullye shaved 5.5mm with a new centering ring pressed in. Futrell Autowerks mods them for 80 if you supply it.
3. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT GEAR:Combination of a 20V Cam Gear and an 8V Intermediate shaft.dont mod the gear...Mod the keyway in the IM shaft to fit the gear. The 8v used a press in half mood key way and the 20v cam gear uses a molded in 1/4 moon. It wont fit unless a path is cut in the IM shaft to fit the key on the gear to. Now the 16v may be the same outside specs...But the spacing on the mounting hub is different. The 16v one sets the gear to far in and requires a spacer...But give you VERY little keyway bite on the IM shaft...USE THE 20v ONE!!!
4. TIMINT BELT:
Prelude Timing Belt:
contitech part # CT 879 (158 teeth)

Thanks to Rodney Huss (RhussJr)who was able to take pics of an IM shaft of what exactly needs to be modded:

Oh Yes
I forgot what chargers:
Well You could either Upgrade your G60 unit to a Stage 4 from Kompressor Kanada for $875US

Oh Bahn Brenner for $3099 John,want to give some Input as to what you can do for a 20V G60?

Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 11:15 AM 3-28-2006

**fast_a2_20v** · 11-15-2004 07:24 PM

what a pain in the ass... My engine is a new style block actually its an AWP block so i haven't had to play with all of this yet.

Guess i'll find out when i build the aba 20v. Doesn't look too difficult haha.

**TwinScrew20v** · 11-16-2004 09:30 AM

Quote, originally posted by fast_a2_20v »

Doesn't look too difficult haha.

Its not too bad. But if you're running a 1.8T without a Dizzy you git to ignore most of this

**rallye driver** · 11-18-2004 03:35 AM

for those who are supercharging, the adr code normally aspirated version 20v has a nice 2 piece intake manifold that uses 4 rubber pipes to join the two sections, the section that bolts to the head can be used to hold the injecters and fuel rail and then a custom intake can be fabbed and welded on or else made in such a way to reuse the rubber pipes. i dont have a picture but you might find the part on etka or someone on here might know what im talking about?

Modified by rallye driver at 8:37 AM 11-18-2004

**TwinScrew20v** · 11-18-2004 09:19 AM

Quote, originally posted by rallye driver »

for those who are supercharging, the adr code normally aspirated version 20v has a nice 2 piece intake manifold that uses 4 rubber pipes to join the two sections, the section that bolts to the head can be used to hold the injecters and fuel rail and then a custom intake can be fabbed and welded on or else made in such a way to reuse the rubber pipes. i dont have a picture but you might find the part on etka or someone on here might know what im talking about?

Polov8 posted these in the Fabrication forum a while back...Good to know the engine code now. Time to suck up to my sister in England

Polov8 also said this one is off of a 96 N/A A4 Audi. BTW...Note its a Big Port manifold. So either you use an AEB or hog out your small port head to match up if you want a reasonably smooth consistant flow

Modified by TwinScrew20v at 6:21 AM 11-18-2004

**rocco2.0gtiLondon** · 11-18-2004 08:38 PM

Any one have experiance with 1 of these toyota electric pumps?
What year MR2? Part number? I'm guessing its compatable with most power steering systems!?
Thinking of retro fitting to my RHD scirocco, any help is always appreciated- Rich

**Issam Abed** · 11-18-2004 11:08 PM

Quote, originally posted by rocco2.0gtiLondon »

Any one have experiance with 1 of these toyota electric pumps?
What year MR2? Part number? I'm guessing its compatable with most power steering systems!?
Thinking of retro fitting to my RHD scirocco, any help is always appreciated- Rich

Why?If I recall the P/S set up in the scirocco/golf is pretty much out of the way.If you must use an MR2 Pump then your looking for one from the 1992 MR2.

**rocco2.0gtiLondon** · 11-19-2004 11:24 AM

I have an ABA turbo, no V belt alternator setup and a pretty busy bay.
The electric pump would offer me some options if i cant fit the ABA style power steering pump.
The only problem with the MR2 style electric pump is that in the MR2 it was connected to an ECU with speed sensors etc, that possibly controlled what pressure the pump runs as the car gets faster!
It could make steering too light at high speeds, but i wonder how the stock pump works? It must spin faster as engine spee grows?

-Rich

**Issam Abed** · 11-19-2004 12:36 PM

Quote, originally posted by rocco2.0gtiLondon »

I have an ABA turbo, no V belt alternator setup and a pretty busy bay.
The electric pump would offer me some options if i cant fit the ABA style power steering pump.
The only problem with the MR2 style electric pump is that in the MR2 it was connected to an ECU with speed sensors etc, that possibly controlled what pressure the pump runs as the car gets faster!
It could make steering too light at high speeds, but i wonder how the stock pump works? It must spin faster as engine spee grows?

Is that your engine Bay?What numbers are you putting down?
And we are highjacking the thread

About the ECU,you dont need all of that.From what I understood is when the Pump is under load (aka turning) then it works but in a straight line the car feels as though it has manual steering.I would not know until I try my unit out for myself,but it makes sense to me because it is an electrical unit.
If you have the room going mechanical >>> electrical would be pointless because you may be saving mechanical HP needed to turn the pump but then the alternator will be under more load as these things draw upwards of 100A so whatever is saved will then be spent on the alternator.The bright side to all this is that you will only save HP when going in a straight line.

**rallye driver** · 11-20-2004 10:49 PM

why do you want one of those cam covers? is it because there is no oil breather?

why not use a modified stepper motor type power steering column from a fiat punto or opel corsa, you can buy a control box for them in the uk and can adjust the power assistance or turn it off completely! these have become very popular on irish rally cars lately

**Issam Abed** · 11-23-2004 04:30 PM

Quote, originally posted by rallye driver »

why do you want one of those cam covers? is it because there is no oil breather?

Because I am using 16V Plug wires.Using them with an AEB/AWP valve cover will cause me to have to make plates like what Bahn Brenner has shown here in order to secure the plug wires.Besides the ADR valve cover is just darn right sexier

(oil breathers arnt really an issue...nothing a little tap and die cant solve)

Quote, originally posted by rallye driver »

why not use a modified stepper motor type power steering column from a fiat punto or opel corsa, you can buy a control box for them in the uk and can adjust the power assistance or turn it off completely! these have become very popular on irish rally cars lately

Can you post a link with these?

I found this picture showing the Head flow capabilities of the AEB Head/20V Head

EIP Tuning and there plug wires

Quote, originally posted by EIP TUNING VW 4 Cylinder 16 valve »

8mm high quality silicone insulated plug wires featuring factory beru ends. Applications for 86-up VW Scirocco, Jetta, Golf, Passat.

Available colors: red, blue, black, yellow.

1986-1992 A1, A2 Chassis $139.95

Modified by Issam Abed at 7:40 PM 2-4-2009

**Fumanchamos** · 11-25-2004 12:53 AM

Just saw this thread

Pic from Peter's Scirocco from Renner Motorsport (phone in sig)

**naterkane** · 11-25-2004 04:13 AM

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

Digi II is a pissy system....i cant even imagine what MAF you would use

porsche 944 n/a
same size as stock, but with a stiffer spring that won't open all the way unless there's alot of air pushing it back, (i.e for better flowing or higher displacement motors (which the 944 had both of).

**Scirocco20v** · 11-29-2004 01:25 PM

When you use the 20v cam gear for the intermediate shaft gear you must get a AWD, AWW or AWP cam gear since the AEB gear is the same part # as the 16v, therefore the same specs as the 16v gear. The transverse motor gear has the correct spacing.

BTW: I tried to x reference the contitech # for the prelude belt and it comes up with nothing. I counted teeth on several prelude timing belts and none of them come close. Anyone know what year car and motor the belt comes from?

**TwinScrew20v** · 11-29-2004 02:27 PM

99 prelude...I have a gates (I think its gates) number for it at home. I counted 155T and it DOES fit a short block...ABA may be a squeeze.

**Scirocco20v** · 11-29-2004 03:55 PM

Ok, I found a 155T belt that comes on 92-98 2.2l VTEC motors. Ordered it from Napa which are Gates belts. I'll post up the part # when I get it.

**Scirocco20v** · 11-29-2004 10:13 PM

If anyone wants modded 8v intermediate shafts. PM me, I'll do it for $10 plus shipping cost back to you.

**Scirocco20v** · 11-29-2004 11:34 PM

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

sweet!Thinking about making kits guy for Vortexers?
Both KK and DahnBrenner have no interest in such kits.

I have no problem piecing together a kit but Im not sure how expensive it will be since Ill be using new pullies from the dealer. Ill call around and see if I can find the pullies cheaper from an aftermarket source.

It would include

Modded 8v intermediate shaft (send me yours or Ill charge a core charge)
16v crank pulley
20v cam pulley for intermediate shaft
16v cam pulley
16v timing belt tensioner, stud, nut and lock washer
timing belt
machined aba pulley (again core charge or ill charge you full price)
4 oil seals

If you guys think Im missing something let me know and Ill get some prices together either tomorrow or Weds.

**Fumanchamos** · 11-30-2004 12:06 AM

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

Isnt that just a 20V Valve cover on a 16V engine?CIS on a 20V....

Come on Wizard-of-OD, I thought you knew better??

Why would there be a distributor plate? Why would the intake manifold be modified?

The head does not determine what you use as fuel management. Yes that is an AEB (Passat head) 20V head mated to a 9A block and yes is is fed by CIS (VWMS Fuel Distrubutor). See some of us do think outside the box.

You just killed your credibility with those kinds of remarks and whats with the ; it seems I should be the one with the after reading such a response.

VWVortex

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