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    Thread: Nokian WR G2....

    1. Moderator bravocharlie's Avatar
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      01-08-2005 09:08 PM #1
      2010 Update to Original Post
      I just installed my fourth set of Nokians at 206,000 miles (71,000 on the last set & they barely passed inspection last month). I paid $196 installed.

      2008 Update to Original Post
      I just installed my third set of Nokians at 135,000 miles. The tire has been updated and redesigned. I paid $209 installed.
      The current link for the WR G2 is: http://www.nokiantires.com/tyr...WR+G2

      Overview
      By way of quick summary, I've got 30,000 miles on my V8 Touareg. At 12K miles, I had four new replacement Continental 4x4 Contacts (255/55/18) installed compliments of VWoA due to bad factory alignment. The replacement set wore fine but with 18K miles on them, they had little good tread left; particularly for a New Hampshire winter.
      Research / Options
      So, after following tire threads on the forum for the past year, I did my research. Early on, I was leaning toward the Yokohama Geolander H/T-S G052.

      http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...+G052
      Reviews of the Yoko were good and the specs seemed to be reasonable but I was losing some speed rating (V to H) which is not a big deal.
      http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...g.jsp
      The Contis have a rating of 360 AA, the Yokos have a rating of 460 AA.
      Then, this fall, someone posted something about Nokian coming out with a new all season performance tire. A true all season performance tire, one that carries the Severe Service emblem which indicates the tire exceeds snow condition regulations.
      At the time of the post, the tire was not yet available in the U.S. and I figured it might be worth the wait to see what it was all about. Plus, our New Hampshire winter this year was mild until this week when we finally got snow. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      I read the reviews of the Nokian WR, looked at their website and here's what I learned.
      109 weight rating, the same as the Conti and Yoko.
      V speed rating, same as OEM Contis.
      500 AA UTQG rating better than both Conti & Yoko.
      In the reviews that I was able to find, the Nokian WR tires that were tested were all on passenger cars. The SUV version of the tire had not yet been released.
      Common sense dictates that a tire can't be truly "all season" without giving up either handling/stability or bad weather traction. Regardless, that can be certainly said for the Conti which by no means is an "all season" tire if you factor snow into one of the four seasons. The Yoko seemed like a good alternative but with the Nokian's specs and the 50K manufacturer's warranty, I decided on the Nokian WR.

      http://www.nokiantires.com/tyr...WR+G2
      Cutting to the Chase
      I had the tire dealer put 40 psi in all four tires. Driving conditions on the way home from the tire store were wet roads with patches of packed snow here and there. Winds were gusting to 15 mph. For those who were here for the Fall Touareg Rally, one knows that we do not have many straight roads.
      The first test was to check stability and handling in corners. The Nokian performed just as well as the Conti. I noted no body roll or understeer.
      The second test was to open her up on a 4 mile stretch of straight road with some gusty winds. At 90 mph, the Touareg tracked straight and true. Tire noise is no different than the Contis. It is a very quiet tire.
      The next test was the bumpy secondary roads to see if the ride was different compared to the Contis. I noted no additional harshness in ride as reported in another thread.
      So with these three initial tests out of the way, I figured that the weak link of the tire must be its performance in snow and ice.
      Well, the tires got put to their final test this evening with six inches of fresh powder on the ground.
      The first check was braking action on snow covered roads at moderate speeds (30 to 45 mph). ABS action was almost non-existant as the tires did all the work. This is a remarkable improvement even when comparing to the snow performance of new Contis last year.
      The second check was hard acceleration from a stop. ESP action was virtually non-existant except for maybe a split second occasionally. The road were a combination of powder and packed powder with some glaze as well.
      The third test was windy backroads at moderate speeds to see if I could get the Touareg to go sideways. She wouldn't do it. She tracked straight and true. (For those who don't know how to drive in snow with all wheel drive, it is the constant power to the wheels that keeps you tracking straight or in a turn. Braking in a turn with all wheel drive may be detrimental to the your health and welfare of your vehicle.)
      Summary
      At $200 per tire, these tires are not cheap. But in this case, it appears you get what you pay for. The bottom line is that regardless of the reviews that you may read on the web, the Nokian WR is one incredible tire that is truly "all season". For those like me who don't want two sets of rims, I can't think of one other tire that comes close to the specs. and performance of this tire; even when considered two sets of tires (one for summer & one for winter). Time will tell how they wear, but with a manufacturer's 50K mile warranty, how can you go wrong?
      One final thought for those of you who don't see snow. As I mentioned previously, this is an excellent dry and wet weather tire. Its snow performance will most likely be similar in muddy offroad conditions as well. If you're looking for something other than a street slick summer performance tire....one you can take off road occasionally or not worry about high speed rain driving...this tire is for you too.
      http://www.nokiantires.com/tyr...WR+G2
      Update at 76,000
      At 76,000 miles, its time for tires. For those math impaired, that's 46,000 miles on the Nokians. I rotated them every 5,000 miles or so and got very even wear. Even when the treads were pretty worn near the end, they did exceptionally well in the rain.
      What am I buying next? Another set ordered from my local tire dealer. $229 each, installed.
      Modified by bravocharlie at 4:11 PM 12-26-2006



      Modified by bravocharlie at 8:41 AM 12-3-2008
      Last edited by bravocharlie; 12-15-2010 at 07:54 AM.

    2. 01-08-2005 10:58 PM #2
      Great write up BC. I'll likely check these out when it's time for me to get new tires.

      Thanks.


    3. 01-08-2005 11:38 PM #3
      What's the maximum psi?

    4. Moderator bravocharlie's Avatar
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      01-08-2005 11:47 PM #4
      Quote, originally posted by PabloP »
      What's the maximum psi?

      51 psi


    5. 01-08-2005 11:49 PM #5
      This is great info. Thanks!

    6. Moderator TREGinginCO's Avatar
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      01-09-2005 02:24 AM #6
      Great..... now if they would come out with one to fit the 17-inch wheel... I'd give it a look!!!

    7. 01-09-2005 08:32 AM #7
      I've been waiting for a write up like this. Thanks bravocharlie. If you're ever in KC BBQ is on me.

    8. 01-09-2005 09:55 AM #8
      What size 18's did you get?

    9. 01-09-2005 10:56 AM #9
      Quote, originally posted by TREGinginCO »
      Great..... now if they would come out with one to fit the 17-inch wheel... I'd give it a look!!!

      It's available in 235/65R17. I think this is the standard size on 17" wheels in Europe. See: http://www.nokiantires.com/new...id=17


    10. Moderator bravocharlie's Avatar
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      01-09-2005 11:17 AM #10
      Quote, originally posted by zbwmy »
      What size 18's did you get?

      255/55/18


    11. 01-09-2005 11:21 AM #11
      BC-

      Very nice write-up.

      I have a feeling that you just sold a bunch of these tires for Nokian. They should give you a free set.

      It is hard to believe that they are just as quiet as the Contis given the tread. Were they really quiet or are you comparing them to a bad set of Contis?

      Edit: Your link is to the passenger car version of the tire. They also have the tire in the SUV section under winter tire.



      Modified by theswami at 4:22 PM 1-9-2005


    12. Moderator bravocharlie's Avatar
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      01-09-2005 11:32 AM #12
      Quote, originally posted by theswami »
      It is hard to believe that they are just as quiet as the Contis given the tread. Were they really quiet or are you comparing them to a bad set of Contis?

      They are just as quiet as my even wearing contis. I paid special attention to highway noise going over to get my tires replaced to make sure it wasn't a figment of my imagination. I should also note that the tread pattern on the new Nokians is a lot deepr than that of the worn out Contis. Regardless, there was no noticeable difference in road noise.


    13. 01-09-2005 11:50 AM #13
      Thanks BC. This tire seems like the answer that Touareg owners have been looking for. My Contis seem fine after 12k but will keep the Nokian in mind when they wear out.

      The reviews of the Contis are not great but this is my first SUV and they seem pretty good to me. We'll see how they handle in the snow this year.


    14. 01-09-2005 12:03 PM #14
      http://www.canadiandriver.com/...n.htm

      FYI; Review from Canadian Driver:

      Tire Test:
      Nokian WR "All-Weather Plus"
      Story and photos by Haney Louka

      People make compromises in many aspects of life. Whether it's balancing financial priorities, demands on our time, or maybe it's as simple as what type of shoe to buy - we have to decide what's important and give a little on things that don't matter so much.

      It's no different with cars. What works best for you? A minivan? Pickup? Or a do-it-all crossover? Some people have the wherewithal to buy a different vehicle for each day of the week. But for the rest of us, we have to find one or two vehicles that manage to do everything reasonably well. Regardless of our financial situation, though, there's one thing we all need to do: get where we want to go safely. And in Canada, that means trudging through some of the most severe weather conditions around.

      Getting somewhere safely in your vehicle depends on many factors, one of the most important being the four little patches of rubber between your car and the road. And there's no greater compromise than all-season tires, meaning no single weather condition is completely taken care of. That means you're not getting complete dry, wet, or winter traction with a set of all-seasons.

      For most of us, that doesn't matter so much on dry pavement because the limits of adhesion are so high. But on wet, snowy, or icy surfaces, that limit becomes an all-too-often-approached threshold.

      Winter Tire Pros and Cons

      Most tire manufacturers produce dedicated winter tires that bear the severe service emblem (a snowflake on a mountain) on the sidewall. The emblem is used on tires that meet specific traction requirements on snow and ice at low temperatures, and is recognized by Transport Canada and the Rubber Association of Canada.

      While winter tires may be the best no-compromises response to winter driving conditions, there's a price. Tractability at low temperatures requires a softer rubber compound than all-seasons, and treadwear suffers as a result. In fact, winter tires do not even list treadwear ratings for comparison against all-seasons. Handling on dry pavement also suffers because the deep tread blocks and soft rubber compound result in a less direct connection to the road.

      There's a convenience issue as well: vehicles equipped with winter tires require a changeover to summers or all-seasons each spring and back again each fall. To some, that's not a big deal. To others, it's a compelling reason not to buy winter tires.

      The Answer?

      Nokian Tyres, the Finnish manufacturer of Hakkapeliitta winter tires, may have the answer: the WR "All-Weather Plus" tire. While that may sound like a fancy name for all-seasons, there's an important distinction: these tires bear the severe service emblem, and at the same time carry a pro rata treadwear warranty of 80,000 km.

      Nokian WR
      Click image to enlarge
      The WR features a silica rubber compound and an 'arrowhead' directional tread pattern that is designed to expel water and snow while allowing the tread blocks to remain in contact with the ground. There's also a unique feature called the "driving safety indicator," which incorporates numbers displayed along the centre of the tire's tread in addition to the usual wear bars. These numbers, when the tire is new, read "8 6 4" indicating the number of millimetres of tread depth remaining. As the tire wears, the higher numbers disappear and provide an excellent gauge for drivers wanting to know how much life is left in their tires.

      Put Them to the Test

      But now that Nokian's marketing mavens have cast the hook, it's time to bite and see what these tires can really do. Kal Tire installed a set of WRs on my VW Jetta in the dead of Winnipeg's winter and I have been driving on them ever since.

      As a winter tire, the WRs performed admirably. In deep snow, they didn't bite quite as well as some of the better winter tires I've sampled, but certainly enough to keep me mobile through some pretty deep white stuff. And definitely better than any all-season tire I've tried.

      Nokian WR
      Click image to enlarge
      Likewise on ice and hard, frozen surfaces: traction was at least as good as the average winter tire, and notably better than the Dunlop Graspics I tested the winter before. That the WRs did this well in winter and didn't require a changeover in the spring is where I see the real value in these tires.

      Once the snow melted (finally) and the rain started pouring, the WRs once again proved their mettle. They effectively channeled water away from under them in deep water to maximize the contact area between the tire and the road. Wet braking grip is similarly impressive, as there is no discernible difference in this respect between WRs and the all-seasons that they replaced.

      But, like every compromise, there has to be a drawback. And with the WR, that sacrifice is made in dry weather performance. Don't get me wrong: they are perfectly acceptable in all summer driving conditions, but if you're one who places precise handling and accurate, high-speed stability at the top of your list, the WRs will disappoint.

      Under normal driving conditions around town, there are no drawbacks to this tire. But throw a fast corner or quick zig-zag into the mix, and the lack of precision makes itself evident. There's a floaty, disconnected feeling that will have performance fiends cringing. But it's those same fanatics that don't see a problem with owning two sets of tires.

      Nokian WR
      Click image to enlarge
      On the highway, the tires are reasonably quiet and offer very good ride quality. In strong cross-winds, more steering correction is required because the tires' tread blocks allow the car to stray off the intended path more easily. And during high-speed passing on two-lanes, the same issue arises: concentration is required to keep the car on the straight and narrow. I should note, though, that this was only an issue during, um, very high speed passing on two lanes. The average two-lane pass occurred drama-free.

      The WRs won't win any beauty contests. True to their function, they do look more like a winter than an all season tire. That means chunky sidewall shoulders, deep tread blocks, and a slightly tall, narrow appearance compared with other brands of the same size tire. But again, only true fanatics will find an issue here.

      To Sum It Up

      So the WR hasn't broken any rules: it's still a compromise. But its priorities have been shuffled compared with most all season tires: winter and wet traction are most important, and dry performance, while good, is clearly not the WR's forte.

      In our harsh Canadian climate, I recommend using dedicated winter tires to everybody. But if you don't want the hassle and expense of owning two sets of tires, the Nokian WR is the next best thing.

      More Test Drives....

      Haney Louka is a Professional Engineer, a member of the Automobile Journalists Association of Canada, and a long time automotive enthusiast.


    15. 01-09-2005 12:03 PM #15
      may be some one could arrange for a group buy rate" ?

    16. 01-09-2005 12:12 PM #16
      Sizes available: http://www.nokiantyres.com/suv...R+SUV

      235/75R15 105 T
      235/75R16 108 T
      225/70R16 103 H
      235/70R16 105 H
      245/70R16 108 H
      255/70R16 111 H
      265/70R16 114 H
      265/70R17 113 H
      215/65R16 98 H
      255/65R16 109 H
      235/65R17 108 V XL
      245/65R17 107 H XL
      275/60R17 111 H
      235/60R18 107 V XL
      225/55R17 101 V XL
      255/55R17 104 H
      275/55R17 113 H XL
      255/55R18 109 V


    17. 01-09-2005 01:59 PM #17
      i have the 19" rims, and rarely go into the snow, except for some skiing (live in southern cal). this winter really has me thinking about safety, chains, etc. any thoughts/recommendations for 19"?

      thanks


    18. 01-09-2005 03:15 PM #18
      I believe that VW says one can't put chains on the 19" tires and I don't think any all season 19" tires are available [with only a 45 side wall, they probably won't work very well in snow anyway]; so I guess you would need to go with new wheels and either 18" [55 side wall]or 17" tires [60 side wall]; which could accommodate chains on all season or winter tires.

    19. 01-10-2005 11:42 AM #19
      Did a 250 mile run this weekend on the new Nokians. Highway, backroad & dirt/gravel road dealing with the last of the 14.3" of snow we got out here last week. Once again, the Nokians far outshine the Conti's. As much as I enjoyed the sportier feel of the Treg over the LX470 I traded, the Nokians take it one step further. To clarify my statement on another thread; I feel these tires are somewhat firmer than the Conti's (not harsher) in a sporty sense, but it's something I prefer. 3 hours of 2 lane highway driving Saturday was a pleasure. Quiet and in control. Now wind noise is truly the loudest outside sound at 60 mph+.

      To repeat myself and BC, I haven't been able to get ABS or ESP to engage with these tires under hard driving and some pretty rotten road conditions. Even a panic stop because of 3 white tail deer on a wet road at night (21F) from 65 mph was straight and controlled without ABS kicking in. These tires have been doing all the work. You'd think with all the tread blocks and siping you'd get alot of noise and side to side roll or floating but that's just not the case.

      On wash board dirt roads the Nokians tracked true without hopping and gave me great road feel, all the while working with the air suspension and keeping the ride very pleasant.

      My only concern with these tires is the sense of overconfidence they inspire. I've found myself taking on some onroad/offroad challenges that I never would have with the Conti's. But then again the Nokians have yet to let me down.


    20. 01-10-2005 01:35 PM #20
      Great info guys! And a nice write-up to start off the thread, BC. You now have me second-guessing my decision to replace my Pirelli's with the Geolanders when the time comes.

      It's obvious the Nokians are great in the messy stuff, but that must come at a price in dry weather, as the above article mentioned. I know it's the middle of winter, but can any of you try and quantify how much feel you lose during dry weather handling? I would really hate to give up the sporting characteristics of an all-season that's balanced a little more to the summer, like I have found the Pirelli's (and heard the Yoko's) to be.


    21. 01-10-2005 04:23 PM #21
      As stated above and also at http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1636761 I drove these on dry pavement for a couple of days prior to our snow storm and essentially yesterday and today on dry pavement. The Nokians grip at least as well as the Contis in my opinion with less roll; definitely a more sporty feel. I don't think they're up to a dedicated summer high performance tire; but I've yet to be able to get them to breakaway on dry pavement at anything approaching rational driving. And no breakaway at full acceleration in sport mode either.



      Modified by Bullit at 8:38 AM 1-17-2005

    22. 01-10-2005 04:48 PM #22
      I had the Nokian WR on my wife's Pontiac Vibe. The size is 205/55/16.
      The only complaint that I had was after about 30,000 miles, the tires became too noisy. It was like riding on tires made of rock. Keep in mind that the Nokians have a 50,000 miles warranty. There was still plenty of treads, just that the noise was driving my wife to the point of insanity. Couldn't stand them anymore and decided to buy a new set of Goodyear Assurance ComforTreads. These Goodyears are as quiet as a mouse.


      Modified by samspassat at 9:51 PM 1-10-2005

    23. 01-11-2005 12:21 PM #23
      BC, Thanks for the "good word" I had ordered the Nokians last Wed. and they came in on Friday but I was out Fri-Mon. Was supposed to get them put on tomorrow but we are supposed to get freezing rain and ice tomorrow so I asked the dealer to put them on today. Always makes you feel better when you spend that much on something that you do not know a whole lot about, and then you get positive comments back. Will let you guys know what I experience here in WI.

      KF


    24. 01-11-2005 11:07 PM #24
      I'd like to add my $.02 to this discussion by saying that last year I bought a new set of 16" wheels and mounted Nokian WR tires to them. I drove them until a few weeks after our first snow this winter and I have to say they are easily the best all season tyres I've ever owned. They don't hold a candle to my studded Gisloved snow tires (in snow), but then the Gisloved tires are only good on snow and they're loud and handle poorly on the pavement and add a considerable amount of rolling friction because they actually grip dry pavement too well.

      When I mounted the 16" Nokians and drove around with them a while I saw that my gas mileage actually improved too! You can't go wrong with these tires and at $200 they're a bargain considering the improved safety factor. Don't forget to get an alignment when you have them installed.


    25. 01-12-2005 07:42 PM #25
      Just remember that dry road handling may worsen in summer heat as compared to freezing temperatures

    26. 01-12-2005 07:57 PM #26
      I like the feed back on how positive dry and wet traction are with this tire (during the winter) because lets face it, unless you are in the far north or in "real" mountainous areas, most of the time we are not riding on snow covered roads (this is true even on my VT trips, I probably get 2 snow days out of the week), but these tires seem like the perfect winter tire for me because you guys say they inspire confidence in all aspects of driving. Despite this, I will definitely change to summer tires after mud season when temperatures heat up because theres nothing like a true summer tire (in the summer!)

    27. 01-13-2005 09:59 PM #27
      I just ordered these nokian tires from a local tire dealer. 230 per tire installed. Am I paying too much?

    28. 01-13-2005 11:44 PM #28
      I hope not, I just paid the same installed + disposal fee + balance. Am happy so far--will see how they do in the bad weather over the WE. BTW, the low pressure sensor system remains on despite 41 lbs in each tire--will increase rears to 45 in the AM. Do I have to get something reset?

    29. 01-13-2005 11:49 PM #29
      I don't think you're being taken. The pricing is all over the board depending on availability and your location. Our supplier is trying to work us a deal on a bulk order and the information is not fast in coming. They think I will be able to sell the 18" tire for about $189.00 plus installation. ( We get 18.50 per tire for a mount and balance 1 time and rotate and balance for free for the life of the tire )

      We just don't know how many are available and when we can get them. I will post as soon as I know. I should be able to UPS these to those of you who are not local. Again, we are checking into this also. We are attempting to get the best deal for fellow Egg owners everywhere for the benefit of all.


    30. 01-14-2005 12:15 AM #30
      Quote, originally posted by Kenneth L »
      BTW, the low pressure sensor system remains on despite 41 lbs in each tire--will increase rears to 45 in the AM. Do I have to get something reset?

      Did you go into the MFI and select "Learn pressure" (or whatever it says exactly)? If so, you may have a defective sensor that was broken during installation of the new tires (happened to me). If not, you need to do that.


    31. 01-14-2005 09:45 AM #31
      mdjak

      Just had the Nokians installed on Tuesday for $225/tire. This included all taxes, mounting and balancing. I checked a lot of tire dealers and this was the best I found in my area. So far I really like them, now I just need some new snow to really test them out

      KF


    32. Senior Member
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      01-14-2005 09:57 AM #32
      Quote, originally posted by 12punch »
      So far I really like them, now I just need some new snow to really test them out

      KF

      Maybe Tuesday: http://www.wunderground.com/US/WI/Madison.html


    33. 01-15-2005 09:40 AM #33
      You're busy? You have way too much time on your hands. Where do you come up with these things? Is your brain a computer always connected to Google?


    34. 01-17-2005 12:30 PM #34
      Thanks for the write up BC. Very thorough and informative as usual.

      I purchased new tires about two months ago, and the two finalists were the Nokian WRs and the Michelin 4x4 XPCs. I run the 19s in the summer, so I was looking for a tire that was good off-road, in the snow, and in the rain which is so common here in Seattle.

      I went with the XPCs for two reasons. First, a Nokian dealer actually told me that a heavily siped (sp ??) tire like the WR would not last if used off-road in rocky terrain. He said the sharp rocks would take chunks out of the tire because of the heavy siping (sp ??). Second, the WRs were not available in my area two months ago.

      Now for my impression of the XPCs. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...4+XPC The ride is exceptional...very smooth. The handling is not up to par with the 19" P Rossos or the 18" Pirelli Scorpions. They are "R" rated versus the higher speed rating on the Pirellis so the sidewall probably is not as stiff. They are not any nosier that the Pirellis. Last weekend I got into some snow, and they performed well. I was on logging roads with about 10" of packed/fresh snow over sheet ice, and had no problems once I turned the ESP off. However going down hills (fairly steep), I had a hard time getting the Touareg to a complete stop. It is a very heavy beast to stop on snow and ice. The XPCs are great in the rain...no issues with hydroplaning at all. And finally they look great.


    35. 01-19-2005 05:09 PM #35
      Just to add my .02C. I purchase Nokian dedicated snow Haka's for my V8 w/ 255/55/18. I have tire pressures set at 40F/44R and with a Thule carrier on top am getting 17.3 mpg. I also got road care for the tires which means they will put my conti's back on when it warms up for free. Total cost including road care $248. Yes that is expensive but w/ free tire swaps its worth it.I have driven close to 1200 miles on them at all speeds and in snow up in VT and love them. I would highly reccommend them to anyone interested in dedicated snows.

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