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    Thread: Navigation System - Split Screen Function

    1. Member chrisj428's Avatar
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      05-27-2005 11:14 AM #26
      Quote, originally posted by atlantaallen2 »
      I'm just wondering how it knew that I should have avoided that six mile stretch of interstate.

      Allen,
      You can designate just how much you want it to avoid. Once you've selected Alternate Route, use the rotary knob to select the amount of distance you wish to bypass, then select Update Route Guidance.
      --Chris

    2. 09-09-2005 01:34 AM #27
      Awesome tips here guys and gals! Very helpful.

    3. 09-28-2005 08:18 PM #28
      Michael -
      I have a 2004 W12 but for some reason my NAV system doesn't provide any detail maps (in fact, when I push the MAP button I get a Telephone screen and the notification that a phone is not currently attached, the irony of that is quite frustrating since I evidently can't attach one anyway despite having an antenae in the center console...) I have the correct CD in the system and get accurate route guidance at the street level, but my display only shows major roads and interstates, and I never get a driver display with the Nav. Am I missing something? I can get the split screen but again, no detail.

    4. Member copernicus0001's Avatar
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      09-29-2005 02:19 AM #29
      Quote, originally posted by dcowan699 »
      Thanks Michael but let me ask this question. If I wanted to go to 5667 Anywhere, California, would I put in the disc that pertains to California , program in the address and leave that disc for the California region in the machine even though I begin my trip in Alabama?? Let's assume I don't want POI or any detail along the way and all I need is step by step instructions on how to get there.

      I have used navigation to direct me from somewhere on disk A to somewhere on disk B (about 20 miles from the boundary of disk A). The system knew where I was until I was on small secondary roads (a residental area). I didn't need to switch disks... I have been very happy and impressed with the navigation system's primary functionality (navigating me to a destination).

    5. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      09-29-2005 07:05 AM #30
      Quote, originally posted by nscheetz »
      I have a 2004 W12 but for some reason my NAV system doesn't provide any detail maps (in fact, when I push the MAP button I get a Telephone screen and the notification that a phone is not currently attached, the irony of that is quite frustrating since I evidently can't attach one anyway despite having an antenae in the center console...) I have the correct CD in the system and get accurate route guidance at the street level, but my display only shows major roads and interstates, and I never get a driver display with the Nav. Am I missing something? I can get the split screen but again, no detail.

      Hi Ned:
      Welcome to the forum. I can only think of one possible cause of the problem that you report, and that is that the car is not properly configured (coded) in software to indicate that it has a navigation system installed.
      All Phaetons sold in North America come with navigation, however, nav is optional on Phaetons sold in some other markets, so for this reason, it is possible to code the car to indicate that it is configured with a telephone (which you do not have) but without navigation (which you do have).
      Here is how I suggest you approach the problem. Have a look at the picture below, which shows a European Phaeton Front Information Display and Control Head. Note the difference between the labels on the large buttons (the 8 buttons in a horizontal row) between the European car and your car (there SHOULD be a difference - if your car looks like this, then you have the wrong part number display installed!) Also note the difference evident in the buttons surrounding the volume control dial in the lower left. Now, see if the buttons in your car perform the same functions as the buttons in the photo. If so, then the car is not coded correctly.
      Have your dealer investigate the coding of the J523 Front Information Display and Control Head - this is controller number 07. All North American Phaetons are coded the same way - 0500305. The only possible exception is if there is no rear seat control panel for the air conditioning, something that is standard on a W12. My guess is that your car might be coded to indicate that it does have a telephone, but does not have navigation. It is possible that someone replaced the display unit, but did not correctly code the new display when they replaced it.
      The coding process is simple for the dealer to do, and should not take more than about half an hour. In fact, the diagnostic scan tool that the technician uses (the VAS 5052 scan tool) will provide step by step guidance to the technician to ensure that they enter the correct code. I have listed the different coding possibilities below (might look Greek to you, but the tech should understand it). You might also suggest that your technician compare the coding of your car (other controllers as well) with the coding of other W12 Phaetons that are shown on the list at this link: Controller Lists from Phaetons. This will help them comprehend coding of a unfamiliar vehicle. If all else fails - just ask them to replace the Front Information Display and Control Head with a new one. Directions for accomplishing that task are here: Replacement of the J523 Front Information Display and Control Head.
      Let us know how it works out.
      Michael
      European Phaeton Button layout

      J523 Front Information Display and Control Head coding;
      Phaeton (3D) - Front Information Display Control Head - CCH - (J523) Coding
      xxxxxx?
      The question mark indicates the position of the digit described below. The numbers are cumulative, so, navigation installed and CD installed results in a code of 5.
      +1 Navigation Installed (J401 module)
      +2 Voice Activation Installed (for cell phone only - not for OnStar)
      +4 CD Changer Installed (R41 module)
      xxxxx?x
      +1 TV Tuner Installed
      +2 Telephone Installed (cell phone - not OnStar)
      +4 Test Mode 1 selected
      xxxx?xx
      +1 Seat Memory Installed
      +2 Tire Pressure Monitoring System installed
      +4 Parking Heater (Webasto overnight heater) installed
      x?xxxxx
      +0 None of the three configurations below
      +1 Rear Air Conditioning Control Head installed (typical)
      +2 Rear Central Control Head Installed (very rare - this is a rear duplicate of the front control functions)
      +4 Byte Coding Valid (always added to the total)



      Modified by PanEuropean at 7:18 PM 1-24-2008
      Last edited by PanEuropean; 09-15-2012 at 09:30 PM.

    6. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-08-2005 11:40 AM #31
      Quote, originally posted by nscheetz »
      ...in fact, when I push the MAP button I get a Telephone screen...

      Some additional information for you: If an earlier production North American Phaeton - a car that has a MAP and a MANUAL button on the J523 - is given a flash update with the version 0223 software update CD, the buttons will be reassigned so that the MAP button activates the phone system (whether or not it is installed), and the MANUAL button displays an 'info' screen, showing the present location of your vehicle.
      There is no fix for this mistake, all that can be done is to replace the J523 Front Information Display and Control Head. When the old unit is sent back to VW in exchange, the overhaul facility will replace the button strip across the front with appropriately labeled buttons. The buttons cannot be replaced in the field, only at the overhaul facility.
      Michael
      DO NOT use this update CD...

      On J523 Displays that have these buttons on them!



      Modified by PanEuropean at 7:19 PM 1-24-2008
      Last edited by PanEuropean; 09-15-2012 at 09:31 PM.

    7. Member copernicus0001's Avatar
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      11-08-2005 05:12 PM #32
      Michael,
      The effects of using the update on an old J523 (infotainment) unit are:
      1. More reliable functioning of the J523 (infotainment) unit.
      2. Slightly different feature set:
      • Deleted: Manual button (for accessing the documentation on the European Navigation CD; it does nothing on NAR vehicles)
      • Added: Info (gives current position, city); Phone: for accessing the Phone feature (only works if you have the integrated phone system - you won't have this with an older J523).
      3. Incorrect button labels for a few buttons.

      It may be worth the trade-off (a few incorrect labels) for the gain in functionality and system stability.
      A more interesting observation from the your post is that it suggests the units may be able to be reconfigured (flashed) to support some of the functionality seen in some of the European Phaetons (TV button; turn off TPMS; support for AUX Video (back-up camera); etc.). Michael, is the update CD shown in your post targeted at the North American Region, ROW, or all markets?
      It also suggests that (maybe) one could replace the welcome "splash screen" with something customized to the individual - wouldn't that be nifty??

    8. 11-09-2005 02:24 AM #33
      Michael
      Thanks! Evidently the dealer has corrected my limited detail on my nav system issue while they've been working on the bigger transmission issue, and some other power related issues. Thanks for all your help and I trust everything will ultimately get worked out. I am curious though about the flash update and Copernicus' thought on if that would allow auxilarry video input, specifically for the Alipine Vehicle hub as a great iPod solution.
      Ned

    9. Member copernicus0001's Avatar
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      11-09-2005 04:23 AM #34
      Hi Ned,
      In my post above, I should have explicitly pointed out that although it may be technically within the realm of possibility, it is very unlikely we will see such mods take place. Such changes are risky, would take a very significant amount of engineering resources to to implement and test in order to establish a method, etc....
      Douglas

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      More than I need
      11-15-2005 09:48 AM #35
      I have the same problem as 'nscheety' (no detail other than major highways and no phone connected announcement on the screen). What effect would series one or series two NAV discs have on the problem? I am using the updated series 2 NAV discs. If the system was flashed (updated) by incorrectly using the wrong disc that you have shown, can a reflash using the correct CD be done? Not in a big hurry to take the car out of service to do a screen replacement.
      RB

    11. 11-15-2005 10:58 AM #36
      The 2004 Phaetons Infotainment (with manual button) systems were not set up for phones, you should not get a "Phone" announcement unless the extended wire harness is present, flash or no flash.
      As for NAV detail, what scale are you viewing your Nav screen at? And what preferences do you have selected?
      ~PC

    12. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-15-2005 02:19 PM #37
      PC:
      If you flash an 'old' J523 - meaning, one with the MANUAL button on it - with the 0223 software update, you will wind up re-assigning the buttons same as the newer NAR J523's, and you will get a telephone screen if you press the MAP button - wire harness or no wire harness.
      Don't ask me how I learned this...
      Michael

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      11-16-2005 09:37 AM #38
      Ran the full scale, min to max, still only major highways showed. Looks like my next stop will be the dealerships Phaeton tech. If all else fails I have my handheld (I sail) if I need to travel to unknown areas.
      RB

    14. Member chrisj428's Avatar
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      11-16-2005 09:41 AM #39
      This is going to sound like a stupid question, but is the correct CD-ROM in the player? All the CD-ROMs have "major highways" on them, but secondary roads are only mapped out on their respective discs.
      --Chris

    15. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-18-2005 07:16 PM #40
      Hi Ronald:
      Chris is 'dead-on' with his suggestion. If you can only see the major highways, then you do not have the correct CD for the area you are presently located in loaded in the nav player.
      By the way, this is fairly common behavior for all GPS receivers - a Garmin GPSR will do the same thing if you don't have the 'detail' maps for the region you are in loaded - it will just show you the main highways.
      Michael

    16. 11-18-2005 11:05 PM #41
      For the first time, I was a little let down by my nav system. I programmed it to take me to Destin, FL in the "quick" mode and also "with highway" and it wanted to take me way out of the way. In fact this option was going to take me far west to Pensacola before finally turning me towards the east. This was not only 1 hour further but almost 70 miles too far.
      I knew though how to get there even without the nav as I've gone there every year of my life and I also knew that if I detoured from the recommended directions it would recompute for me and begin a new route guidance. I forced it to re-route us as we got off of the interstate in south Alabama and indeed we discovered a path that seems better than my old way of getting there [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      So I guess my question is what is the difference in "quick" and "short" on the menu?
      I wish that "quick" would use both highway (which I guess actually means interstate) and state roads in any combination necessary to get me there as quick as possible. It seems to want to stick to interstates as far as possible when in "highway" mode even if it takes you 100 miles out of the way.
      I also noticed when in the "no highway" mode, it would constantly tell me to exit the freeway , get onto a paralleling state road, get back on the interstate, back to the side road (this pattern repeated several times) until I gave up and later made common sense judgements on my own. I guess in the "short" mode, it is tabulating to the nearest mile which path is the shortest even if getting off the interstate back and forth several times would save you 5 miles!!! On a 250 mile trip this is unreasonable.
      Really don't know what I was doing wrong. Is their a default position that I should consider next time?
      It only allows you to choose one of several options. 1) Highway versus non-highway, 2) quick versus short, and 3) toll roads versus non toll roads. This to me causes confusion. Sometimes a side road may in fact not only be the shortest route but also the quickest.

    17. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-19-2005 06:53 AM #42
      Hi David:
      The performance you encountered is typical of all navigation systems (OEM or aftermarket), and is based on the 'road characteristics' that are stored for each street or highway in the cartography provided by Navteq. It's not really a nav computer issue.
      I have attached two photos below that show your route as constructed by an aftermarket program (MapSource, from Garmin) using the most up to date Navteq cartography. The first route was calculated with the criteria set to 'fastest route', and allowing the use of multi-lane controlled access expressways (the precise definition of the word 'highways'). The second route was constructed with the criteria set to 'shortest route', with highways disallowed. My guess is that the results you see below are probably similar to the results you would have seen in your Phaeton.
      The 'avoid highways' option in auto navigation systems is intended to keep the driver off high speed, controlled access highways. This option is attractive to new (16 year old) drivers, or to people who drive very infrequently and are not comfortable with accelerating, merging, and so forth (your maiden aunt, who learned to drive before Eisenhower built the Interstate system) - in other words, folks who want to stick to a conventional 'city route', or, a highway route that uses an old-fashioned highway - two lanes, with a dotted line down the middle. The 'shortest' route option is rarely a useful choice for people who are driving their own car. It is, however, a necessary choice for people such as taxi and limo drivers who charge by the mile.
      When you encountered the odd behavior of the nav system telling you to get on and off the interstate, it was (as you guessed) the system giving first priority to the shortest route, and second priority to staying off controlled access highways. So, what it was doing was trying to keep you off the interstate, but only when this could be done without increasing the route mileage.
      For those of us who own our own vehicles, we should leave the system at the default settings, which are 'quick' and 'with highways'. When the system calculates a 'quick' route, it looks at the number of traffic lights on various roads, as well as the speed limits on the various roads, and calculates the fastest route in terms of total travel time, making allowance for a certain percentage of time that you will spend at red lights. This is why the 'quickest' route is often longer than you might think - but, if you try it out, it usually will be quicker, because you will encounter either fewer traffic lights, or higher speed limits.
      I test new GPSRs for Garmin - on motorcycles - and ride about 25,000 miles every year testing GPSRs. The algorithms used to optimize route calculations are very complex, and depend (for the most part) on the data on the CD, not the programming of the nav unit itself. When I made the trip from Canada to Alabama, I tested a new Garmin GPSR along the way, and compared the function of the Phaeton unit to this new, top of the line Garmin unit. When the routing criteria was set the same on both, the routes were also the same on both. The Garmin unit was faster, of course, but it was also 5 years newer in design.
      Michael
      Quickest Route - Highways Allowed

      Shortest Route - Avoid Highways
      3 hours more driving time to save about 15 miles of driving.

      A tale of two nav systems...
      The aftermarket unit shown is a Garmin 7200, with satellite traffic reception.
      It will go on sale in December 2005, for about USD $2,000, including the XM satellite antenna.



      Modified by PanEuropean at 7:40 PM 1-24-2008
      Last edited by PanEuropean; 09-15-2012 at 09:34 PM.

    18. 11-19-2005 09:02 AM #43
      Thanks Michael for the unbelieavable detailed reply. You amaze me.
      So quick and with highways is where I will program it. That is where I will most likely leave it. The first route you showed above is the exact route I took. Overall, I still am happy with the system as it didn't make any mistakes like telling me to turn into someones driveway by mistake!
      The number of signals, turns, and speed limit issues is probably why it wanted me to go so far southwest before finally turning eastward.

    19. Member chrisj428's Avatar
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      11-19-2005 10:41 AM #44
      Michael,
      The "shorter" route seems to 26 km longer???
      --Chris

    20. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-19-2005 12:47 PM #45
      Yes, you are right - sharp eyes you have, you youngster! I guess the software is struggling to keep it short, but keep the person off highways. That's a good example of how two different criteria can (unintentionally) conflict with each other.
      Michael

    21. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      01-29-2006 10:48 PM #46

    22. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      09-15-2012 09:34 PM #47
      Photos re-hosted.

      Michael

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