Broken Sleeve on Electrical Harness leading to Trunk Lid - How to fix? [TOC, Photos done]

[kend414]

I agree with your assessment. My nylon mesh sheath has been separated from the ball end by 2 inches for 1 year. After the rigid conduit separated from the ball, the nylon mesh cannot be seen. I believe it is bunched up in the housing. I believe when this nylon webbing snags inside, upon opening of the trunk lid, the snagged mesh offers considerable resistance and literally rips the conduit from it's ball base. This nylon webbing has considerable strength. I've seen , albeit on a larger scale, the same nylon braid used as a tow rope. Our cars have protection while closing(pinch protection) but nothing when the trunks opens except maybe a fuse to the hydraulic pump. This is pure speculation on my part. I would think it important that VW advise owners how to safely close the trunk should this repair become necessary. It's an important safety issue as if there is an electrical short from the wires no longer being protected if pinched and the part of our tailights are no longer visible with the trunk lid open.
I would like to know if current year models utilize our current system consisting of the rigid conduit with nylon mesh.


Modified by kend414 at 8:18 AM 3-20-2010

[Aren Jay]

One wonders if one could replace the nylon sheath with a solid plastic sheath?

[ct boy]

I am having issues as well. My nylon covering has frayed and the hard plastic conduit/sleeve has separated from the ball and retracted about 3 inches. Wires are exposed near the ball. I am wondering how critical a situation this is. If I am careful closing the trunk and there are no electrical/wiring issues, can I continue to use this or should I correct the situation immediately?

I have a few observations/questions:

1. How exactly is the rear window broken? I presume the stiff plastic conduit/sleeve becomes trapped at the trunk opening and snaps/rotates clockwise (as you are looking at the car from the left rear wheel). On its upward clockwise arc, I presume it catches the underside of the window and cracks it. Is this the mechanism?

2. If the window is cracked in this way, would it be possible to prevent this by trimming the conduit/sleeve so that is shorter than the trunk lid when fully opened, therefore preventing the impingement? You could tape the wires together near the ball and they would "dangle" down into the trunk when closed--but I don't suppose that would be a big deal.

3. Is the retractible feature of the trunk wiring harness spring loaded or is it passively compressed by the combination of the force of closing the trunk combined with the stiffness of the conduit? If the latter, the solution outlined in #2 may not work as the wiring would then no longer be retracted into the trunk lid.

4. How difficult is the job of replacing the mechanism with the replacement for the DIY guy? It seems pretty straightforward--only complicated by a lot of wire splicing. The part is $250 from 1stvwparts, but others have quoted a total repair job at a dealer of over $1000. Is that $750 in labor costs?

Any thoughts on these issues?

Thanks

[Zaphh]

Hi everyone,

A couple of weeks ago, I noticed that the stitch I did ont the mesh was coming loose, so decided tonight to repair the mesh again, one year after I did it first.

Unfortunately, it turns out the mesh was badly worn out so rather than trying to stitch it back as I did the first time, I decided to simply remove it and stay with the plastic tube exposed.

However, when I removed the mesh, I saw on the bottom that the tube was starting to part with the round ferrule, but I still think that I may be able to glue them together before they part away.

My question is the following: how do you get access to the ferrule as in these photos:

Close-up of tube and sleeve where they enter the ferrule

I removed the screws holding the bottom of the hat shelf, but didn't see how to unclip the plastic lining that contained the ferrule...

Thanks for any help on this.

P.

[PeterMills]

Pierre,

I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know that my own attempts to stop the solid plastic sleeve from separating from the bottom ball/ferrule failed; I hope you have more luck.

What I did was make a flexible collar from a piece of semil flexible tube and glue it over the weak joint - effectively a splint.

I was quite proud of the result, and opened the boot several times to congraulate myself on saving myself the cost of the short harness.

A few weeks later it had come away and so I had the short harness job done by Wolsey VW Ipswich, at just over £500. An out of warranty 'known fault' application to VW UK was turned down, to the surprise of Wolsey (they had successfully had all my doors covered for tiny bubbles in paint issue the common in the UK). Wolsey kindly helped out 50% from some special goodwill arrangement they have for loyal multi-VW owning customers.

They told me that the short harness change went better than they expected, and was actually problem free.

My general point being that it may be that you are trying to put off the inevitable.

Herewith before and after photo's of my failed repair! You can see I went over to velcro to for the ferrule cover.





PETER M

[Zaphh]

Thanks for your experience. but how did you get the ferrule cover off ?

I think you were unlucky with your repair because you kept the mesh. I removed mine, and hope I will be able to glue the tube to the ferrule using some epoxy putty such as this:
http://www.rapidonline.com/1/1/4519-...b2a6ef5c5bcd81

This putty sticks to practically everything and becomes hard as a rock.

But to do a good job, I need good access to the ferrule + tube. I'd like to remove the long plastic cover on the top of the boot but have no clue as how to remove it...

[PeterMills]

Pierre,

I am not sure I understood your original question. If you were asking about how to remove the small local plastic cover around the ferule, i.e. this morceau:



Then I can help, I thought you were talking about another area.

This trim on my car was attached with a superglue when I took it off, I think because someone before had broken it on removal (I think I know who, and not Wolsey VW Ipswich, or Dresden). However it has two lugs that do look a bit 'one way' so yours may break them with levering off as well. I would just do it, and then trim off the remaining lug with a craft knife and refix after with industrial velcro as I did. A very satisfactory repair, allowing easy access to maintain your ferrule repair - if you take that route - and to silicone lubricate etc.

PETER M

BTW thanks for the link. have used 2 part epoxy putty like that before, fantastic stuff. I also love the site, did not know of it before, great repair etc. kit in there!

[jkuisma]

If you were asking about how to remove the small local plastic cover around the ferule, i.e. this morceau:

That little piece of plastic is glued on from the factory. It is not available as a spare part but comes with the large trim part which runs the whole width of the car at the top of the trunk opening. This large plastic part is surprisingly cheap - about 20 euros! It is a PITA to detach - you need to pull out the trunk opening side trims first. I think your brute force + velcro approach is the way to go if you just need access to the ferrule.

[Zaphh]

Thanks for the answers. I'll gulp a couple of and take the bruteforce approach

[PeterMills]

Jouko,

Thanks for correcting me on that. I shall apologise in my prayers this evening for wrongly suspecting it was a post delivery bodge!

Pierre,

Let us know how you get on. The fastening lugs I talk about, on the back of the cover, are pretty puny so it is down to how much glue they used in the factory on you car I would say. On mine it was not much.

PETER M

[racefaith]

For what's its worth, i went to my dealer and asked the Svc Mgr his advice. (he's also their old Phaeton tech) He said to replace it since he did have one a few years back unseat itself and flip up just as the trunk finished closing and cracked the rear window when the trunk clamped down on it.

I have the VW Real Driver Platinum warranty and he said it was 1 quick call and got the part and labor approved....

Looks good as new now (but sadly, cant see how its any different design wise) still the same sheath and all...

[Jxander]

I just saw a 2004 Phaeton on an independent lot in Maitland/Winter Park, FL. They said they had purchased it from my VW dealer. I assume VW let it go because it was not able to be Certified and thus was not worth enough to mess with. It looked moderately well cared for but had a cracked rear window. I asked if they knew what had caused that. They did not know, so I told them it was likely to be a result of the wire casing breaking loose. They already had the window on order but I noted that it would probably break again if they did not deal with the wiring tube. i don't think they wanted to hear that.

[Debart]

I have the same problem with wiring harness.
So, after reading this thread I know that reparation is rather impossible in case of full separation of tube and ball..
I checked ETKA and I've found three parts related to cableway:
1. 3D0971446L
2. 3D0971417C
3. 3D1970053AC / 3D1970053AH

But what is what? Could somebody explain (or better put a photos) of these first two PN?
The third one is full electrical bundle, with cableway AFAIK, but I don't know what is part under (1) and (2).

Could somebody help?

[PeterMills]

Debart,

I don't know were you are and which car you have, these two factors affecting the loom required, as this post and another related post (identified previously) explain.

The parts my Wolsey Ipswich (UK) usEd on my manual booted SWB 2006 3.0Tdi were:

Loom 3D1970053AM £171.38 plus VAT
Connectors x16 000979941 £32 plus VAT
Connectors x1 000979942 6.00 plus VAT

and labour was £247.50 plus VAT which I am guessing at 3 hours.

I don't have any photos.

PETER M

[Debart]

Debart,

I don't know were you are and which car you have (...)

I updated my profile I'm from Poland and I have 2004 NAR phaeton modified to EU (replaced dashboard, radio and navi + some computers)

Thank You Peter for your quick reply, but I'm still thinking what is PN 3D0971446L and 3D0971417C.
According ETKA it seems it is plastic tube and box hidden in trunk "klappe" without electrical wiring.
Is it posiible to buy cableway only (The ferrule+tube+plastic box) without electrical wiring and connectors ?

[PeterMills]

I updated my profile ..............Is it posiible to buy cableway only (The ferrule+tube+plastic box) without electrical wiring and connectors ?

Debart,

Sorry I don't myself know the answer to that. Perhaps try your dealer?

PETER M

[Debart]

I have a colleague from another VW forum who has a private company specialised in... welding of plastics. Next week we will try to join ferrule and tube by ... WELDING
If it will be succesfull we can keep 600-900USD in our pocket
I will keep you informed about results of welding instead adhesive bonding

[Zaphh]

Hi everyone,

So here are the results of my efforts to solve the problem.

1) I removed the ferrule cover with brute force (ended up breaking the plastic hooks that held it in place in the long horizontal trim). The hooks were not glued, but moulded in the cover, and then inserted in the trim. I was lucky enough that breaking the plastic hooks still allowed the cover to somehow click back into place after the job was done. If it falls over, I will use Pete's velcro trick.

2) I had a very good friend of mine come to see the problem. He is very handy and has a lot of experience in mechanics, so I thought he would be of great help. Contrary to what was said above in this thread, it appeared that the ball could easily be dislodged by opening the lips of the cup with a flat screwdriver. This allowed for more space to examine what was going on.

3) As you will see from the photo(s) below, we removed as much of the mesh as we could, exposing the crack in the plastic semi-rigid tube. Actually, it seems that the tube was not damaged, but that it was the assembly between the tube and the ferrule that gave out.

4) Dislodging the ball showed that there was a tit (to echo some other current posts ) on the bottom of the ball, that apparently prevented it from over-rotating. My friend and I suspect that this tit was partly responsible for the dismantling of the tube-ferrule assembly: if the tit was not at the right place by a couple of degrees, it would prevent the ball from rotating enough to allow the tube to get to a perfect vertical when the boot is open, therefore exerting a really strong force on the tube/ball joint. We therefore chose to remove to cut the tit from the ball. This will allow the ball to rotate past vertical, hopefully removing a constraint.

5) The bottom of the tube was irregular, so we cut it up a bit in order to widen the access ot the inside of the tube. Our plan was to push in as much epoxy putty as possible in order to strenghten the assembly from the inside and get the epoxy putty to adhere not only on the outside of the tube, but also on the inside of the tube. So, while one of us opened up the crack in the tube, the other one would cram in as much putty as possible inside with a flat screw driver. When no more could go in, we re-inserted the tube in the ball, and wrapped some putty around the assembly (note the sheet of paper to preserve the rubber seal from the putty).

6) Then, we let cure for a couple of hours (the hex socket under the ball is there to maintain some pressure while the epoxy cured).

The result looks quite clean and sturdy. I also included a picture of the putty we used in case someone else (Debart) wants to try this solution. Without the mesh, the boot now opens and closes flawlessly. The putty is supposed to keep slightly flexible, which, I think, is quite good. Note that the putty we used took 20mn before it started curing. This was nice as it gave us enough time to get everything quite right. Some putty curing in 5mn was available, but this would have been a too short time to do a good job.

Finally, I will paint the putty with shiny black paint, so as to match the colour of the tube.

Btw, I removed the boot lining in order to get access to the complete tube (cf. the link on how to install a warning triangle in the first page of this topic) so as to remove the wire mesh up the the ring that holds it to the tube.

The result is quite clean. I don't know how long it will hold.

Pierre

[Debart]

Zaphh

The most important info is we can separate ferrule from the "holder"
I will try to weld it + maybe some glue can help.
Thank you - it is very usefull information who want to pay hundreds dollars for one broken plastic tube....

[Zaphh]

Hi Debart,

You may want to look again at my post above. I added the corresponding photos.

P.

[Debart]

Yes. I need to do that. 985pln (250Euros) is to much for plastic tube

[Debart]

OK my friends !
Today i visited my colleague who is specialised in welding of plastics.
We made repair of tube - ferrule joint

I think it is the best method to repair this part. Please find herebelow a short video from welding of ferrule Repair has been done by special equipment and it looks more like TIG welding or soldering than typical welding .

BUT IT WORKS !
Time spent: 1 hour (95% of time we needed for disassemblying covers of trunk lid and shelf .
Cost: 12 USD

[Zaphh]

Great job !

To me, this looks more like tin soldering. Anyway, did you also glue the mesh to the ferrule or did you remove it ?

Then, did you remove the small tit on the bottom of the ball ? I think that this tit creates a big effort on the tube/ferrule link, so if you have not done it and if you want your repair to hold, I would advise you to trim it down. Up to now, I haven't had any adverse effect of removing it.

P.

[dlouie]

Thank you for the great video. This may be the most economical and least labor intensive solution yet. Has he identified the specific type of plastics involved and were there any concerns regarding overheating the wires inside the conduit? I had mine replaced with an updated part but I suspect it will happen again. Apparently, the tools range from $70 to $350.
Thanks again.
Damon

[mrhavis]

Hello All -

My Phaeton is now exhibiting separation of the plastic sleeve (that the wiring passes through) where it meets the "ball" base. I will be taking it to the dealer for repair.

I open/close the trunk numerous times per day. And I am keen on not having the rear window cracked as described in some of the posts.

However, looking at the part, and reading the posts - I cannot visualize how the window can be cracked.

Can someone describe how this happens to me - exactly?

Thank you -

Mike

[Debart]

Great job !

To me, this looks more like tin soldering. Anyway, did you also glue the mesh to the ferrule or did you remove it ?

Then, did you remove the small tit on the bottom of the ball ? I think that this tit creates a big effort on the tube/ferrule link, so if you have not done it and if you want your repair to hold, I would advise you to trim it down. Up to now, I haven't had any adverse effect of removing it.

P.

I removed the mesh totally and the tit has been cut. Now it works properly

[DNAguy]

Just had the identical problem fixed....A $1,700 repair not covered by the platinum warrantee because it involved the "wiring." Major bummer....

[mrhavis]

Hello All -

I access my trunk often, and the plastic tube came out of the round "ball" part - as it seems to happen to a lot of our Phaetons. I am checking with the dealer regarding repair.

But I also contacted Urethane Supply Company www.urethanesupply.com - about what products they might have for a DIY repair.

This company seems to be the experts in supplies for plastic repair. Their videos are very informative. They do need to know what kind of plastics are involved here in order to make the best recommendation. And I am not sure what to tell them.

Does anyone know what the plastic tube/sleeve is made from? And what that molded "ball" part is molded from?

Thanks -

Mike

[johnt26]

Hi All,

I'm having the issue with the sleeve separating from the ball as well. The mesh has also crept about halfway up the sleeve, probably the cause of the separation?

Because of this forum I noticed that the sleeve was cracked when I purchased the car last month. I asked the appraiser from Fidelity to look at it along with some other items, he denied the repair.

After reading this thread, and the others, it seems that the best course of action is to replace the short harness with the redesigned part.

Have any DIYers complete the harness job themselves?

I'll give my parts guru, Albert at Holbert's, a call tomorrow to check on the pricing.

I may order it, check for the correct part, then decide if I want to complete the work myself.
Although my 11 year old son and chief assistant could fit in the trunk better than I can!
And he wields a mean wire cutter!

Any suggestions?

Thanks!!

[Paldi]

My trunk tube mesh is frayed about half way around the plastic tube. The mesh is still holding in position and the tube appears to be intact with the ball. I am worried the fraying will continue to get worse and so am considering cutting and removing the entire length of mesh from the ball to the edge pf the trunk and perhaps putting some sort of lube grease on the plastic tube. Do you think this is a good plan or will it likely make things worse? What is the purpose of the mesh?

[johnt26]

Paldi,
Pictures will follow shortly.
I am not an expert but...
I believe the mesh is strictly aesthetic.
I was able to take apart the trunk in minutes using the triangle install directions in this thread and my new trim tools!

I took apart the rectangular box that the tube slides into, it comes apart easily too once removed from the trunk lid with three screws. The two halves of the box slide away from each other, one goes up the other down.
The tube simply slides into a plastic sleeve the shape of the tube inside the box. The problem, IMHO, is that the mesh gathers inside the sleeve in the box and binds the tube from sliding easily which puts tremendous force on the ball and the screws that hold the box to the trunk lid. There is a plastic "stop" on the tube inside of the box that prevents the harness from extending past the end of box, as the mesh material gathers in front of that stop it effectively makes the tube shorter. And, I think the mesh could intermittently bunch up, in other words, sometimes it works just fine, others not so much. Even removing the mesh I could see how much trouble it could cause, once some of it got on top of itself it was very difficult to move so I could cut it.

I have the power trunk so the hydraulics can easily pull the plastic tube out of the ball or break the tube. I wonder if the manual trunk users would feel it binding?
I was lucky in that the tube simply pulled out of the ball and can readily be re-glued. Also the bosses that the screws go into in the box are relieved about 3/16" from the force.
Since I removed the mesh all the way to the stop in the box I'd bet there won't be any force on the tube/ball conection any longer.
I ordered some Devco "Plastic Welder" adhesive in black from Grainger that I'll use to re-attach the ball to the tube.
Edit..the link wouldn't work so try a a google search of:
"Devco Plastic welder black"
I'll post pictures and results when I'm finished.
I would like everything to stay factory but I'd rather do this repair and do without the mesh than perform major surgery on the harness that could give me problems later.

Paldi, If you need a hand taking yours apart and cutting the mesh all the way up to and into the box, bring it up my way!
BTW, my tube was slightly disconnected from the ball and the mesh looked pretty good when I purchased the car last month. As soon as the mesh crept up and got stuck inside the box, the ball disconnected. We use the trunk a lot!
I'll post when I complete the job and see what happens.
Caution: don't let too much of the Devcon Epoxy get into the tube/ball, the residue can cause a sharp edge that will cut wires. Please see post 108 for more.

[Paldi]

I wonder if cutting the mesh off that I can "see" is enough?

I don't want to take the trunk covers off to dismantle the black box to get every bit of the mesh if I don't have to. Hoping the two or three inches of mesh I can't get too isn't enough to jam things up.

Like you, I also have the power trunk.

[johnt26]

I wonder if cutting the mesh off that I can "see" is enough?

I don't want to take the trunk covers off to dismantle the black box to get every bit of the mesh if I don't have to. Hoping the two or three inches of mesh I can't get too isn't enough to jam things up.

Like you, I also have the power trunk.

The more of it you remove the better, all or nothing may be a better description.
Take a look at the picture below. The ring on the tube is the end of the tube and stops the tube from exiting the box. Cutting as much as you can see not only leaves several inches inside the box but if it is already partially curled up you maybe leaving even more. The best way, again IMHO, is to cut all of the mesh back to the ring on the tube or whatever is left can bunch up in the canal between the stop and the ring and cause excessive forces on the tube/ball connection. Post 15 shows similar damage to what I found as far as the screw holes being elongated from the force. Notice that the attach screw that can be seen in the picture is not in its slot but well above it.
The big issue in my mind is, if the tube snaps above the ball, as many have, it would be very difficult to repair. Like I said, I got lucky in that mine simply pulled out of the ball.
When I get mine operational, I'll let you know how it works.
As far as lube, the smooth plastic tube slides inside of another smooth plastic tube, I'm not sure that the mesh is there for lubricity. However, I wonder if it there for strength to avoid rubbing through the plastic, I doubt it though.

Again, I would be glad to help remove the trunk and cut the mesh if you're ever up in Bucks County! An hour tops!

Can anyone else chime in on how their tube is holding up meshless?

[Zaphh]

Can anyone else chime in on how there tube is holding up meshless?

No problem with mine since I did the mod.

P.

[johnt26]

Hi All,

My repair didn't last, well technically it did last but during the time the hydraulic trunk was yanking on the harness it damaged some of the wires..that's why my taillight was out.

I can see several other wires, including at least one that goes to the latch that are about to break.

It's time to do the repair correctly and replace the entire (short) harness!

Does anyone have the latest part number for the partial harness with the power trunk option?

Thanks!

EDIT: 2/2013, see harness replacement DIY post 196 here.