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    1. Member DHill's Avatar
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      07-05-2005 10:41 AM #26
      Quote, originally posted by Samzik »
      q: Ok one question i didnt notice here is : can one put torsen diferential to 02M gearboks replacing front dif making it limited slip. Then use all the haldeks godies/parts to get the rear work. Then on rear, use audis lockable dif ? That would be ultimate funcar to drive in winter and slipy conditions! Cos fronts are driven by torsen and they always try to grasp the road, center is controlled by haldeks meaning 100%front/0% back to 50/50 max. And if needed the back dif can be locked for driving in ice or running 1/4 mile.
      I am told the torsen dif is to big and wount fit in haldeks gearboks is this true?

      [*******]PLEASE POST NEW QUESTIONS AS A THREAD IN THE SYNCRO/4MOTION/QUATTRO FORUM... IT KEEPS THE CLUTTER AWAY!![/size]

      Quaife makes an 02M limited slip. Bildon carries it, and a search on Google for "02M Quaife" will return a few hits.
      http://www.bildon.com/catalog/...Nav=5
      http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/10-309-195
      Peloquin makes one for the 02M as well.
      http://www.tyrolsport.com/vwperformance.htm
      http://shop.fixxtuning.com/s.n...42/.f
      Both of the above-mentioned LSDs are for the front in 4Motion 02M car like the R32.
      Google really is your friend.

      http://technikmotorsport.com/e...c8859
      http://www.evwparts.com/Mercha...pDiff




      Modified by DHill at 10:43 AM 7-5-2005

    2. Member DHill's Avatar
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      08-05-2005 01:32 PM #27

    3. Moderator yellowslc's Avatar
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      09-20-2005 11:43 AM #28
      Haldex Pinouts:
      T8 - Socket between car and control unit
      T8/1, Red = Ign.
      T8/2, Black = Gnd.
      T8/3, White = BLS (brake light switch)
      T8/4, Blue = HBLS (hand brake light switch)
      T8/5, Brown = K-line (diagnostics)
      T8/7, Blue/Grey = CAN low
      T8/8, Blue/Orange = CAN high
      T2 - Socket between control unit and feeder pump(pwm switched voltage)
      T2/1, Yellow = Pump 1
      T2/2, Yellow/Black = Pump 2

    4. Member DHill's Avatar
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      09-22-2005 03:49 AM #29
      Q: But I really really really really want Torsen. Can't I just swap in a Quattro drivetrain so I can do silly burnouts like the Dahlback Golf all day long? Can't I?
      A: Yes.... but be prepared to get to work. For a long time.
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1170697

    5. 09-30-2005 10:02 AM #30
      Q: does anyone have the diff ratios of the audis and the syncros and also gear ratios?

    6. Member Sepp's Avatar
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      10-12-2005 06:53 PM #31
      Quote, originally posted by efritsch »
      What version is an 87 4000?

      Original quattro
      If you have a 5 cylinder, you don't need a stereo.

    7. Member Sepp's Avatar
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      10-12-2005 07:07 PM #32
      Quote, originally posted by Yellow_bunny »
      Q: does anyone have the diff ratios of the audis and the syncros and also gear ratios?

      Wow.
      Which Audi's?? (they made alot of them)
      On the ur quattro it was the following.
      pre-'84
      1st 3.6:1
      2nd 2.125:1
      3rd 1.360:1
      4th 0.967:1
      5th 0.778:1
      Some criticism was brought up on how far apart the gears were (if you drove the car you'd know)
      So in '84 they changed them to
      1st 3.6:1
      2nd 2.125:1
      3rd 1.458:1
      4th 1.071:1
      5th 0.778:1
      Diff ratios would be 1:1..right????
      If you have a 5 cylinder, you don't need a stereo.

    8. 11-15-2005 03:09 PM #33
      ok do u know the ratios of the syncro trannys?
      i took apart a torsion rear diff from an early 90's audi v8 and the diff ratio is 4.11:1
      does anyone have the ratio of the syncro rear diff?

    9. Member 1.8TsyncroB3's Avatar
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      11-16-2005 09:21 AM #34
      All 4 cyl Golf/Jetta/Passat syncros have a 20/21 & a 21/20 tooth count on the angle drive and the rear diff. This effectively gives a 1:1 ratio through the system since one gearset cancels out the other. The rear diff on it's own gives a reduction of 1.05:1
      On VR6 syncros, the tooth count is 21/16 for the angle drive & 16/21 for the rear diff, which is a 1.31:1 ratio.
      Haldex systems are 27/17 & 17/27, giving a 1.59:1 ratrio per set.

    10. 11-16-2005 09:37 PM #35
      Quote, originally posted by 1.8TsyncroB3 »
      All 4 cyl Golf/Jetta/Passat syncros have a 20/21 & a 21/20 .....


      Just a little note, the early B5 Passat's AWD were called SYNCRO in Europe
      But true all the A2/A3 style (like the B3/B4's are) syncro's are share the two mentioned versions.

    11. Member
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      12-05-2005 12:40 PM #36
      Quote, originally posted by DHill »
      Diagrams from Les. I will eventually host these on my own server for backup, but these are informative for the person who is looking for these things.


      There's an error in this diagram- There is no "center" diff in a Vanagon syncro system. The front prop shaft is driven directly off the front of the main shaft. All "center diff" chores are handled by the VC.

    12. Member 1.8TsyncroB3's Avatar
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      12-06-2005 12:09 PM #37
      Drawing has been updated ! Thanks for reminding me of my long known error!

    13. Member DHill's Avatar
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      12-07-2005 03:26 PM #38
      Step by step description of the function of a Torsen differential
      Things to know before we start
      1. Do a Google Images search for "Torsen". It is very educational.
      2. Realize that there are two sides to the Torsen. The helical gear in the middel is actually two helical gears - one for each output shaft. The "pairs" of Invex (or "worm") gears aren't really pairs. There are three to one side and three to the other. Look at it as a two-sided unit.
      Like this!

      3. The ring gear is attached to the housing and is not generally considered to be part of the differential. Sometimes the differential housing is spun via a chain, or in this case, a bevel gear meshing with a ring gear. The ring gear bolts on to the outer ring.
      Now, let's begin:

      Mesmerize yourself by staring at this diagram:

      Ignore the arrows for the moment.
      1) Rotate the shaft on the left counter-clockwise (CCW) - I like to pretend I'm turning it with my left hand.
      2) The helical gear (splined directly to that shaft - just inside the housing) will now be rotating CCW.
      3) The top Invex gear (or worm gear) is now rotating CCW about its journal pin (the pin through its axis).
      4) Since that Invex gear is rotating CCW, the one right next to it is rotating clockwise (CW).
      5) Since that Invex gear is rotating CW, so is the helical gear (on the other side) to which it is meshed. Thus, the other shaft is rotating CW.
      Ta da! CCW on the left = CW on the right.
      To take it one step further, see what happens when you rotate the housing and watch the gears inside. Pretend you are a little man sitting on the housing, rotating with it. As long as there is no applied torque to either shaft, both shafts and housing rotate in the same direction at the same speed. From your perspective as the little man, nothing is happening inside. All gears are stationary.
      Now if one of the output shafts spins faster than the other (such as in wheel slip or turning) from your perspective as a little man on the housing, things will start to happen. You will see one shaft rotating CW and the other rotating CCW, with all the Invex gears rotating as described above. It actually isn't much different than an open differential, except the Torsen has a much greater sum of frictional forces between gears than an open diff, thus "limiting slip" between axles.
      Other Torsen pics:
      Careful... this pic is HUGE!
      http://climeg.poliba.it/~mecap...1.jpg
      See how it sits inside the transmission?

      A T1 Torsen diff as it comes from the factory. Note: No ring gear is attached! That's for you to do!

      Sometimes the input shaft to the housing is hollow, sleeved over one of the output shafts. Makes the longitudinal transmission as compact as it can possibly be.

      Not many moving parts, really.


      Autozine is the best:

      Here is what it would look like if it were chain-driven with a sprocket:

      I thought this was hilarious. A LEGO interpretation of a Torsen diff.


      Now, if you wanted to see a very literal interpretation of a limited slip differential, here it is. It's an open diff with essentially a viscous coupling on either output shaft. This is supposedly a differential made by Kaaz and it is used in Nissan vehicles, I think.





      Modified by DHill at 3:11 PM 12-9-2005

    14. 12-07-2005 04:16 PM #39
      Quote, originally posted by DHill »
      I thought this was hilarious. A LEGO interpretation of a Torsen diff.




    15. Member DHill's Avatar
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      12-09-2005 03:09 PM #40
      The questions, misconceptions, and answers I found about AWD

      Audi Torsen transmission designs:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2336254
      Finding out what's in the new Mazdaspeed 6
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2175261
      Wondering what the Touareg drivetrain looks like:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2020857
      Available transmissions for Audi:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2060883
      When I first started looking at a way to beef up the Syncro:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1812800
      Learning about the best places for new automotive technical info:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1935311
      Questions about bolting an 02C to a VR6
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1843317
      A not so useful thread about putting that power to all 4 wheels:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1558961
      Cryo treating gears?
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1586268
      My early questions about Syncro:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1434256

    16. Member
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      12-11-2005 11:52 AM #41
      I am almost positive my son has the pieces needed to build this! Now if I could just find them all...
      Quote, originally posted by www.Euro-Cullen.com »

      Has anyone seen the Lego 8880 kit? It's 4-wheel steering, 4-wheel ind. suspension, and AWD with 3 diffs!
      http://cgi.ebay.com/Lego-Techn...wItem
      You can view the instructions here:
      http://www.hccamsterdam.nl/brickfactory/index.htm

    17. Member swingwing205's Avatar
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      12-12-2005 09:57 AM #42
      Quote, originally posted by vanaguy »
      I am almost positive my son has the pieces needed to build this! Now if I could just find them all...
      Has anyone seen the Lego 8880 kit? It's 4-wheel steering, 4-wheel ind. suspension, and AWD with 3 diffs!
      http://cgi.ebay.com/Lego-Techn...wItem
      You can view the instructions here:
      http://www.hccamsterdam.nl/brickfactory/index.htm

      Hey, it's like "Rallye racing 101", for kids!
      I need this Lego kit!

    18. Member
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      12-12-2005 12:07 PM #43
      Quote, originally posted by swingwing205 »
      Hey, it's like "Rallye racing 101", for kids!
      I need this Lego kit!

      For kids? What would they do with it?
      And I saw it first!

    19. Member DHill's Avatar
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      04-21-2006 04:28 PM #44
      I just got some more info on the VR6 Syncro bellhousing for anyone that cares:
      Seems like RPI can get ahold of these -
      http://www.rpiequipped.com
      mike@rpiequipped.com
      warren@rpiequipped.com
      I have tried to order this same part from RPI before but it fell through. I think they work directly with VW of Germany now, so they purchase it from VW's new old stock.
      RPI charged me $760 Canadian (~$670 USD) plus shipping. Considering how rare these are, prices vary wildly depending on if the seller knows what he's got. I've seen as low as $375 (used, before shipping) and as high as $920 (new, shipped). Part number is O2C 301 107 C.
      Meanwhile...
      I found Haris' (94Volkswagen) thread when he converted his Corrado to Syncro before his insane R32 swap.
      Syncro: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1173916
      Haldex: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2160306
      I didn't know this, but Haris already had an idea that I just came up with. He tried to merge an 02A VR6 FWD bellhousing with an 02C G60 Syncro bellhousing to make a homemade VR6 02C Syncro bellhousing. Sucky thing is the welding warped the metal, and it didn't work out. But - that's one way to do it!
      Here's where he chopped it:

      And here's how he put them together (before welding):

      Haris - thanks for letting me use your work as a reference.

    20. Member yellorado's Avatar
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      11-23-2006 11:55 AM #45
      great relatively low budget suspention for syncro b3's (write up)

      hi all, well heres my story, i bought my syncro a few months ago and pretty much started looking for a lowering/stiffer setup for it without breaking the bank...
      right from the beginning i had the option to use a set of ground control sleeves i had laying around the garage...
      after much reading and researching i have gathered and tryed out this set-up for only about 500 cdn dollars... (425us range, guess)
      front: find a pair of used bilstein (or konis or other hight quality shocks) for golf/jetta 2 or 3, these are very easy to get here on vortex and can be had for approx 150$.
      i bought the complete stuts and grinded of the spring plates and the sleeves drop pressfit on the weld "ring" left there, fits perfect and tight.
      rear: here is where more research was done, i had heard of people using rabbit rear shocks because the factory application is rare/expensive/hard to get.
      again i search the vortex and found a pair of rear bilstein to use in the back, since the rabbit bilstein has a wider body than the 2/3 ones, again the sleeves drop on the adjusting ring with just a bit of slack (i shimed with a couple rubber o rings to stabilize it)
      the shock fits perfect, has the right lenght and bolts right in.
      notes: if going like me with sleeves, you can get any rate spings for around 40 bucks a piece, i used 300psi front and 250psi rear, it was the recommanded rates for a vr6 station by dick shine on an old post in the faq's
      it works great for me, not too hard, very controlled and absolutelly streetable...
      if using stock style springs, in the front, you should probably use any good aftermarket golf/jetta 3 or b3/b4 vr6 springs considering the g-60 is much heavier than a 16v engine... (you might have to "adjust" the lenght of the springs, use your imagination)
      in the back, you might need to adapt the rear spring plate from the factory shock to fit the spring... i am not sure what aftermarket spring would work in the back, something strong from a b3/b4 wagon specific application (some aftermarket springs dont deferentiate sedan from wagon )might work. (again you might have to cut, er, "adjust" the spring lenght )
      another thing to consider is: you could possibly mix and match front coilovers bought used for 2/3 and complete with rear rabbit coilovers from someone that owns a rabbit pick-up and split the cost...(spring rateswould need to be verified).
      vwvortex and ebay here are your friends...
      to complete this write-up, i did this whole research because, after all my syncro is my "winter car" and i couldn't justify the 1000 bucks + for the 2 or 3 options available on here. handling is unbelievable, cargo capacity still great (had 3 people in the back with no issues) and its nice and low and i can adjust the height from bus like stock to dragging the pan low
      hope this helps

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      05-01-2007 04:23 PM #46
      Quote, originally posted by DHill »
      Q: But I really really really really want Torsen. Can't I just swap in a Quattro drivetrain so I can do silly burnouts like the Dahlback Golf all day long? Can't I?
      A: Yes.... but be prepared to get to work. For a long time.
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1170697

      this thread is kind of pointless. i read some of it in hopes of some ideas but he never finished and there is no other information.

    22. Member DHill's Avatar
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      05-21-2007 11:15 AM #47
      Little "oil pan" housing on the side of the Haldex unit part numbers:
      Looks like there is an additional "A" on the R32 parts, don't know if that is because of a differentiation between metal and plastic.
      The R32 part is $57.01 (special order) and the gasket is $5.97. For the TT, the cover is $39.43.
      R32: 02D 525 083A ($57.01)
      TT: 02D 525 083 ($39.43)
      Gasket: 02D 525 089 ($5.97)

    23. 08-07-2007 04:45 PM #48
      Syncro swap into a corrado with pics
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1755494

    24. Member DHill's Avatar
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      11-08-2007 10:25 PM #49
      Q: What bearings do I get for my Syncro rear control arms?

      Ask Les! --> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3505869
      Thanks Les!

    25. Member 04RSR32's Avatar
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      02-12-2008 10:42 AM #50
      Are Syncro parts required to do a Haldex Conversion on a MK III? Sorry if this has been asked already.

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