Broken Sleeve on Electrical Harness leading to Trunk Lid - How to fix? [TOC, Photos done]

[brosen]

Mine is in the process of getting completely broken, see the photos, do you think it will make sense to submit my case if it's not fully broken yet ?

[PanEuropean]

Bernard:

What I see in the photos you have posted is breakage of the nylon webbing around the conduit. The more common (and more serious) problem is that the plastic conduit separates from the ferrule at the lower end.

Replacing this wiring harness is a very invasive procedure that can introduce other headaches. Unless you have a reason to get it replaced now (for example, you are covered by CPO warranty now, but won't be forever), I suggest you just leave it alone - that is what I would do if it was my car. Note that I say this after having been through the whole wiring harness replacement process, so, this is the voice of experience speaking.

Michael

[Zaphh]

The same thing is happening to me, but the mesh is not totall broken yet.

Is there any risk for the mesh to then jam into the sheath (and possibly crack the rear window if the cable folds) or (in your experience) is it relatively safe to leave it this way ?

Another option is to wrap some tape tightly around it...

What would you advise ?

P.

[testarossaguy]

Is it possible for a DYI'er to simply splice in an extra inch of length into this harness and releive the tension on the wires when the trunk is open? What is contained in this harness, is it simply wires or is there some other medium in there? The trunk "open" button (on driver's door) on my car quit working, but everything else functions fine so far.

[pirateat50]

The first time it was repaired (at about 35K) it was covered by VW's 50K warranty.

The second time it was repaired (at about 80K) I had the Real Driver Platinum extended warranty. I was told it does not cover "wiring looms."

[Paldi]

My mesh is partially frayed but not all the way around. I put tape over it and it's not holding up well, the shaft apparently is designed to "move" a little bit under the mesh. Tape tightly wrapped around the mesh keeps it from moving over the shaft in that area. I'm thinking of removing all the mesh and maybe putting a little bit of lubricant on the tube.


Modified by Paldi at 9:32 PM 9-1-2009

[PanEuropean]

Below is a photo showing the complete assembly that the mesh-covered conduit slides in and out of. You can get access to this assembly quite easily by removing the cover on the inside of the trunk lid - see the post entitled Retrofitting a Warning Triangle in Trunk Lid for an explanation of how to remove the cover.

Below that (in the subsequent post - I can only attach one photo to a post) is a photo showing what the inside of the assembly looks like.

My own guess - and I have to stress this is just a 'best estimate', not a recommendation based on any experience - is that it would probably be safest to remove all the mesh surround from the conduit, simply to prevent the mesh from getting caught up in the mechanism and jamming. Taping the mesh 'sounds' good, but eventually, the tape will fray or come loose or start to melt in the heat, and this could cause something to jam up.

FWIW.

Michael

[PanEuropean]

Here's what it looks like inside:

[brosen]

Agree, I think the best is to remove the whole mesh (the remaining one)

[dlouie]

When I had my trunk harness replaced, the plan was to replace the harness with the repair kit that splices within the trunk, thus not requiring complete disassembly of the left side interior which is way more invasive (as noted by Michael) if the entire harness was replaced. This is the the factory fix. The new part as noted in another thread is reinforced but I have my doubts about the reliability of the the design in general, reinforced or not. Speaking for myself, I would not be afraid to do the work myself, one just has to be methodical. My recommendation is that if there is any damage to the conduit, whether it be the a fraying sheath or separation of the ball, your days are numbered and when your are out of warranty, you will be on your own. It's safe to say that it cannot be glued and even if you try, it won't last very long.

My plan was, instead of splicing the wiring, I wanted the tech to install the new repair harness with a new connector located below the hatshelf in anticipation for future failures which I feel is inevitable. This would greatly facilitate future replacement. The tech said OK, I sourced a suitable connector, then the tech calls back and said VW wouldn't let him do it then it was back to the factory fix. Dumb!!! I should have told him to do it under the table as my tech was leaving the dealership anyways. Too bad, he was a really nice guy and capable.

Other thoughts...I have a feeling that when the part ages, friction on the sheath gradually increases and places too much stress on the joint between the ball and the conduit. Eventually, the ball will separate or the sheath will fray. Some preventative maintenance should be taken to keep the sheathing clean, free from fine dust that will increase friction and the potential of wear on the sheath. I'm toying with the idea of lightly lubricating the conduit regularly to prolong the life of the part. The trick is to find a good lubricant that will do the job and not attack the material. I was thinking about a dry wax type lubricant.

Damon

[Jagvar]

I finally got this fixed at the dealership for $1,100. The whole harness needed to be replaced because the tube had completely broken away from the ball socket.

To prevent the new part from fraying, the Phaeton tech suggested a dry wax-based lubricant for the mesh sleeve, which he said could be found in any cycle shop. Sure enough, I went to the bike store down the street and picked up a bottle for $5.95. Here's hoping it works!

[PeterMills]

There is a similar posting on :

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4490409

There may be other postings. I have posted on the above posting that it could be worth continuing on this one, only, now unless a moderator can combine both postings or suggest something better.

In view of these problems experienced by others I have treated my cable sheathing with spray silicone/teflon lubricant bought from a chandlers (boat store). I am also looking into the idea of using a black silicone mastic to second bond the woven sheathing at its base by the ball, to stop the separation of the woven sheathing from the ball (which has started very slightly), mindful that generally the woven sheathing needs to be free to move separate from the solid sheathing it covers.

I am interested in other peoples ideas on this.

I have looked up my Warrant Direct and I am unsure whether this would be covered should mine eventually require repair, which outcome I hope to avoid.

PETER M

UPDATE. Warranty Direct have advised that wiring looms are not covered on their Extracare policy.

Modified by PeterMills at 10:14 AM 9-9-2009

[PanEuropean]

Following Peter's suggestion, I have locked up the parallel discussion of the same topic that was taking place on this thread: Repairing or Replacing Electrical Conduit Leading to Trunk Lid. This will keep all the discussion in one place, which is here.

There is, however, some good background information on that other thread, so, if you have not already done so, please go have a look at it.

Michael

[PeterMills]

Michael,

Thanks for doing that.

This does look like an expensive bill that can be avoided, or greatly delayed, with a little care.

I don't know whether others are now opening and closing their boot (trunk) with extra care, but I certainly am! Now that I close it more slowly I notice a midway 'clunk' which is presumably the spring retraction mechanism.

PETER M

[woodrose200]

hello Michael. I have recently repaired this cable on my Phaeton (2004), as it looked like all hte other pictures in here. When I purchased the car recently, the rear trunk lid opener (electric) didnt work, and the right trunk lid taillight was out. I thought that all would be resolved when I replaced the cable harness. But - while the trunk lid opening button now works fine - the rear light still doesn't work. The mechanic at the local VW dealership has verified that there is power to the taillight now, where there wasn't before, but the taillight still doesnt work. I get the "check lights" warning ding all the time, whenever the car senses a change in ambient light. With so many little LED's in the taillight, it is hard to believe that they are all burned out. But it is also hard to believe that the entire assemble is faulty, which is what I am being told by the mechanic. As they are expensive to replace, I am wondering if we are overlooking something relatively simple to repair. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Jim

[PanEuropean]

Jim:

I think that you likely inadvertently crossed two wires, both of which have exactly the same colour coding (striping), but these two wires have very different functions. I made this mistake when I replaced my trunk wiring harness and it took me FOREVER to troubleshoot it.

Please see the explanation of how this mistake can happen, what the result of the mistake is, and how to correct it - that explanation is on page 1 of this discussion.

If all else fails - take the ferry over to Vancouver Island, I live in Sidney, and I'll try to help you sort it out.

Michael

[Zaphh]

Hi everyone,

Faced with a mesh that started degrading:

I first tried to put some tape around the mesh (after having cut the loose bits), but even though the tape was quite thin, the larger diameter did not make it through the sheath and this was strong enough to prevent the trunk from closing ! so the trunk re-opened and I had to remove the tape that had curled on the top part of the mesh...

I then mustered my (totally inexistant) sewing skills, and tried to reconstitute the mesh with strong button thread.

After one hour, the result is not wonderful (the original mesh is very tight around the tube) but up to now, the trunk opened and closed about 10 times without any problem.

I don't know how the situation will evolve, but will keep you posted.

P.

[cai]

Zaphh:

This is exactly the solution I suggested, but which I have not yet implemented, sometime ago. I have some time available this week, so I will definitely try it also.

Did you sew all around it, or did you try to bring the separated ends together? It is a bit difficult to see in the pictures, but I think you brought the sides together, which is what I had in mind.

Thank you for being the first to do it.

cai


Modified by cai at 6:14 AM 10-6-2009

[mhoepfin]

I wonder if this would work if caught early enough?

http://www.asseenontvguys.com/...D=678

[cai]

mhoepfin:

The problem I see with this product is that it is very difficult to bring the sides together. And, you may wind up with a clump or raised surface. The tolerance between this conduit and the hole through which it goes, does not seem to be very big. However, you do say early enough

cai

[Zaphh]

Quote, originally posted by cai »

Zaphh: This is exactly the solution I suggested, but which I have not yet implemented, sometime ago. I have some time available this week, so I will definitely try it also. Did you sew all around it, or did you try to bring the separated ends together? It is a bit difficult to see in the pictures, but I think you brought the sides together, which is what I had in mind. Thank you for being the first to do it. cai

Hi,

I brought the separated ends together after cutting the loose bits. I found it easier to take 2 needles, one to pass the thread, and the other to help get the first needle above and below the perpendicular threads, although I did not manage to weave through methodically.

I tried to grab enough of the original plastic threads so as to not create too much tension on them, but you will see that the original mesh is very tight, so took me quite a bit of patience and good will to obtain this so-so result.

I don't know how long it will stand. I hope I will not have to do it again more than once a year.

If it degrades too fast, I may be tempted to simply remove the mesh and leave the naked tube...

P.

[357Sig]

That's some serious Phaeton love.....

I'd do it for mine too, and I may have to. I guess you could say a stitch in time, saves (or at least delays) spending about a Thousand dollars.

Bill

[woodrose200]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Jim: I think that you likely inadvertently crossed two wires, both of which have exactly the same colour coding (striping), but these two wires have very different functions. I made this mistake when I replaced my trunk wiring harness and it took me FOREVER to troubleshoot it. Please see the explanation of how this mistake can happen, what the result of the mistake is, and how to correct it - that explanation is on page 1 of this discussion.

Thanks Michael. I printed off your pictures and notes from the first page of this topic, and took it back to the dealership. They were impressed with the quality of your photos, and have agreed to check it out again. But they are somewhat skeptical, because the light gets power through the wires when the switch is turned on, and loses it when the light is turned off, and also - if the wire is crossed with something else, then why isn't something else not working properly.

I decided to simply let them work it out, since the repair is covered by warranty. I will keep you posted on this.

Best regards,

Jim

[357Sig]

Jim,

What type of warranty do you have that covers this issue? I think a good number of us on the forum have VW Real Driver Platinum warranties on our Phaetons. The reports I have seen all indicate that this particular repair is not covered by those particular warranties.

Bill

[woodrose200]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Jim: I think that you likely inadvertently crossed two wires, both of which have exactly the same colour coding (striping), but these two wires have very different functions. I made this mistake when I replaced my trunk wiring harness and it took me FOREVER to troubleshoot it.

Hi Michael - the rear taillight out turned out to be a short to ground on some connection to the tail-light, rather than the crossed-wires that we thought. It took them some time to find it, but in time they did, and it is fine now. Thanks very much for your assistance in working this out.

Oh - and one more thing. Since you now live in victoria rather than Toronto, do you still advocate Summer/winter tires rather than all-season? I need new tires soon, and want to look at the most appropriate solution for Vancouver weather.

Jim

[woodrose200]

Quote, originally posted by 357Sig »

Jim, What type of warranty do you have that covers this issue? I think a good number of us on the forum have VW Real Driver Platinum warranties on our Phaetons. The reports I have seen all indicate that this particular repair is not covered by those particular warranties. Bill

Bill - I too have the VW Real Driver Platinum Warranty, and was successful at getting the repair made under warranty. I am not sure how or why, but it may be how it was "packaged" to the repair company.

I seem to remember that somewhere in the warranty coverage exclusions, there was some mention of "electrics" or some such thing that was not to be covered by the warranty. Presumably this would be the wiring system, and not the electronics system of the car. However, my failure was the retraction mechanism itself. This in turn led to the severing of some of the wires in the wire bundle which caused some of the problems that I was having.

But since replacing the mechanism involves changing not only the mechanism but also the cable, I got the full problem repaired. Under the Platinum warranty, they don't so much list the things that they cover, but rather they list the things that they don't cover. So since this wasn't in the list, it was covered. That's the way I see it anyway. If your repair company related the problem as a wiring cable issue, then perhaps it was declined "because of the way it was phrased", rather than for what the real problem was. You might try again, if this is the case. Just a thought....

Jim

[kend414]

I went to a vw parts website- entered 3D1 970 053 AJ for the trunk harness splice repair kit for trunk lids with the power close button. It states orig price was 349.50 discounted price 259.00 BUT DISCONTINUED! It's one thing to have a factory defective item that needs to be revised and strengthened but quite another to discontinue the part!
What do we do now?


Modified by kend414 at 9:06 AM 3-17-2010

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by kend414 »

What do we do now?

Well, the first thing to do is to not assume that simply because a part number is listed as discontinued on a single website, that means the part has been discontinued.

It is entirely possible that the part number and part number suffix that you entered has been superseded with a newer part number and/or part number suffix.

Best thing for you to do is go to a VW dealer, where you can get personal service from a Parts Specialist, and explain what it is that you are after (a repair harness for a Phaeton trunk). Bring your VIN along with you. The Parts Specialist at the VW dealer will be able to look after you far better than any do-it-yourself website can.

Michael

[invisiblewave]

The only time I've had great service from a parts "specialist" was when I made an international call to Gilbert Lawson in Altrincham. I've dealt with several in the US, and every single one of them has been unhelpful and severely lacking in knowledge. On the flappy paddle call I made a couple of weeks ago, I eventually gave up because he was apparently unable to find the two trim pieces on the diagram.

[kend414]

Michael, I may have come to an incorrect conclusion but it was really meant as a question. I'm hoping your correct in that the part number has been superceded. I agree it is possible but all the other parts I've ever entered have always have shown the superceded PN. I've never come across a "discontinued part" on a Phaeton part.
As far as the local parts specialist ordering the correct parts for me, from what I've read ,a few have had the wrong part delivered to them several times for this exact repair. I've always obtained better information here than at my local dealer. They don't even know what a Phaeton IS and those that do, ask that you not bring the name up again.
If someone knows the correct part number for this item, would you please share it with the forum.
The original part number and a picture was shown in a previous post but it seems that number doesn't enter any of the VW dealers part websites anymore.
Does anyone know if this part is indeed discontinued or has been supersceded? If so, would you post the new part number?

I'd also like to know if the 2009 models in Europe use the same system or if it is possible to upgrade to the newer system.

Thanks to all.

[kend414]

Ok, it seems PN 3D1 970 053 AJ has been superceded by PN 3D1 970 053 AN. So it is still available from VW.
Michael, I removed the website I had listed earlier but in all fairness to them, they are not as you suggested a "do it yourself " website but an actual VW dealership's parts dept. When I emailed them the email was returned from the dealership. If you want to know which dealership let me know and I'll PM you. It was one job I had hoped to escape and my anxiety got worse when I couldn't find the part.

[PanEuropean]

Hi Ken:

There's nothing wrong with that particular internet vendor (1st VW Parts . com). They are well known and have a good reputation.

What I meant by "do it yourself" is that when you go into an online business such as the above, you are "doing it yourself". If you go to a VW dealership and talk to the Parts Specialist, you get the benefit of all the knowledge that the Parts Specialist has. That's likely why you were able to discover that the original part number had been superseded.

The parts specialist at my VW dealer has been there for 20 years, he is an incredible source of knowledge. The parts guys (and girls) are not simply clerks who go and fish objects out of storage bins, they are true specialists in their own right. An online vendor cannot and does not provide this level of service and this added value. That is probably one of the main reasons why the online vendor sells the parts for considerably less than the VW dealer does.

Michael

[Zaphh]

Btw, while this thread is revived, let me tell you that my sewing repair is still going strong...

I keep my fingers crossed, but I can do with a 1h approximate sewing job every year (but we'll see how long this will last, hopefully more than a year).

P.

[ruddyone]

Just wanted to chime in. I completely agree with Michael. One point I would make about 1stvwparts though is that they have you put your VIN number in with your order. And match the part to your VIN.

That said, I gave them a call and interestingly enough they are actually a VW dealer. I spoke to the parts specialist and they looked up the parts while I was on the phone. They gave me the MSRP and also their "wholesale" price.

Best Regards,

Nate

[HunterST]

My nylon mesh was torn through for months, but about 3 weeks ago the plastic conduit tubing separated from the round ferrule at the lower end, and the trunk wouldn't close because the plastic tubing was getting in the way. I've opened a service ticket with the dealership here in Austin; they are ordering parts - I've got the VW platinum extended warranty, but I reported this problem before my factory warranty was up. So we'll see.

After disassembling the unit, I am CONVINCED that the source of the problem is from the nylon webbing first fraying due to friction, and then once completely frayed through it bunches up inside the plastic housing, and interferes with the sliding action of the plastic conduit. I think it's wise to open the unit up and completely remove the nylon webbing if yours has frayed through - I suspect believe it's purpose is cosmetic, although it might be there to make the plastic slide more easily - not sure. Regardless, I see this as a design flaw.