front quarter panel

[viscount]

anyone ever notice the corner of the front quarterpanel where it meets the driver/passenger door and windshield is spongy? I presume this has to do with the insulation of the car, but I've never seen this before and thought it a little odd...I can actually press the corner in and out a little! And it appears the driver's side is very slightly off of alignment! Is it true that these cars were built by hand at certain points in the manufacturing process? I then started poking around the thin strip of lights below the headlight and while its plastic, it too gives a little, but only because it seems its not well glued on!! And the same with the chrome around the rear bumper where it forms an apex at the end...hope this isn't too abnormal and I don't see pieces of this car falling off in the next year or two!
On another note, I must confess to the stupid award ...for the last 2 days the tire pressure light's been coming on and intermittantly saying flat tire...the first time it happened I stopped and pulled over and looked at the tires- the one it was saying was defective looked fine, so I assumed no big deal...I've been watching it, and since I have not had a chance yet to return to the dealer I've been driving around- maybe 60-70 miles since then. Meanwhile, since the tire looked fine, I would assume that if it were low then the car would not drive right either which has been my past experience, and so I was just assuming its a fault with the system as its new, etc...well tonight I checked and the tire only had 20 psi!! I'm very aware of the car, so I was really shocked as I did not notice any strange steering/braking behavior. I guess since that I'm not used to it yet, I must not have noticed...I was only on the highway twice over this time, so I don't think I could have damaged anything, could I? Its such a heavy car that I didn't notice! And now I hear a hissing noise and found a screw, so tomorrow its off to get fixed- thankfully i have a firestone 4blocks away, I don't think there's a reason to go to the dealers with this one unless there's something I'm unaware of with this car....i also on said highway tonight came within literally 1 inch of an accident @ 7o mph as some careless driver tried to turn into my lane!!
Thanks
Ed.

[PanEuropean]

Hello Ed:

I can tell you are having fun with your new toy! That's great, because that's why we buy these cars. Just wait another week, and you will be taking it apart like me.

I'll try to answer your questions one at a time.

Quote, originally posted by viscount »

Is it true that these cars were built by hand at certain points in the manufacturing process?

Yes, very true. In fact, the Phaeton is built by hand at EVERY step of the manufacturing process, with only two exceptions: First, when the well that holds the spare tire is fitted into the bodyshell, and second, when the fully 'stuffed' bodyshell is mated to the running gear. Every other assembly action is done by hand, by individual craftspeople who work, alone, on the car.

You mentioned that the quarterpanels are a bit spongy. This is by design, the quarterpanels are made of plastic. Give one a gentle push at the top of the front wheel arch and see what happens. I think this accounts for why you can also push and deform the rear bumper, and the front body panel around the headlights. These parts are also made of plastic.

Manufacturing tolerances for body gaps are tighter on the Phaeton than on any other production car in the world. In some cases, such as the gap between the inboard edge of the headlights and the grille, the allowable tolerance is only 1 mm.

Quote, originally posted by viscount »

...for the last 2 days the tire pressure light has been coming on and intermittently saying flat tire......tonight I checked and the tire only had 20 PSI !

Hey, good to hear that the system does what it is supposed to do, which is alert the driver when there is a problem with a tire.

I am pretty cautious with tire pressure monitoring, perhaps because I spend half of each year riding a motorcycle at very high speeds throughout Europe. The moto does not have a TPMS, so, I check pressures every morning, without fail. When I first picked up the Phaeton, any time the TPMS system gave me a warning, I would check the tire pressures the next morning (when the tires were stone cold) before resetting the system.

My experience has been this: For the first month of ownership of the new Phaeton, tire pressures did drop a little bit in some of the tires. I topped them up at the local pump (checking the pressure reading with my own gauge, not relying on the pump). After the first month of driving (about 500 miles), everything settled down, and the tire pressures have not changed at all, excepting when we have a very severe cold snap. When that happens, I usually just ignore the warning for the first day of the cold snap, and if it persists, then I check the pressures manually before I reset the system.

Snap-On Tools makes a very handy, easy to use tire pressure gauge. The one I have has a hose on the end of it, so I can fit the coupling over the valve stem, and hold the gauge face the way I want it, to make it easy to read. It also has a 'pressure reading hold' button on the side of it. This gauge cost me about USD $25 some years ago, and it is money well spent. FWIW, if you plan to buy a good quality tire gauge, buy a bulky good quality tire gauge - they are harder to lose than the very small ones that fit in your pocket. Photo below.

Michael

Snap-On Tools Tire Pressure Gauge

[PanEuropean]

Ed:

Here's a link to an old post from the beginning of December, where I posted details about the body gap tolerances for the Phaeton. Body Gap Tolerances on Phaetons

Michael

[trekguy]

Hi viscount

The foam you mentioned is just as you thought to be... sound-deadening material. Many cars have similiar stuffing in the same location, and on my Chrysler 300, it seemed to be just pushed in there and held by a few (very few) plastic fasteners.

[viscount]

Thanks for the most excellent posts and photos. Your assistance on this forum is wonderful- VW corporate hq should employ your skills. These links/photos are great. Its good to know about the tolerances- it makes sense. I finally got the screw out and tire fixed.
Ed.

[copernicus0001]

Michael,

Nice tire gauge... I had the same Snap-On gauge in my vehicle for many years until my wife came across it (about 6 years ago)... She liked it -- and it found a new home in her vehicles ever since...

I bought one a digital tire gauge in a nice aluminum case - but, after using it, I found I like the Snap-On gauge better... It is much easier to properly seat on the valve stem.

Douglas

(a substantial diversion from the current topic - but I thought I'd share this since it came to mind!)

[viscount]

Now a wife who knows how and wants to use a tire gauge! I don't think mine's ever touched one!!! We're still working on that driving bit!!
Ed.

[SeaTreg]

True, the cars are hand assembled in Dresden, but the bodies arrive pre built and painted, to the Dresden glass factory. So, I would guess that there is a lot of robotic assembly in the actual building of the bodies before they are shipped to Dresden for final assembly and fitment of interior/powertrain. Does anyone know about this for certain? I also remember reading that the factory which builds the Phaeton bodies, also builds the Bently Continental body, but I don't know if that is true or not. Seeing that they share a lot under the skin, it would not be surprising.

[PanEuropean]

Hello Bill:

You are correct, the Phaeton carosserie (body-shell) and the Bentley Continental GT carosserie are both constructed in the same location, which is at the very large VW plant in Mosel, just outside of Zwickau. This is about 100 km's (60 miles) to the south-west of Dresden.

The bodyshells are made in buildings 21 and 23, and then painted in building 20. From there, they are then transported to the final assembly plant, Dresden in the case of the Phaeton, and Crewe, England in the case of the Bentley.

VW is a world leader in highly automated building processes. I was not able to tour the fabrication center for the D class cars in Mosel (they offer tours of every part of that plant except the halls where the Phaetons and Bentleys are built - probably because owners are more interested in touring the actual assembly plants than the fabrication center), but I have been all the way through the VW fabrication center in Wolfsburg, and it is amazing how well things are automated there.

Note that there is a distinction made between an 'assembly plant', such as Dresden, and a 'fabrication plant', such as Mosel. In a fabrication plant, raw materials go in one end, and finished components come out the other end. In an 'assembly plant', components come in one end, and fully completed automobiles come out the other end.

Below is a plan view of the Mosel fabrication plant. It is interesting to note that VW now employs (directly or indirectly) about 37,500 people in what was formerly known as the DDR ('East Germany'). The Mosel plant employs slightly over 6,000 full time employees, and 98% of the employees in the Mosel fabrication plant have completed post-secondary education (e.g. college or university degree, apprenticeship to Master level, or similar).

Below the Mosel diagram is a (kind of cheesy) photograph of me that someone took when I visited the Dresden assembly plant in September of 2004. This photo was taken at the very beginning of the assembly line, so, the body-shell behind me and the body-shell being transported in the background will give you a good idea of what comes in the door at Dresden from the fabrication plant at Mosel.

The first thing that happens in Dresden, once the body-shell is placed on its moving transporter, is that all 4 doors are removed from the car and put aside into storage. The doors are not installed again until much later in the assembly process, perhaps when about 80% of the assembly has been completed. By removing and storing the doors, VW ensures that they are not accidentally scratched at any time during the 'stuffing' of the fuselage with the wiring harnesses, components, seating, and so forth.

Michael

Volkswagen Sachsen Assembly Plant - Mosel, Germany

What the finished body-shell looks like, just as it arrives in Dresden at the start of the Phaeton assembly process.

[viscount]

great description- we'd be in the dark ages without your knowledge! You look like an engineer admiring his handiwork...
Ed.

[PanEuropean]

It is worth mentioning that any Phaeton purchaser who would like to participate in the process of building his or her own Phaeton in Dresden is most welcome to do so.

The process works like this: You order a Phaeton - it does not have to be a special 'VW Individual' Phaeton, any Phaeton that is custom-built to your specifications is fine - and you have your VW dealer notify the team at the Glass Factory in Dresden that you would like to participate in the process of building your Phaeton. The folks from the Glass Factory will then contact you and advise you of the build date. You head over to Dresden (personally, I recommend the Hilton Dresden Hotel, it is right downtown but only a 15 minute walk from the Glass Factory), and after a brief orientation that will explain workplace safety, stuff like that, you will be buddied up with a guide (a customer service manager) who will accompany you through the build process. You can then assist with as much or as little of the assembly process as you would like. For obvious reasons, you can only assist with the assembly of your own car.

It is not necessary to speak German to participate, because the guides are multilingual.

Michael

PS: It is generally not allowed to decide to add in extra options or change the colour of your car while you are building it.

Modified by PanEuropean at 12:26 AM 2-8-2005

[LaFerrari]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

It is worth mentioning that any Phaeton purchaser who would like to participate in the process of building his or her own Phaeton in Dresden is most welcome to do so. The process works like this: You order a Phaeton - it does not have to be a special 'VW Individual' Phaeton, any Phaeton that is custom-built to your specifications is fine - and you have your VW dealer notify the team at the Glass Factory in Dresden that you would like to participate in the process of building your Phaeton. The folks from the Glass Factory will then contact you and advise you of the build date. You head over to Dresden (personally, I recommend the Hilton Dresden Hotel, it is right downtown but only a 15 minute walk from the Glass Factory), and after a brief orientation that will explain workplace safety, stuff like that, you will be buddied up with a guide (a customer service manager) who will accompany you through the build process. You can then assist with as much or as little of the assembly process as you would like. For obvious reasons, you can only assist with the assembly of your own car. It is not necessary to speak German to participate, because the guides are multilingual. Michael PS: It is generally not allowed to decide to add in extra options or change the colour of your car while you are building it. Modified by PanEuropean at 12:26 AM 2-8-2005

Wow...I never knew you could do that. That is very, very, very cool

[PanEuropean]

VW is remarkably innovative in every respect concerning the Phaeton. A lot of the innovations are not well publicized outside of Europe.

Michael

[PanEuropean]

Here is a much better photo for the purpose of giving an idea of what the working environment is like in the Dresden assembly plant. In this photo, the body-shells (note that they are without the doors) have been almost completely stuffed, and are being manipulated around to be mated with the undercarriage - the running gear - of the car.

This is one of only two processes in the Dresden plant that are heavily automated. It would be difficult for the individual craftspeople to lift the stuffed fuselage and put it on the running gear. The other automated process, installation of the spare tire well, is also automated due to the weight of the component involved. The spare tire well also comprises the bottom surface of the trunk, and has the vehicle air compressor installed in the bottom of it. For that reason, it is a pretty heavy and unwieldy sub-assembly.

There are some other interesting pictures of the Dresden assembly plant at this thread: NEWS FLASH: Glass Factory in Dresden invaded by Space Aliens...

Michael

Phaeton Assembly Plant (The Glass Factory) in Dresden, Germany
All that beautiful Maple wood used in the flooring came from Canada. It was selected because of its durability and its fire resistance.

[PanEuropean]

Just to follow up on Ed's original question, from his post at the very top of this thread, here is a better illustration showing what is plastic and what is aluminum on the Phaeton. Although you don't see it in this illustration, the wheel well liners are also plastic - both front and back.

Michael

Construction Materials - Phaeton Front Body

[PanEuropean]

Here are two photos that illustrate the process of fabricating a front fender for a Phaeton. In the first photo, the fender has been created, and is being removed from the mould. In the second photo, the fender is being fitted with additional materials.

This work is carried out at the Volkswagen fabrication facility in Braunschweig, which is located just a short distance south of the main office of Volkswagen in Wolfsburg. This fabrication plant has its own website, Business Unit Braunschweig. If the site appears in the German language, click the small UK flag in the lower right of the screen to switch to English.

Michael

Phaeton Fenders being manufactured

[viscount]

great photos, thanks. This is interesting. I am amazed that such a car has plastic quartepanels- but I guess they know what they're doing...makes me wonder about impact resistance vs steel or aluminium in a crash though
Ed.

[PanEuropean]

Here is the link for Phaeton Crash Test Photos. Looks pretty solid to me. I think it's a good idea to have plastic for the fenders and wheel well liners - saves on bumps and stuff like that, probably a lot quieter as well.

Michael

[rps]

Michael,
I noticed that this initial post was over 4 years ago. However, I discovered today, that either a valet driver, or an adjacent vehicle, damaged a small area above the wheel well---Perhaps a door opened, hitting the area on my Phaeton, and actually cutting a 1/2" area---I had no idea the fenders were plastic. Can this be repaired, or will the body shop simply replace the entire quarter panel?
THanks,
Richard

[chillson]

My wife scraped the rear passenger door and rear passenger quarter panel on our garage frame last night. Just curious about what the rear quarter panel is made of. Anyone? Thanks...Jay

[PanEuropean]

Photos re-hosted.

Michael