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    Thread: Which spark plug is best for the 1.8t? - Poll

    1. 07-09-2003 10:10 PM #36

    2. Member boraIV's Avatar
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      07-14-2003 04:54 PM #37
      so for those of you running ngk bkr7e-11, what do you have them gapped at?

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      07-14-2003 06:11 PM #38
      Besides the personal prefernce, which spark-plugs should I use (GIAC X-chipped car) with my car? Since it's chipped, ya know...

      I'm also located in hot climate


    4. 07-14-2003 08:48 PM #39
      I guess chipping has to be included in this, and if more than chipping is used.

      If its stock just keep using stock plugs, but what happens when you add a little more boost than VW was contemplating? will a one range cooler plug be better always? on what ocassions will it be better or worst? at what boost levels should you go 2 range colder etc....

      This is a complicated topic as all of these have to be adressed, maybe not necessarilly going into brands, but saying what materials and what heat ranges and then each can go out and buy whatever brand fulfills this.


    5. 07-15-2003 02:36 PM #40
      Bump as I've been wondering the exact same thing. Going to do plugs soon I'm thinking as I'm at 17,000 miles, and contemplating the Denso Iridiums. Did some homework on http://www.sparkplugs.com so I'm not totally dumb but I don't know if I should go w/20's or 22's a range colder. I am chipped and plan on TB exhaust in the future, maybe an intercooler, etc etc (where does it really end ). But alas I cant' do a phatty turbo setup.

      So with a KO3 sport/Revo 4bar chipped blah blah blah should I go a range colder??
      THANKS


      Quote, originally posted by Giancarlo »
      I guess chipping has to be included in this, and if more than chipping is used.

      If its stock just keep using stock plugs, but what happens when you add a little more boost than VW was contemplating? will a one range cooler plug be better always? on what ocassions will it be better or worst? at what boost levels should you go 2 range colder etc....

      This is a complicated topic as all of these have to be adressed, maybe not necessarilly going into brands, but saying what materials and what heat ranges and then each can go out and buy whatever brand fulfills this.


    6. Member boraIV's Avatar
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      07-15-2003 02:53 PM #41
      ok, but what should they be gapped at? heheh please, i want to do this today

    7. 07-15-2003 03:17 PM #42
      From the 1.8T Plug FAQ:
      *avoid BKR7E-11 as the factory gap is too large, .042*

      >> That is when they are gapped correctly (.028) the angle is to steep for a good burn. You want the BKR7E, not the BKR7E-11.

      Anyway, the gap for a one range colder plug is .028

      ======================================
      >FROM THE FAQ<
      Stock spark plugs NGK PFR6Q stock gap .032"

      --Common replacements
      Autolite 3923
      Autolite 3922 (one heat range colder)
      Denso Iridium IK20
      Denso Iridium IK22 (one heat range colder)
      Bosch F7LTCR
      NGK BKR7E (Race plug, one range colder)
      *avoid BKR7E-11 as the factory gap is too large, .042*

      For every additional 50HP over stock, a general rule is:
      --1 heat range colder
      --gap shrinks by .004
      So, a chipped 1.8T would make good use ofa plug one range colder gapped to .028

      Reference: From NGK's FAQ: Spark Plug Gap

      "Another consideration that should be taken into account is the extent of any modifications that you may have made to the engine. As an example, when you raise compression or add forced induction (a turbo system, nitrous or supercharger kit) you must reduce the gap (about .004" for every 50 hp you add). However, when you add a high power ignition system (such as those offered by MSD, Crane, Nology) you can open the gap from .002-.005"."

      >END FAQ<


    8. Member boraIV's Avatar
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      07-15-2003 03:24 PM #43
      Well damn, I couldn't find a place that sold BKR7E i could only find the -11 part. I guess i'll be getting some autolites. Thanks for the info, i guess i neglected the FAQ.

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      07-15-2003 08:54 PM #44
      What about sparkplugs.com? http://www.sparkplugs.com/resu...BKR7E

      -Ian


    10. 07-16-2003 07:40 PM #45
      Quote, originally posted by swett »
      What about sparkplugs.com? http://www.sparkplugs.com/resu...BKR7E

      -Ian

      Yup, I ordered two sets from them last week.


    11. 07-17-2003 01:31 PM #46
      None of you guys change your plugs seasonally?

      I've probably tried all the plugs one can get at Autozone. Made a database so I can compare ignition advance (VAG-COM) to weather conditions.

      The plug that works best for me is one of the plain Bosch platinums.


    12. 07-29-2003 12:29 PM #47
      How often should a chipped 1.8T have it's plugs changed?

    13. 07-29-2003 03:36 PM #48
      Quote, originally posted by TUR-80 »
      If I had $1 for everytime I saw someone post "platinum spark plugs are bad for your car", I'd be rich by now.

      IF PLATINUM PLUGS ARE SO BAD, WHY DO VW AND AUDI FIT THEM AS STANDARD TO OUR CARS?

      Give it a break...

      The main advantage invoked by the manufacturing and the use of Platinum Tipped Spark plugs over the "Conventional" Copper Plugs (and I don't mean that in a bad way) is that it cuts down on environmental waste, and to a certain point, New Car Warranties.

      Platinum tipped plugs typically have a much longer serviceable life span than conventional copper plugs

      Pro and Cons.... Manufacturers warranty and the "All Service" included for "X" Number of years is good for the Manufacturers, since it costs them less in that they are "longer lasting".

      Cons... They typically don't offer the same performance as a conventional copper plug (mind you, 99% of you won't be able to FEEL or Quantifiably Evaluate the difference between OEM platinum vs Copper Plug). As well, Backyard mechanics and enthusiasts get Raked for the cost of Platinum Tipped Plugs vs Conventional Copper Plugs, in that they typically don't cost 4-5x the price to make.

      Save you time and money, go OEM in 95% of the cases. If you at Stage 3, then perhaps it's worth going the route of Copper or "Alternate" type plugs.


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      07-29-2003 04:10 PM #49
      For me, not having to worry about changing plugs every 10K (and associated risks to damaging the head, interlocking threads, damaging the coil, etc.) outweigh the negligible performance difference between platinum and copper. I agree, stick with stock unless you've done some serious modifications.

    15. 07-29-2003 04:34 PM #50
      I have read this thread and I still don't know what is one temp range COLDER than the stock NGK PFR6Q?

    16. 07-29-2003 04:47 PM #51
      If you go straight by the book, it would be a PFR7Q. You'd have to verify that's a valid part number though. NGK doesn't always follow their own rules when it comes to assigning part numbers.

    17. 07-29-2003 04:50 PM #52
      Quote, originally posted by Miki Kanazawa »
      If you go straight by the book, it would be a PFR7Q. You'd have to verify that's a valid part number though. NGK doesn't always follow their own rules when it comes to assigning part numbers.

      Ok. Will check into it. Now the next question is, should I run the colder plug since I am chipped and live in AZ.


    18. 07-29-2003 06:01 PM #53
      Seems like the NGK Laser Platinum that is one range colder than stock is the PFR7B. That is what APR gives with the Stage III. ECStuning also sells this for the 1.8T, advertised as one range colder than stock.

    19. 07-29-2003 06:04 PM #54
      Where could i get those bosch spark plugs that everyone voted for??

    20. 07-29-2003 06:14 PM #55
      Quote, originally posted by bigbwoy »
      Seems like the NGK Laser Platinum that is one range colder than stock is the PFR7B. That is what APR gives with the Stage III. ECStuning also sells this for the 1.8T, advertised as one range colder than stock.

      You're probably right since PFR7Q doesn't exist in sparkplugs.com database.


    21. 07-30-2003 04:02 PM #56
      Yes, they are the PFR7B as someone pointed out.

      http://www.sparkplugs.com has them for 11 bux each, much cheaper than the 55 from ECS.

      These are my next purchase!


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      07-30-2003 04:49 PM #57

      Quote, originally posted by HNDAETR »

      My car came off the truck (feb. 2001) with 14 miles on it and it came with NGK laser plat. plugs PFR6Q, only instead of the PFR6Q # they had an audi vw logo on them, if your car comes with a $1.29 "factory" plug then you are a lucky son of a b!tch, unfortunately my car came with plugs that run around $12 ea. at the local parts store. I guess what I'm trying to say is; I dont think the factory plugs for all 1.8t's are autolites. If you think platinum plugs damage your head when you are putting them in and taking them out then stop trying to put them in your d!ck, and put them into your car. All plugs of all materials will cause damage to your heads due to removal and re-installation, so follow these simple rules: 1. coat the threads with antisieze compound. 2. torque to factory specs.

      OKAY What did this accomplish? Like I mentioned before, spark plugs are basically all the same. You are not going to notice any power gain, or for that matter loss, with less or more expensive plugs. If you read through my note you will see that I say to keep/ or buy the stock plugs. If they cost $12 a piece then great!!! Spend the $48 and shut the hell up, and stop fu$&ing whining...


    23. 07-30-2003 06:49 PM #58
      Stock.

    24. 07-30-2003 08:45 PM #59
      Poor jim wilson that is the second time I have had to see him post that and I am sure its not the last.

    25. 04-08-2004 11:39 AM #60
      After almost a year, what is the general feeling on this topic now? A friend of mine is running Bosch triple platinum (not sure the model) on his 2000 1.8t with an Upsolute chip, aftermarket DV and cone filter air intake.

      To put it bluntly, his car is running like sh*t. He thinks one of the O2's are bad, he's on his 3rd MAF. At idle it's rough, once at FT it seams to run fine and if he runs the car real hard, the "check engine" light will go off. Only to pop back on once it idles for a minute or two.

      So, after spending the last 4 hours searching for every post with the word "spark plug" I see that everybody has different feelings on this.

      He thinks his car is running rich, I'm trying to tell him that if on O2 is dead, he's running lean. He wants to pull his plugs to see how they look. I figure, why not pop in a set of the real cheap coppers listed here, at 028 gap and see what happens.

      I'll let you know tonight.


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      04-08-2004 12:06 PM #61
      He "Thinks" he's running "Rich" and you "Think" he's running "Lean"?
      My advise is: Don't "THINK"... Find-out for sure using a wideband Dyno!
      Word to the wise: This is not something you wanna "Think"(guess/hope) you are right about!
      (Unless your friend can afford a new engine!)


      Modified by exS4 at 5:07 PM 4-8-2004

    27. 04-08-2004 12:15 PM #62
      I agree 100% on the guessing part. I have not seen his car for a while, has less than zero money to do any real diagnostic testing. I'm at the point to pay for it so he doesn't damage the damn car. He asked if he could come over, use my tools to pull the plugs to see what they look like. I agreed so I could find out what he's talking about and see what else he's bolted on. I'm also tempted to let him borrow my A/F guage that is supposed to be in my SC'd 928 that is currently in storage.

      The "symptoms" he told me usually point to a lean car. Not to mention, last time I checked that if a O2 sensor is bad or not working, the computer will default to a lean mode to avoid dumping fuel in to the air. A standard "feature" of OBD II. I could be wrong here, if so, I'm sure someone will tell me.

      Reason why I think the O2 is bad: he had a dealer run the codes about 6 months ago, one was bad then. I don't think he's changed them yet. He doesn't want to spend the $$ to make it run right, he wants to spend money to make it faster. He fails to realize you have to do one before the other, not in the order he's doing it.


      Modified by Road America at 5:17 PM 4-8-2004


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      04-08-2004 03:55 PM #63
      Quote, originally posted by chris86vw »

      As pointed out platinum works for long plug life, but not best performance. VW needs the long plug life to sell people cars now since you can buy a malibu that will go for 100K miles before a "tune up". Yes in general the factory does know more then the average vortex member, however there goal is not performance, while 99% of the people here alooking for plugs, it is.

      thanks for clearing that up for alot of people on here

      Anthony

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      04-08-2004 06:13 PM #64
      I can't believe someone opened this can of worms.

      I run what come with my Stage III kit: NGK PFR7B.


    30. 04-08-2004 07:51 PM #65
      Quote, originally posted by bigbwoy »
      Seems like the NGK Laser Platinum that is one range colder than stock is the PFR7B. That is what APR gives with the Stage III. ECStuning also sells this for the 1.8T, advertised as one range colder than stock.

      Thats right. It comes with the APR kit.
      PFR7B originally came stock inside the good old Audi S2 Sport Quattro between 1984 -87' (Stock 306 BHP !). It is 1 heat range colder than the stock PFR6Q that comes inside our motors.
      According to NGK, the letter "Q" in the end of the part# indicates "special application", so I can only guess that this directly relates to V.A.G having signed an OEM agreement with NGK (NTK) on these plugs for our range of engines and defined it this way.
      To learn more from NGK, go to: http://www.ngk.de/en/


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      04-08-2004 08:33 PM #66
      The ceramic piece on the plug removes the heat from the combustion chamber......not the platinum or copper piece.
      Copper plugs are better for higher temps; but they don't last as long.
      Because they don't last long; the factory won't use them. This is why Audi and VW use them. Not becasue they are any better.
      This is a fact. Known throughout the industry.

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      04-08-2004 10:51 PM #67
      Quote, originally posted by Road America »

      The "symptoms" he told me usually point to a lean car. Not to mention, last time I checked that if a O2 sensor is bad or not working, the computer will default to a lean mode to avoid dumping fuel in to the air. A standard "feature" of OBD II. I could be wrong here, if so, I'm sure someone will tell me.

      I thought the computer defaults to a rich mode to avoid damaging the engine.

      Sometimes a majority only means that all the fools are on the same side.

    33. 04-09-2004 07:24 PM #68
      NGK BKR7E

      First thing I did when I got the car.

      Sure the stock plugs may be fine for stock boost level under normal driving.

      Beat on the car on the hotter days and see how long before you notice nice aluminum sparkles on the plugs.

      Think about this, guys run high boost on stock plugs and there are guys who run nitrous on stock fuel setup, etc.. etc.. Just because it's done, doesn't mean it's done RIGHT. Only a matter of time.... booommm ... It's like the guy that tells you he runs 20psi on 87 octane gas. Kabooommmm...

      Ever see what happens to Platinum plugs in a 500+ RWHP boosted V8? LOLs Actually, I should say... ever see what happens to pistons???

      Doesn't quite matter, the point here is to get rid of completely or minimize pre-ignition... copper and the correct heat range will make your pistons happy. (Obviously, enough fuel also.. )


    34. 04-10-2004 09:07 AM #69
      I think the BKR7E are overkill on a chipped car with the stock turbo. I went with the BKR6Es and am very happy. My understanding is that the 6E's will actually act as if the are about 1/2 a heat range cooler than stock anyway (larger electrode).



      Modified by 2OVTurboJetta at 9:19 AM 4-10-2004

    35. 04-10-2004 12:07 PM #70
      Nothing like a poll to get people arguing over spark plugs again...

      They should maybe bold and underline the FAQ's or take it off cause no one reads it.

      IT's spark plugs people, Just use copper and change every 6500 miles.
      I used the autolites and didn't like them, Then i tried the champions and like them.

      Just try out different plugs and make a judgment, It's not a crazy HP loss or gain.

      My 2 cents.
      Kyle


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