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    Thread: Black Piano Lacquer (Klavierlack) - Includes TB 50-07-03 Klavierlack Paint Application Instructions

    1. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-22-2004 09:58 PM #1
      Here are some photos of the long wheelbase Phaeton with black paint (code A1) with the 'Piano Lacquer' (Klavierlack) clearcoat option applied overtop of the black paint. This is the same paint and clearcoat option that I have on my own car.

      The 'Piano Lacquer' clearcoat covering is available as an option on top of the following paint colours: Solid Paint: Black (A1) Metallic Paint: Mignon Green (A3), Coucou Grey (A4), Turca Anthracite (J3), Mazeppa Grey (N8) Pearl Effect Paint: Tarantella Black (B2), Nocturne Aubergine (L6), Luna Blue (S5). Note that the paint code will change if the Klavierlack finish is ordered - see Derek's post of February 6, 2005, further down in this thread for additional details.

      Michael

      Black Piano Lacquer paint








      Last edited by PanEuropean; 10-06-2012 at 12:11 AM.

    2. 11-22-2004 10:24 PM #2
      Michael,

      I have that finish on my Phaeton and it does stand out when compared to the standard Black side-by-side.

      Before I purchased my Phaeton I ask Phaeton customer care what the $2k paid for and was told that the paint color is sanded between each of the seven coats of paint and the clear coat is also sanded between each of the 7 clear coat application thus giving it the deep shine.

      The standard Phaeton get 4 coats of paint and 4 coats of clear-coat. Hope I wasn't given bad info. Maybe you can clarify when you visit Dresden.

      I will say that the finish is the best I've ever seen and stands up to bird droppings like no other finish I've ever seen. Bird droppings leave no stain on the clear-coat unlike my 2000 Black Audi A6 4.2 model.


    3. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-22-2004 10:59 PM #3
      I'm not too knowledgeable about paint issues. The paint is actually applied where the carosserie is fabricated, about 100 km's down the road from Dresden in the town of of Zwickau, at the huge body plant that is operated by Volkswagen Sachsen GmbH. This plant was chosen to fabricate and paint the Phaeton body because of the town's great history of building legendary German cars - they used to build Trabants there before VW took over the plant, following the amalgamation of the two Germanys.

      Seriously - Zwickau was chosen to do the carosserie and paint for the Phaeton because it is VW's most modern European paint facility. The completed cars are then shipped to the Dresden logistics center inside sealed containers. The logistics center then takes the carosserie out of the container, picks all the interior components, puts the carosserie and components into a special 'tram-car' transporter, and sends the package to the assembly plant in downtown Dresden via the same streetcar network that is used for the Dresden public transit system.

      As far as I know, the Phaetons with the Piano Lacquer clearcoat option (production code FL1) are given 2 applications of clearcoat, then they are sanded, then they are given another 2 layers of clearcoat. I have attached a file (below) that describes North American repair (paint refinish) procedures for Phaetons with the Piano Lacquer finish - this document appears to support the notion of 4 layers of clearcoat.

      Michael

      Attached Files
      Last edited by PanEuropean; 10-06-2012 at 12:24 AM.

    4. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-22-2004 11:04 PM #4
      By the way - I have all 5 of the photos above in 1600 by 1200 pixel format, suitable for desktop wallpaper on a computer monitor. I think that was the original intent of these pictures - notice how the top and bottom thirds of the pictures are kept free of detail. If anyone wants one (or all), let me know and I will upload them at full size to a separate location that you can retrieve them from. I normally only post pictures here at 800 by 600 pixels to keep things manageable.

      Michael


    5. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-05-2005 06:43 PM #5
      Many thanks to forum member Joe (VPRKLR) for sending in these great photos of his Klavierlack Black Phaeton. These are some of the best photos I have seen for the purpose of illustrating the depth and shine of the Klavierlack paint finish. As was mentioned in the first post at the top of this thread, the Klavierlack (Piano Lacquer) clearcoat finish can be ordered on top of several other colours - you don't need to order a black car to get it.

      Joe's Phaeton






      Last edited by PanEuropean; 10-06-2012 at 12:12 AM.

    6. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-05-2005 06:48 PM #6
      Archival Note: Here's a related thread, discussing the Klavierlack clearcoat finish in general: Klavierlack?

    7. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-05-2005 06:56 PM #7
      And, thanks also to forum member Stephen, who provided these pictures of his Klavierlack Black W12:







      Last edited by PanEuropean; 10-06-2012 at 12:15 AM.

    8. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-06-2005 02:10 AM #8
      Here's a link to a very nice set of photos showing a 'Premiere Edition' W12 Phaeton, also with Klavierlack Black paint: Phaeton W12 with 20 inch Wheels

      Michael


    9. Member DCubed's Avatar
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      02-06-2005 03:08 PM #9
      Michael,

      I wanted to step in just a second....the Black Paint is A1A1, the klavierlack is 9010 paint code, when you get the K-Paint, the color codes change.....9050 is luna blue k-paint, and 9052 is nocturne k-paint....

      D

      Derek Douglas
      Internet Manager
      McKenna VW Cerritos
      562-653-9000

    10. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-06-2005 05:27 PM #10
      Derek, thanks a lot for catching that error of mine. I was getting my paint codes from the current German Phaeton prospectus, and you are 100% correct - the paint code A1 is for a solid black car, without the Klavierlack clearcoat finish. Unfortunately, the prospectus does not give the paint codes when Klavierlack is added, which is why I missed the boat there.

      It seems there is a moral to this story - if you want to see nice paint pictures, visit the forum, but if you want to order a Phaeton and be certain it will be delivered with the colour you want... visit Derek!

      Thanks again for catching that. I have edited the errors in the post title.

      Michael


    11. 02-06-2005 08:09 PM #11
      Michael, the photos at the top of the thread are beautiful. You mentioned in a post above from November that you had the five photos in 1600x1200 - are those posted anywhere on the site? If not, could you provide a link to them elsewhere or email them to me at deastman-at-huntercapital-dot-com?

      Thanks, Dave


    12. Senior Member PerL's Avatar
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      02-06-2005 08:26 PM #12
      Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »
      the paint code A1 is for a solid black car, without the Klavierlack clearcoat finish. Unfortunately, the prospectus does not give the paint codes when Klavierlack is added, which is why I missed the boat there.

      One little correction, Michael. The paint code for black is not A1, that is the sales term code for when ordering the new car from the dealer. The actual paint code for the black is L041. The complete list of colors (except Individual colors) are included in the parts catalogue, IM me if you want the list.

      "YOL∞". - Hindu cliché.

    13. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-07-2005 11:15 PM #13
      Here's a few more photos of a Black W12 with the Klavierlack finish, lifted from this thread: My New Phaeton W12 with 20 inch Antera Wheels. Many thanks to forum member Tim for taking the pictures of his car and posting them.

      Black Paint with Klavierlack Finish


    14. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-27-2005 01:04 AM #14
      Quote, originally posted by PerL »
      One little correction, Michael. The paint code for black is not A1, that is the sales term code for when ordering the new car from the dealer. The actual paint code for the black is L041. The complete list of colors (except Individual colors) are included in the parts catalogue, IM me if you want the list.

      Per:

      Thanks very much for catching that error and providing the correction. I have posted a complete list of Phaeton exterior colours (both sales codes and production codes) at this link: List of Phaeton paint colours

      Michael


    15. 04-19-2005 10:38 PM #15
      I have somehow missed the truth regarding the klavierlack finish- are there 14 total coats of paint, 7 black/7 clear (for the black of course...) or just 3 installed at the factory? I remember seeing both, but am not sure. The reason why I am wondering is that since my little rust bubbles appeared in the driver's side rear door panel and since the body shop will have to repaint the entire door to correct this problem(and they will be putting some sort of very thin foam insert between the steel door housing and aluminium trim to hopefully prevent this from happening again) I am wondering how close to specs this will be. I do not think there's any chance of them painting the door 14 times, but they do know the repair process for the klavierlack finish- which is I believe 3 coats or 2 coats ( Michael posted the repair specs a while back) and will be followed.I am just wondering whether the car will be losing anything through the process. Meanwhile they will also be repainting my hood, as for some reason the wipers have rubbed 2 tiny bald spots against the edge of the hood. I have never seen/felt/heard this happening and when I bought the car they were there, but since "fixed" and have now recurred. Since my wife manged to scratch the bumper I am having them repaint that as well ( I am paying for this one!).

      I must take my proverbial hat off to VW for doing the right thing to get these issues taken care of, and by a first rate body shop at that. When I bought the car also there were many many fine scratches all over, which the dealership was to take care of, but even though they tried it didn't work very well. The body shop mentioned above will be taking care of that as well which I am thankful for- I was expecting a fight between the dealer (since that job's about $500-600), but whoever authorized the cost to pay for it, either the dealer or VW they are doing the right thing. It great that they are doing what's right to make the ownership experience good, and while supporting this phenominal car building customer loyalty in the process. Since I am unable to attend the gathering this weekend (new baby at home!) please extend my warmest thanks to the people at Phaeton cust care and the VW execs for making this car possible and supporting it. I will be very interested to hear how the meetings go and regret not being able to attend.
      Thanks.
      Ed.


      Modified by viscount at 7:39 PM 4-19-2005


      Modified by viscount at 7:41 PM 4-19-2005


    16. 04-19-2005 10:54 PM #16
      Sorry you can't make the GTG but congratulations on the family addition nonetheless. Hope mom is doing great too. My car too had thin long scratches from the get go. I buffed them out but still from time to time I see them. No big deal as each time I wax the car, they seem to further disappear. I really was hoping to see those rust areas as I've checked mine all over and I don't see a problem. Of course , I don't ever see salt trucks either. Enjoy the baby!!

      David


    17. 04-19-2005 11:12 PM #17
      Thanks!!! Mom and Baby (Sophia, 6lbs 2oz) are doing well, thanks. Just a little too much for me to be able to abandon ship as my 5yr old son is a handful any my relatives are out for a wedding in DC this weekend so can't help either ....
      Its a good thing you do not have salt and that you did not find any rust bubbles!!!! What I have is very small- maybe 1/4 inch wide my about 3-4" long just at the very edge of the door frame where it meets the bottom of the window. Its barely noticable, but i'm happy we caught it when we did, as it would only get worse. I have not seen it anywhere else, and hopefully the fix puts a stop to it, and it doesn't appear anywhere else. As I only have had the car for about 2+ months, I would be surprised that it could have been from the salt in such a short time, but you never know...the city just loves salt...
      Have a great time this weekend!!
      Ed.

    18. 04-19-2005 11:20 PM #18
      Congratulation on the family addition.

      Regarding the K. Paint, my understanding is that there is normally 4 coats of paint and clear and that the K. Paint finish adds 2 or 3 additional coats of paint and clear with sandy in between each to give it the smooth and deep finish.

      This is a question I will ask at the P. GTG this weekend.


    19. 04-19-2005 11:56 PM #19
      I had scrapedthe side of my car on construction barriers when a truck cut me off on I-90 heading in to chicago. The CouCou Gray is a metalic paint, and the body shop did a terrific job matching the paint. The side of the car that was painted looks as clear as the other side, no orange peel and a mirror smooth texture. it is the best paint job I have ever received.

      My last Audi was Pearlescent White, and that never had any issues. If that had been damaged in any way, matching it here inthe US is almost impossible. I loved that color and would love a Phaeton in that color, but I do like my CouCou gray with the anthrecite interior. Fairly conservative, clean and does not stand out too much. I don't like people thinking I am driving an expensive car, but I do like that not many people have one, or have even seen one where I live.


      Modified by dzier at 4:58 AM 4-20-2005


    20. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      04-20-2005 01:59 AM #20
      Quote, originally posted by viscount »
      ...are there 14 total coats of paint, 7 black/7 clear (for the black of course...) or just 3 installed at the factory?

      Hi Ed:

      I don't know how many coats of paint and/or clearcoat are applied when the carosserie is painted in Zwickau. I do have the repair instructions (I have attached the file below) - they call for two coats of clearcoat when repairs are made. That could be very different than how the Zwickau plant applies the surface finish.

      Concerning wipers - I know for sure what is causing your paint scratch problems. If you are purchasing fuel at a full serve station - the kind where the nice attendant washes the windshield for you - the attendant is lifting the wipers to get those last drops of water at the bottom. That's what is scratching the trailing edge of the hood- the wiper arms are rubbing against the trailing edge of the hood when the gas station attendant lifts them to get the squeegee underneath them. The wipers should not be lifted unless they are put in the special "change blade" position, using the Front Information Display and Control Panel.

      On the Phaeton, the wipers sit well below the clear area of the glass, and well out of the airflow. So, it is not necessary (and for sure, not desirable) to lift them and squeegee under them. Any water that remains at the bottom, near the wipers, will not blow up on the windshield once you start to drive the car.

      Michael

      Here's the Klavierlack clearcoat repair instructions:

      Attached Files
      Last edited by PanEuropean; 10-06-2012 at 12:21 AM.

    21. 04-20-2005 09:01 AM #21
      Ed,

      Congrats on the newest member of your family. You will be missed this weekend, but we'll get you the Cliff notes.

      Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

      Concerning wipers - I know for sure what is causing your paint scratch problems. If you are purchasing fuel at a full serve station - the kind where the nice attendant washes the windshield for you - the attendant is lifting the wipers to get those last drops of water at the bottom. That's what is scratching the trailing edge of the hood- the wiper arms are rubbing against the trailing edge of the hood when the gas station attendant lifts them to get the squeegee underneath them. The wipers should not be lifted unless they are put in the special "change blade" position, using the Front Information Display and Control Panel.

      I'm with Michael on the wiper situation. My former training vehicle had the same problem, caused by untrained and over zealous car wash attendants, sales people and service personnel. Funny thing, the new Jetta wipers are set up the same way.

      ~PC


    22. 04-20-2005 10:15 AM #22
      I'm glad you mentioned this Michael as I totally forgot about that feature.

    23. 04-20-2005 06:40 PM #23
      Hi Ed
      I am th other Phaeton owner with the same rust bubbles on the side trim as yours, and mine is due to go in the body shop Monday. BUT, I was not happy to hear the entire door panel must be repainted to replace the black applique. I am always hesitant to have anything repainted, since I doubt a body shop can match the color and depth of shine as the factory. (I'm fussy about stuff like that.) Are you sure they must repaint the entire door? I did not ask my dealer what the process involved; I just assumed the black trim would be replaced and that would be that.
      How did yours turnout?

    24. 04-20-2005 10:46 PM #24
      Thanks for the post- that makes sense! I only take the car to a hand wash place, but once a week could be doing it I guess. I have to call the body shop tomorrow as I thought he said only 2 coats went on the repair and for this finish it looks like they should be putting 2 more clearcoats on...thanks for posting that link.
      Ed.

    25. 04-20-2005 10:47 PM #25
      Hi PhaetonChix, cliffs notes would be great!!
      Ed

    26. 04-20-2005 10:51 PM #26
      Hi, I do not have my car back yet. The body shop is first rate- real professional but now I am having doubts about how many coats they will be applying....I have this ugly suspicion only 1 clearcoat which is not what is called for- there are 3 which are supposed to be applied. I wasn't happy about the whole door needing to be repainted either, but apparently its necessary. They will be putting some sort of insert in to seperate the steel and aluminum so it doesn't happen again. As you can tell, I'm a little crazy too...
      Ed.

    27. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      04-20-2005 11:21 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by viscount »
      ...They will be putting some sort of insert in to separate the steel and aluminum so it doesn't happen again...

      Wow. If the cause was contact between the aluminum door skin and the steel body, then that's galvanic corrosion, not something that is caused by any paint defect or body damage. But, it is serious nonetheless. I had no idea that was the cause, I thought it was as a result of water being trapped somewhere.

      Tony, are you bringing your Phaeton to Auburn Hills this weekend? I would sure like to see that. Note also that there are some technical bulletins out from VW explaining the importance of using only the exact correct type of fasteners to hold the aluminum door skins (and hood, trunk lid) in place, otherwise, galvanic corrosion will occur at each fastener. Hope the body shop knows about this. I'll try to get the TSB's for you.

      Michael


    28. 04-20-2005 11:52 PM #28
      interesting...I've never heard of galvonic corrosion before ...hopefully they will be aware of the correct remedy... I'll give them whatever links if you find them. Thanks a lot!!!!
      Ed.

    29. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      04-21-2005 01:22 AM #29
      Ed:

      Below is the warning about galvanic corrosion from the Phaeton Service Manual. I thought it was a TSB, but it is actually part of the manual. The red arrow identifies the chapter in the manual - in this case, chapter 55 - so your dealer can print this out and send it over to the body shop that is doing the work.

      Galvanic corrosion WILL occur whenever two dissimilar metals are in contact with each other. For this reason, it is critical that the aluminum and steel panels do not contact each other. It is even more critical that a third, different metal (such as a fastener) is not introduced between the two dissimilar metals - this is what the manual is warning against.

      Michael

      Phaeton Service Manual - Galvanic Corrosion Warning

      Last edited by PanEuropean; 10-06-2012 at 12:16 AM.

    30. 04-21-2005 08:10 AM #30
      Yes , Michael, I am driving the Phaeton up to A.H. There, you will see for yourself why I think this is a substandard-parts issue, unique to a few cars, and not something everyone should expect. The car is sitting in my garage now, recently polished, tank full, waiting to drive up into Michigan snow!
      I am now having second thoughts about having this repaired at all; I just don't like having the doors repainted. You may want to bring your camera to take some photos for the benefit of other vortex users.

    31. 04-21-2005 08:14 PM #31
      I just had a long chat with the owner of the shop doing my repairs who said he took many pictures of the repair process. I'd be happy to post them when I get them, but don't know how...
      Ed.

    32. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      04-21-2005 09:04 PM #32
      Just email them to me and I will host 'em and post 'em for you, then you can write the text.

      Michael

      Last edited by PanEuropean; 10-06-2012 at 12:21 AM.

    33. 04-21-2005 10:41 PM #33
      excellent, thanks Michael. He did not send them tonight, so hopefully tomorrow.
      Ed.

    34. 04-26-2005 07:31 PM #34
      The rust bubbles on my B and C pillars were replaced today to my satisfaction. The owner of the body shop himself (Quality Body Shop 878 Bowery St. Akron Oh 330-376-5121) Dave Vincent Sr. oversaw the complete job, and assured me no painting of any kind would be necessary. In fact, he commented the job went along "very easily".

      My car was in the parking lot of the Hampton Inn/Auburn Hills for 12 hours, and I wonder if Michael got a chance to take a picture of the defective appliques.

      How did yours turn out?


    35. 04-26-2005 07:47 PM #35
      Sure hated we didn't get to meet you. Glad to hear that the repairs went fine and dandy.

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