16V G60 - How to

[sdezego]

Quote, originally posted by herby53-akaherby53 »

...if i just take the center out of a adj 16v and bolt it to a adj 8v gear, it will work. now who is the wizard on this? IS THE CAM ROTATION RPM THE SAME FRO A 16V AS A 8V , GIVING THAT THE TWO BELTS HAVE MORE TEETH ? ie: will the 16v cams move at the wrong speed because of the 8v belt being used. i see it as the same speed as long as i have the 8v crank gear and the 8v cam gear. to much thinking

Cam Gear rotation is the same.

I was wondering the same thing, (mod'ing the 44 tooth 8v cam gear to work on 16v cam using the adj sprockets). I know the adj cam gears guts likely won't interchange w/o some work, but that seems minimal.

Since (2 revs of motor = 1 rev of cam):

8V = 22/44 = .5
16V =26/52 = .5

Is the 16V belt is wider and stronger than the 8V (thus the need for machining the back of the crank pulley to pull it back in)? ..maybe an alignment issue that can be corrected with the mod'ed cam gear?

Shawn



Modified by sdezego at 2:08 AM 1-21-2005

[OttawaG60]

As long as you use the same cam gear and crank gear the rotation will be fine.
The 16v belt is wider, probably because there is more load on the belt and higher revs.
Shave down a G60 pulley 6mm if you're worried about $$ otherwise order the crank pulley from BBM etc.

[YeloCorado]

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

Did you custom make that TB elbow yourself?

Yeh because one night a kid broke into my car and stole my BBM one. ha ha. I wonder if he pitched it in the trash because he diddnt know what to do with it..

[Issam Abed]

Quote, originally posted by YeloCorado »

Yeh because one night a kid broke into my car and stole my BBM one. ha ha. I wonder if he pitched it in the trash because he diddnt know what to do with it..

I would hope thats not sarcasm

[herby53-akaherby53]

Quote, originally posted by OttawaG60 »

As long as you use the same cam gear and crank gear the rotation will be fine. The 16v belt is wider, probably because there is more load on the belt and higher revs. Shave down a G60 pulley 6mm if you're worried about $$ otherwise order the crank pulley from BBM etc.

i have a shaved interme. shaft in the motor now and i already sold the oil pump , interm shaft, oil pump gear for the 16v , so i am running 8v internals right now, so it will save me time and money to just swap out the center of cam gear. should be the same.

[herby53-akaherby53]

look just like my je pistons, ( as much shaved off them )
good work

[herby53-akaherby53]

here is another one for you guys, i think that i have heard that a 20v crank pulley will work on this setup. is this true, i am looking at the turn2 power pulley and i think that i may use it, do you know if it will bolt up to a 9a crank, should but looking for thoughts. thanks

http://www.turn2usa.com/Mercha...ulley

theres the link to it


Modified by herby53-akaherby53 at 9:14 PM 1-24-2005

[OttawaG60]

Quote, originally posted by herby53-akaherby53 »

here is another one for you guys, i think that i have heard that a 20v crank pulley will work on this setup. is this true, i am looking at the turn2 power pulley and i think that i may use it, do you know if it will bolt up to a 9a crank, should but looking for thoughts. thanks http://www.turn2usa.com/Mercha...ulley Modified by herby53-akaherby53 at 9:14 PM 1-24-2005

Looks close, but you'd need to compare them for sure.
Anyone got a 1.8T crank they want to send me, I'll compare and let you know.

[OttawaG60]

That looks like plenty of customization, I'd perfer to see it lined up with the G60

[herby53-akaherby53]

maybe i can pick one up ( turn2 ) and if it doesnt line up just return it . looks like i have to do something , just not gonna be for sure on it till i have them in my hand. let you know how it goes.

[Scirocco20v]

the 1.8t crank pulley lines up with the vr6 water pump pulley and aba alt. set up when used on a 16v crank gear. So if you guys are shaving your G60 pullies or modding ABA units by 6mm IIRC then the 1.8t pulley will work.

[herby53-akaherby53]

so with that said , then the 1.8t pulley will bolt up to the crank and i will have to play around and see what other pulleys will line up with it to run a 8v crank gear . i also have to check mixing a 16v cam gear with a 8v one.

[OttawaG60]

Quote, originally posted by Scirocco20v »

the 1.8t crank pulley lines up with the vr6 water pump pulley and aba alt. set up when used on a 16v crank gear. So if you guys are shaving your G60 pullies or modding ABA units by 6mm IIRC then the 1.8t pulley will work.

I shaved an ABA 6mm to line up with the G60.
If I understand you correctly.
If I take a 9A, bolt on the 1.8T crank pulley, it'll line up with the G60.
Correct?

[Scirocco20v]

Correct

[Issam Abed]

Ottawa G60 do you have an ABA tensioner bracket knocking around?

[OttawaG60]

Quote, originally posted by Scirocco20v »

Correct

Very interesting, how come this hasn't popped up before?
Time to get me a 1.8T crank pulley

[OttawaG60]

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

Ottawa G60 do you have an ABA tensioner bracket knocking around?

No, my place is an ABA free zone, check with Chad, I'm sure he must have one.
I'm using the stock G60 tensioner

[lucmb94]

so i still am a little confused if i bought a kit like the one from bbm what else would if i bought a 16v head?

[herby53-akaherby53]

i got my old bottomend and mounted up the g bracket , then mounted my alt under the charger, i was using a 16v alt , after looking at it for about an hour , tere is no way this is gonna fit in the car , the subframe is right in thte way , i thought i may be able to skim by but no way . looks like on i am on the hunt for a rear mount , or a cult alt . still looking for a 16v adj cam gear to swap out the middle on a 8v gear . to many unknows right now , but i am happy to have my old bottomend back and only has 700 miles on it
je 9:1 pistons
total seal rings
polished and balanced rods ( 9a )
balanced and knifed crank ( RST crank)
arp rod bolts
all new bearings and thing when you do a rebuild
bildon oil windage tray
lightened and balanced intermedate shaft.
eurosport light weight 8v intere. gear
dist. in block

question , do i have to tap the oil pan for a return line on the oil ? where doe the ph block have the oil return ?

[jwatts]

Tap the oil pan, or the block. Usually a boss cast into the block is drilled and tapped for a fitting, but as long as it dumps above the oil level, everything should be rosy.

Here is an unfinished web page that will be posted on the SNS site from a locally built 16V G60 that was put together in December. The dyno plot is a stock 2L 16V head with stacked headgaskets and Autotech cams. I'll get around to finishing it, sometime this week. Pretty damned fun in a mk2 GTi .

http://www.snstuning.com/Digi1...h.htm

[herby53-akaherby53]

so should i tap the front of the pan or the rear , seieing that the oil will be pushed to the rear of the motor as the power hits ? i have a windage tray, or just do i tap it as close to the top of the pan as i can ? ( in the rear )

[jwatts]

Draining into the front of the pan would be more ideal than the rear. It would also keep your oil drain line relatively short.

My pan is tapped in the rear, but I have a hair dryer hung on the back of my motor.

[herby53-akaherby53]

Quote, originally posted by jwatts »

Draining into the front of the pan would be more ideal than the rear. It would also keep your oil drain line relatively short. My pan is tapped in the rear, but I have a hair dryer hung on the back of my motor.

LOL , TURBOOOO , DOES LOOK LIKE ONE

[OttawaG60]

Quote, originally posted by herby53-akaherby53 »

i got my old bottomend and mounted up the g bracket , then mounted my alt under the charger, i was using a 16v alt , after looking at it for about an hour , tere is no way this is gonna fit in the car , the subframe is right in thte way , i thought i may be able to skim by but no way . looks like on i am on the hunt for a rear mount , or a cult alt .

Like I said above, 16v alt will hit subframe.

Quote »

question , do i have to tap the oil pan for a return line on the oil ? where doe the ph block have the oil return ?

No, you can tap a hole in the block, just like the PG.

[OttawaG60]

It's been awhile since I wrote this, so I'll update it here.
http://www.kompressorkanada.ca/howto/16vG60.htm

Quote »

16vG60 Conversion READ FIRST - This is by no means a complete how-to on a 16v g60 conversion. This is just advice and guidance. We are not legally responsible for the information that is contained here. If through the process you come up with any further advice please forward it to us so that we can add it to this list. The best source of info on this conversion is the 16vg60 group on yahoo http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/16vG60/ I'm going on the assumption that you have a 16v (with alt, dist, exhaust manifold) and a G60 engine with charger, bracket, tubing and digifant) Parts needed 1) alt doesn't fit in stock location. You have to options here, under the G60 or on the back of the block. I chose to do it under the G60, I recommend doing in on the back of the block, it's a real pain in the arse to try and get in under the G60, there is no room. You will need 2 mounting pieces for the back of the head/rear motor mount. Here are the specs for one of them, the other just comes straight up from the rear motor mount.

I have since gone to a alt on the back of the block, couldn't get the tension right for the charger and the belt slipped.

Under G60, make sure you get a tiny alt, like one from a suzuki sidekick.
Back of block, there are plans for the mounting plate on the yahoo group. I think BBM also sells that part on it's own.

Quote »

2) With alt in different spot, serpentine belt needs changing. With alt under G60, you need an idler pulley between waterpump and alt to get grip on the waterpump (belt goes right across from crank) and you can use a 8v timing belt tensioner for tension, mounted where the old tensioner swing arm used to be. 3) Crank pulley - G60 timing gear is narrower than the 16v one and offsets the G60 crank pulley. Get an 2L 8v crank pulley and get it shaved 6mm.

You can now get them from places like BBM as well.
The Ford Escort one (EDIS) comes pretty damn close as well. It would have to be drilled out to fit, but it seems to line up (untested). And you could easily run MSnS.

Quote »

4) waterpump pulley - get one from a G60 Passat with no AC, fits there perfectly.

I ended up getting one from an ABA and flipping over, fit perfectly and is cheaper.
It has no grooves.

Quote »

5) Fuel rail and injectors. You'll need an aftermarket fuelrail *available from Kompressor Kanada*. Get some #30 Bosch redtops to fuel the car. You will also need G60 injector inserts to put into the intake manifold.

This engine can prove to be a little more thirsty, I'm currently running Bosch 42# green tops (Ford motorsport)

Quote »

6) Scirocco 16v intake manifold is a must.

You can get an Audi S2 intake, it comes very close to fitting, bolts up and just needs one runner cut off and a TB place welded on.
Scirocco one is easier IMO.

Quote »

7) Digifant - need to get custom chip, talk to Dave at KK, he does SNS chips here in Canada and they can cut you a 16vG60 chip with 30# injectors. You will also need to change the watertemp sensor, I have the part number somewhere. Make sure that you can mount the CO pot into the upper IC tube. Digifant MAP vacuum tube MUST be 1 metre exactly.

Engine management, if you don't have digi-1, MegaSquirt, SDS etc are viable options, especially if you plan to install cams etc.
You'll need an auto G60 TB.

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8) Intake elbow - custom part, I have a diagram for one, needed to clear distributor.

BBM offers these now IIRC.
Not needed with short tube intake

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9) recirc tube, needs to be shortened...although I recommend removing it altogether and capping the charger off.

I've since gone back to recircing, it can get a little noisy.

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10) coolant hoses - mix and match of G60 and 16v, upper rad hose needs to be lengthened. If going into Mk2, 16v set should work fine as motor came in that car. 11) Compression, 16v engines have way to much for forced induction. I used stacked gaskets, you can either use forged pistons or a KK provided ABA metal gasket.

A stack of 2 ABA metal gaskets is fine for this engine (long block 16v)

Quote »

12) Spark plugs, Bosch F5DSR or F5DP Plugs.

I ran bosch 6's with no problems.

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13) Crank case breather in is now in the block, not the head, so you'll need to route that.

I recommend venting the head as well and running a catch can.
Easiest method is probably to use the NB 2L breather oil cap.

Quote »

14) Block need to be drilled for G60 oil return line.

You could run it to the oil pan as well, but the G60 factory return line probably wouldn't fit.

[herby53-akaherby53]

it just looked so close to fitting

i looked on bbm site and didnt find the rear mount's on there alone . will take a look on the yahoo group to see the specs on making them . thanks - allen

[Corrado79]

Quote, originally posted by jwatts »

Here is an unfinished web page that will be posted on the SNS site from a locally built 16V G60 that was put together in December. The dyno plot is a stock 2L 16V head with stacked headgaskets and Autotech cams. I'll get around to finishing it, sometime this week. Pretty damned fun in a mk2 GTi . http://www.snstuning.com/Digi1...h.htm

So, does this mean that soon SNS will be selling a chip for a 16vG60?

[Corrado79]

Quote, originally posted by Corrado79 »

So, does this mean that soon SNS will be selling a chip for a 16vG60?

Please say YES!!

[jwatts]

A very nice chip, too. .

42# 3.5 bar fpr, 68mm pulley (poor charger)
stacked Headgasket 9A block with 2L 16V head
stock cams, or Autotech Cams

214whp sounds promising when it's scratching the surface of the 16VG60 potential

In the coming weeks, the car should receive a 50mm intake, so we'll see what it's worth on this setup at the dyno.

Hopefully, by this summer, the car might have a worked 1.8L 16V head to throw down some even better #s.

[Corrado79]

Quote, originally posted by jwatts »

A very nice chip, too. . 42# 3.5 bar fpr, 68mm pulley (poor charger) stacked Headgasket 9A block with 2L 16V head stock cams, or Autotech Cams 214whp sounds promising when it's scratching the surface of the 16VG60 potential In the coming weeks, the car should receive a 50mm intake, so we'll see what it's worth on this setup at the dyno. Hopefully, by this summer, the car might have a worked 1.8L 16V head to throw down some even better #s.

Well, as soon as you'd like, I'd like to be the first customer for that chip. I have a very similar setup, except I have a G60 1.9 block and the 50mm intake. I'm weeks away from competing it but I'm sans chip so I'm REALLY looking forward to your chip.

[OttawaG60]

214whp, cool, very close to DougG60's numbers.
Any dyno sheet?

[jwatts]

THis is the road tune. Had to add a bit of fuel at the very top since then, but nothing major.

Sorry 'bout the huge image.

[OttawaG60]

url?

[StaggerLee]

Quote, originally posted by jwatts »

In the coming weeks, the car should receive a 50mm intake, so we'll see what it's worth on this setup at the dyno.

My my, but we are an incestuous little bunch, aren't we.

Here's my dyno with an SNS 42# program on 13psi. (Lysholm)

[jwatts]

werd, you know where the intake is coming from .

How far along are you on the new project??