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    Thread: 1.8T Engine into B2/B3/B4 Frame

    1. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      01-11-2005 09:20 PM #1
      PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS THREAD IS IN DIRE NEED OF AN UPDATE! IF ANYONE HAS ANYMORE HIGH QUALITY IMAGES THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH ME PLEASE SEND THEM TO MY EMAIL.
      I WILL UPDATE THE THREAD SOON ENOUGH WHEN I HAVE TIME!


      Getting the Physical Engine in there is no problem once you have the required parts.Please bare in mind that I have never carried out a 20V swap into either of these frames but I have owned and still only own FWD Audi 80's with 4 cylinder engines so the knowledge is still there(I Hope ).Please feel free to correct me and add to the thread @ any time.
      So here goes...ROUND 2

      Quote, originally posted by John Doe »
      How do I transplant an AEB engine into my B2/B3/B4 Frame

      Well if you own an Audi B frame and it has the aluminum base mount then your in luck.The following cars made by VAG carried the aluminum base mount but were also equipped with a 4 cylinder engine.
      ABK - Euro Audi 80 2.0E
      ABT - Euro Audi 80 2.0E
      ADR - Audi 80 Carbrio with NA 20V
      In the picture below you can clearly see the aluminum base mount found in the 7A/NG cars except the engine is a 4 cylinder.

      Below illustrates just the chassis + aluminum base mount:

      Now once you have obtained the engine mount bracket from the ABK/ABT,you can mount the AEB into the 7A/NG Frame.The ABK mount bracket carries the same 4 holes as the AEB

      Quote, originally posted by John Doe »
      What about a Hybrid ABA/AEB engine

      The same concept applies as above except you need to make a custom adapter plate to convert the left side engine mount from a 3 hole to 4 hole.Once the plate is made,weld (3) studs into the plate to accept the ABK engine mount bracket.When making the plate,start with the Tapped common hole which the ABK & ABA share and work your way through until you have covered all 6 mounting points.In the picture below the far left AEB mounting point is incorrect.There is a tapped hole next to it,thats the AEB far left mounting position.I didnt pick this up before...

      Quote, originally posted by John Doe »
      I own a FWD Audi 80 Equipped with a 3A,What do I do?

      The bad news is that the FWD Audi 80 has an engine that mounts to its subframe and not chassis.The good news is you have options in terms of hybrids.You can either
      1. Build a 3A/AEB Hybrid
      2. Build a custom 4 hole to 3 stud adapter plate so that you can use you stock 3A engine mount brackets.

      This brings me to my next point.

      Quote, originally posted by John Doe »
      How do I fit a 20V on a 3A block?

      Pretty much how you would fit an 8V or 16V Head on an old style block such as 9A/3A/PG/PM.You would have to Block these 3 oil drain holes with 5/8 set screws pictured here:

      Quote, originally posted by John Doe »
      What about the Distributor on a 20V Head?

      For this your going to need the following pieces:

      Quote, originally posted by What Gears to Use »

      1. CAM GEAR:
      16V Cam Gear
      Stock 20V/16V Cam Gear has 52 Teeth

      2. CRANK GEAR: 16v crank gear STOCK but an ABA crank pullye shaved 5.5mm with a new centering ring pressed in. Scirocco20v mods them for $10 if you supply it.or you can do it yourself.
      Stock 8V Crank Gear has 22 teeth
      Stock 16V/20V Crank Gear has 26 teeth

      3. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT GEAR:
      Combination of a 20V Cam Gear and an 8V Intermediate shaft.dont mod the gear...Mod the keyway in the IM shaft to fit the gear. The 8v used a press in half mood key way and the 20v cam gear uses a molded in 1/4 moon. It wont fit unless a path is cut in the IM shaft to fit the key on the gear to. Now the 16v may be the same outside specs...But the spacing on the mounting hub is different. The 16v one sets the gear to far in and requires a spacer...
      If Building PG 20V Combination - Use PG IM SHAFT
      If Building ABA 20V Combination - Use ABA IM SHAFT
      If Building AEG/AEB Comboination - No IM SHAFT

      4. TIMINT BELT:
      Prelude Timing Belt:
      1.contitech part # CT 879 (155 teeth)

      2.Gates timing Belt from Napa (Thanks Scirocco20v) - $93 @ Napa
      Its a 155T belt that comes on 92-98 2.2l VTEC motors.

      3. OEM Honda - $63 @ Dealer
      92-98 Honda Prelude 2.2l VTEC
      Honda part # : 14400-P13-014

      Quote, originally posted by John Doe »
      Suppose I just want to do a Direct Transplant no strings attached

      There are always strings attached but the good news is that for every problem there is a solution.Pictured below is a 3A/9A Block and as you can see there are only 3 holes for the left side engine mount bracket.

      Now comparing this to the AEB pictures above,You will have to use an adapter plate that bolts into the AEB block and has 3 studs sticking out of it to allow the use of a 3A engine mount bracket.

      Quote, originally posted by John Doe »
      What about the Right Side engine mount?

      All the holes in the AEB are the same as 3A/9A/ABA/ABK/ABT/PG/etc so not to worry.

      Quote, originally posted by John Doe »
      How do I control the engine?

      You can either transplant the entire AEB harness which can get rather nasty or you can do a clean install using 034EFi Stage Ic Like I am using.If you plan on staying with a 3A/AEB combination then use 16V Plug wires.Scirocco20V displayed these pictures today of his 20V running a distributor in the block

      Quote, originally posted by John Doe »
      Ok so now that the engine is in there,what do I do about my radiator etc?

      You obtain all the mounting hardware,radiator etc etc from a FWD Audi 80 in order to make your side mounted radiator become front mounted.If you have a Front Mounted radiator allready then this does not apply to you.

      Well thats it,I would like to thank John for making the photos available on the net and hopefully if everything goes according to plan,this should be your end result.
      Courtesy of RPI Equipped:


      Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 2:44 PM 12-29-2005


      Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 5:09 PM 5-18-2008


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      01-12-2005 06:47 PM #2
      Awesome Writeup! Thankyou for sharing!

    3. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      01-13-2005 03:54 AM #3
      Quote, originally posted by BennyGTI »
      Awesome Writeup! Thankyou for sharing!

      No Problem.Hopefully Duandcc will make this one a sticky.


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      01-13-2005 11:47 PM #4
      Thanks for the write-up

      However I still have a few questions though, keep in mind this is referring to a 5cyl 20v to 1.8T swap in a Coupe Quattro:

      What clutch/pressure plate/flywheel do you have to run?

      So the ABK drivers side mount is needed, but what about the passenger side? Will the stock 5cyl mount work? If so, which one specifically, because I've seen a couple different aluminum passenger mounts.

      You mention making an adapter plate for use with the ABA block and ABK mount, but would it be possible to make an adapter plate to use the AEB block and stock 5cyl mount? I'm asking because I imagine the ABK mount would be hard to get ahold of in North America.

      And for a front mount/support, I'm guessing something would have to be fabbed? seeing as the 1.8T is a fair bit shorter (less a cyl)

      Thanks in advance


    5. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      01-14-2005 12:00 AM #5
      Quote, originally posted by Kaddy »
      Thanks for the write-up
      However I still have a few questions though, keep in mind this is referring to a 5cyl 20v to 1.8T swap in a Coupe Quattro:

      np

      Quote, originally posted by Kaddy »

      What clutch/pressure plate/flywheel do you have to run?

      I assume Audi A4 1.8T Hardware since the 5Cyl Gearbox has a dual bolt pattern.

      Quote, originally posted by Kaddy »

      So the ABK drivers side mount is needed, but what about the passenger side? Will the stock 5cyl mount work? If so, which one specifically, because I've seen a couple different aluminum passenger mounts.

      You will need the passenger Side mount as well from the ABK.I have no idea if Audi 5Cyl mount brackets will work as I have never seen anyone use them before.

      Quote, originally posted by Kaddy »

      You mention making an adapter plate for use with the ABA block and ABK mount, but would it be possible to make an adapter plate to use the AEB block and stock 5cyl mount? I'm asking because I imagine the ABK mount would be hard to get ahold of in North America.

      I guess it is possible to make a Stock 5cyl mount bracket work on the AEB block but why go through all that hassle when you can have an OEM look.Getting a part in NA is only hard if you have no contacts abroad.Someone in here should be able to order it for you.

      Quote, originally posted by Kaddy »

      And for a front mount/support, I'm guessing something would have to be fabbed? seeing as the 1.8T is a fair bit shorter (less a cyl)
      Thanks in advance

      Nothing should have to be fabbed since the 3A was a 4Cyl Audi 80.You may have to upgrade the front support for a stiffer Snub mount and big intercooler though

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      01-14-2005 12:03 AM #6
      Thanks for the quick reply

      Now the big question, would it be possible to get part numbers for the ABK mounts?


    7. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      01-20-2005 08:58 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by Kaddy »
      Thanks for the quick reply

      Now the big question, would it be possible to get part numbers for the ABK mounts?

      sorry dont have an ETKA handy..if someone has it that would be great


    8. 01-21-2005 09:34 AM #8
      Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

      sorry dont have an ETKA handy..if someone has it that would be great

      Then I guess this could help you guys:


    9. 01-24-2005 11:08 PM #9
      lookin nice... total cost?

    10. Member boner's Avatar
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      02-10-2005 02:17 PM #10
      cost is ALWAYS going to depend on how you do it and how good your are at scoring parts. for example,i've heard of 1.8Ts being found for less than a grand as well as over 2. then there's labour, you and your buddies do it, all it costs is a few late nigths and a couple cases of beer, you pay someone and it'll cost thousands.

      in all hybrid swaps there is no fixed price, it will always vary. obviously, things can be done on a budget but you could spend $5000 very easily


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      03-26-2005 03:58 PM #11
      I'm really comtemplating the B5 S4 motor swap into my car, something about a twin turbo v6 that turns me on...I cant forsee it being too dificult of a swap. I believe they use the same motor mounts even.

    12. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      03-27-2005 08:45 AM #12
      Quote, originally posted by BennyGTI »
      I'm really comtemplating the B5 S4 motor swap into my car, something about a twin turbo v6 that turns me on...I cant forsee it being too dificult of a swap. I believe they use the same motor mounts even.

      How you going to clear the turbo's on those frame rails


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      03-27-2005 03:27 PM #13
      Hmmm, not sure, but it has to be possible...

      http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB...=2580


    14. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      03-27-2005 08:12 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by BennyGTI »
      Hmmm, not sure, but it has to be possible...

      http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB...=2580

      Notice the author of that thread....
      The frame rails were modified to fit the turbo's.....


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      03-27-2005 10:13 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »
      Notice the author of that thread....
      The frame rails were modified to fit the turbo's.....

      which is the reason I posted it... you obviously knew it was possible, but in your post originally it was in a mannor like "It can not be done". Just wanted to know what was involved.


    16. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      03-28-2005 12:56 AM #16
      Quote, originally posted by BennyGTI »

      your post originally it was in a mannor like "It can not be done". Just wanted to know what was involved.

      Dunno how you got this from this:

      Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »
      How you going to clear the turbo's on those frame rails

      but cool... .Do it and let us know what happens.


    17. 04-12-2005 06:55 AM #17
      Ok, so I called my Audi dealer to find out the pricing on the mount brackets, and they didnt have any listing for part numbers
      8AO 199 307 B or C, but they had 8A0 199 307 E

      and they didnt have #8A0 199 308 but the did have 8A0 199 308 G.

      Do you guys think these part numbers would work? Or do these have to be ordered from Europe?

      thanks


    18. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      04-12-2005 01:27 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by turbo kid »
      Ok, so I called my Audi dealer to find out the pricing on the mount brackets, and they didnt have any listing for part numbers
      8AO 199 307 B or C, but they had 8A0 199 307 E

      and they didnt have #8A0 199 308 but the did have 8A0 199 308 G.

      Do you guys think these part numbers would work? Or do these have to be ordered from Europe?

      thanks

      No Idea,just tell them you want the brackets for a Euro B4 Audi 80


    19. 04-12-2005 11:11 PM #19
      awesome stuff! im trying to put an Audi 5000 turbo Quattro into my 92 golf, but ive been havin a **** of a time finding any helpful info that i can use... this helps a lot!

    20. 04-20-2005 05:09 PM #20
      Pretty much i am... ive already built a custom front subframe to clear the tranny with mounts on it for the tranny...
      Gotta work out the front mounts yet... VW/Audi want almost $600 for the two front mounts! thats more than i paid for both cars... well, almost...
      I mite use something from a fox, gotta see how their motors mount up...

    21. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      04-20-2005 05:20 PM #21
      Quote, originally posted by GolfDraggin »
      Pretty much i am... ive already built a custom front subframe to clear the tranny with mounts on it for the tranny...
      Gotta work out the front mounts yet... VW/Audi want almost $600 for the two front mounts! thats more than i paid for both cars... well, almost...
      I mite use something from a fox, gotta see how their motors mount up...

      ubernugen.com sells the aluminum base engine mount @ a fairly good price.My advice would be to locate a Quattro Subframe and weld on the mounting tabs from a 3A Audi 80 onto it.That way you can mount the gearbox,engine/subframe combination all in one go.


    22. 04-20-2005 06:30 PM #22
      I dont know if i was clear about the mounts... I still have the aluminum arms that bolt up to the block... what i need is the rubber part that bolts onto the end of the arm and also bolts onto the body (or framerail) of the car...
      Its part #5 (or position #5) on the EKTA screenshot above...

    23. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      05-01-2005 02:47 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by GolfDraggin »
      I dont know if i was clear about the mounts... I still have the aluminum arms that bolt up to the block... what i need is the rubber part that bolts onto the end of the arm and also bolts onto the body (or framerail) of the car...
      Its part #5 (or position #5) on the EKTA screenshot above...

      which block is this that you have the *aluminum* mounts mounted to?


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      08-06-2005 08:09 PM #24
      Anyone know if the mounts from a Euro 95 Audi A4 (engine code ADR, 4cyl na 20v) will work vs. the ABT/ABK brackets? The part #'s are very similar.

      ABT/ABK #'s: 8A0 199 307
      8A0 199 308

      ADR #'s: 8D0 199 307L
      8D0 199 308L

      Thanks!

      Mark.
      75 Scirocco
      80 Scirocco S
      90 Audi Coupe Quattro - 10vt


    25. Senior Member MFZERO's Avatar
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      08-20-2005 08:29 PM #25
      good stuff

    26. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      12-29-2005 02:48 PM #26
      Quote, originally posted by Mardak »
      Anyone know if the mounts from a Euro 95 Audi A4 (engine code ADR, 4cyl na 20v) will work vs. the ABT/ABK brackets? The part #'s are very similar.

      ADR mounts are for B5 chassis
      ABT/ABK are for B4/B3 chassis
      so wont work

      I updated the thread.I made a mistake with the ABK/ABT brackets.On the 9A/3A engine,both the passenger side and driver side bracket need adapter to work,however on the ABA engine as stated before,only the drivers side bracket (Left-Hand Drive Vehicles) needs an adapter plate.


    27. 01-07-2006 01:24 PM #27
      I'm looking to put a complete 1.8t from a 2002 jetta into my 90q. I've read this thread, but still wonder how the starter will be mounted it i'm using the 1.8t block? The audi starter is located on the passenger side of the engine and mounts through an opening on the rear of the block. The 1.8t block doesn't have provisions for this.
      Ideas? suggestions?
      Thanks

    28. 01-07-2006 01:44 PM #28
      I don't believe you can use the jetta's 1.8t, just the a4/passat 1.8t.

    29. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      02-11-2006 06:20 PM #29
      More to come




    30. Member Shawn M.'s Avatar
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      02-22-2006 02:55 PM #30
      pardon my ignorance, but how much of this holds true for swaping this motor into a 4000 quattro?

    31. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      02-23-2006 02:44 AM #31
      Quote, originally posted by Shawn M. »
      pardon my ignorance, but how much of this holds true for swaping this motor into a 4000 quattro?

      Its pretty much the same thing since the 4000Q has the same frame rail mounts as the B3 Quattro/B4 FWD (europe).

    32. Member Shawn M.'s Avatar
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      02-23-2006 08:40 AM #32
      what clutch set up is used, A4 or 4kq

    33. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      02-23-2006 09:49 AM #33
      Quote, originally posted by Shawn M. »
      what clutch set up is used, A4 or 4kq

      Audi A4,more off the shelf aftermarket parts are available for it...

    34. Member Shawn M.'s Avatar
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      03-03-2006 11:52 AM #34
      and its compatable with the 4kq tranny, input shaft etc

    35. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      03-05-2006 11:32 PM #35
      Quote, originally posted by Shawn M. »
      and its compatable with the 4kq tranny, input shaft etc

      Nope,wont work with a 016 unless its a FWD Inline-4 or European Inline-4 Quattro 4000.You will need a 01A from an Audi 90.

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