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    VWVortex


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    Thread: Why do good turbos go bad ?

    1. 03-24-2005 01:49 AM #1
      Ok guys heres a question I hope someone will offer some good insight into. I bought a 90 corrado with an atp turbo kit on it with only a few thousand miles on it. I have been running 15lbs of boost on her and she runs great. I started using a tad bit of oil and assumed it was the valve seals although the head is rebuilt. Turns out the turbo is the one using oil. Now why would a t3 super 60 have shaft play and burn oil after only a few thousand miles ? Oil feed and return lines were in good shape. i was told by a turbo "expert" that the engine was not designed for a turbo and thats why it failed....seemed kinda ridiculous to me. does anyone have any ideas ? Id hate to throw a new turbo on and have the same thing happen.

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      03-24-2005 02:46 AM #2
      you tell me. mine went bad after 6k miles. maybe the turbos atp uses are ****.
      1.8T A4 mmmm

    3. 03-24-2005 06:45 AM #3
      sounds like someone lied to you about the milage on the turbo....and btw ATP uses a Garret t3 turbo which is not junk...just my .02 cents

    4. 03-24-2005 08:49 AM #4
      If not enough time is given to the turbo to cool down, you knicker the seals and bearings. Oile will stand still and coke up. Premature failure is what its called. Give the engine about 1-2 mins to cool off meaning, let it idle for some time before shutting it down.


      Modified by AXISMODE at 4:50 AM 3-24-2005

    5. 03-24-2005 08:55 AM #5
      When my brother ran a turbo (T04b) on his 8v scirocco, he went through a set of bearings twice in less than 10k miles; had it rebuilt twice in that period by a reputable rebuilder.

      Turned out that the oil pressure to the turbo was way too high. Sleeve-bearings need low oil pressure to work well apparently? That's what we've read anyway. The solution would have been to put some kind of check valve in the oil feed line to lower the oil pressure to the turbo.

      I don't know if your T3 is ball-bearing or sleeve-bearing; From what I've gathered this doesn't apply ball bearing turbos, but don't quote me on that.

      I'm not a turbo expert, but I have to disagree with your turbo "expert" in regards to the engine. The G60 engine is made for forced induction, plain and simple.


    6. 03-24-2005 08:56 AM #6
      turbo timer

    7. Banned Remmy Dot's Avatar
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      03-24-2005 09:17 AM #7
      You guys had better start taking care of your cars a little more...turbos rather.

      Mileage only means so much on a turbo. I mean my friend got a brand new (supposedly) Garrett from someone (I won't mention any names) and on STARTUP the turbo was puffing out white smoke. I've had mine for about 4000 miles with no problems so far...and going and going and going.


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      03-24-2005 01:48 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by cbgthor »
      I don't know if your T3 is ball-bearing or sleeve-bearing; From what I've gathered this doesn't apply ball bearing turbos, but don't quote me on that.

      i was told to put a restrictor in line for my gt28rs (dual bb), and that was on a motor ment for turbo (like that makes a difference... it was a 20v)

      -Drew


    9. 03-24-2005 07:27 PM #9
      yup...no more then 10 psi and that might be too much on some applications.

    10. 03-24-2005 08:27 PM #10
      Correction...a few years ago they used the turbonetics t3 series which is owned by garret. It is however a turbonetics turbo on my car and not a garret. ATP now uses strictly garrett.

    11. 03-24-2005 08:30 PM #11
      My turbo is taken care of as well as the car......it turns out that there was no oil restrictor in the car.

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      03-25-2005 02:51 AM #12
      Quote, originally posted by star77fire »
      My turbo is taken care of as well as the car......it turns out that there was no oil restrictor in the car.

      ive got a turbonetics too. i also have a greddy TT which runs more then a $5 hooker. i geuss ill be adding a oil restrictor to my parts list lol
      1.8T A4 mmmm

    13. 03-25-2005 09:13 PM #13
      Good idea...a stupid $15 part that th guy who built this thing forgot ruined my turbo !!!

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      03-26-2005 04:43 AM #14
      were can you get an oil restricter?
      1.8T A4 mmmm

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      03-26-2005 04:49 AM #15
      1.8T A4 mmmm

    16. 03-26-2005 09:06 AM #16
      1. Too much oil pressure - folks think they can get on it before the oil temps are nominal for viscosity - untrue, especially in aftermarket turbo scene.
      2. Improper lubrication- synthethic, changed every 3k
      3. cheap rebuilt turbo's - are you sure the turbo was new or a rebuild? who rebuilt it? The original manufacture or some redneck?
      4. Improper turbo selection - compressor surge - kills em dead fast.
      5. By nature of being in a corrado, it will fail for no damn reason

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      03-26-2005 04:06 PM #17
      its just kinda weird, i never beat my car when its cold im anal about letting it idle and warm up before i drive anywere. *shrug*
      1.8T A4 mmmm

    18. 03-26-2005 04:55 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by nopistons »
      were can you get an oil restricter?

      I also wanan know...and how are they installed?


    19. 03-27-2005 02:12 AM #19
      atp has them...go on their website and look under accesories I think. My turbo was new.....not rebuilt. I know there are issues with the rebuilt ones, but any turbo will have issues if you are running to much oil pressure.

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      03-27-2005 02:20 AM #20
      What about using the stock oil feed for the supercharger instead of right off of the oil filter bracket? Would that not work, is it too high or low pressure?

      btw: I heard that VW designed the motor to have a turbo, but put a supercharger in it for packaging and other reasons. On that note how much clearance should I beat into my firewall for the turbo?


      Modified by thetwodubheads at 10:22 PM 3-26-2005


    21. 03-27-2005 04:37 PM #21
      Doesn't matter if you use the supercharger lines, the pressure is still way too high. As far as vw designing it for a turbo.....I highly doubt that is true.

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      03-28-2005 12:11 AM #22
      just what i've heard from a tuner that was around building motors when it came out, I believed him. Anyway, why do people run a line out of where the pressure sender is, if it needs to be blocked?

    23. 03-28-2005 01:47 AM #23
      whoa whoa whoa buddy.... lets not go pointing fingers here.

      i ran my previous 2.0T and had no issues without an oil restrictor, i have read that they are needed and all. but i don't ever remember seeing them to be a requirement to turbocharge a car.


    24. 03-28-2005 10:30 PM #24
      I am not putting fingers at you, I am blaming the guy who built the car in the first place. After doing research on vortex and talking to a guy who builds turbos, and talking to my girlfriends brother who builds turbos for porsches and severla other sources I have come to the conclusion that if you do not run a oil restrictor chances are extremely high that you will blow out the seals on the turbo and cause the turbo to go bad. I know some people have gotten away without running them, but check vortex. If you ask the people whose turbo went bad within a short period of time you will find out that most either bought a crappy turbo or had no oil restrictor.


      Please note that I found this on atp's website:

      "Oil inlet restrictor for T series 1/8" NPT. Oil inlet restrictor for all T3, T3/T4, T04, T72 etc. Turbos with built-in oil restrictor (of .060 hole size). Installed at the oil inlet on turbo to reduce max oil pressure going into the turbo to prevent turbo seal damage due to excess pressure. Input is 1/8" NPT male and output is 1/8 NPT female."


      I am not blaming anyone other than myself for not checking the car over better.


    25. 03-28-2005 10:43 PM #25
      High pressure is bad, get a restrictor, which you have talked to me about already.

      Also, let it cool down or you will get oil coaked in the turbo, then your bearings will fail.

      Use good oil, not too thin or it can make its way through the seals.

      Good oil, that is clean and a restrictor and cooling down the turbo are imporant parts of keeping your setup running strong for years to come.


      Good thread, and Corrados rule cant wait to get my ecu back and fire up the 1.8T raddo.

      Cheers


      Clayton


    26. 03-28-2005 10:45 PM #26
      Thanks for the input man!!!

    27. 03-29-2005 12:24 AM #27
      Quote, originally posted by star77fire »
      Thanks for the input man!!!

      no prob 14 bux is cheap insurance for evan a 400$ turbo.

      I recommend them with all units to increase the chances of their longevity.


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      03-29-2005 01:00 AM #28
      i just ordered mine from atp a little under $20 shipped. its sucks i had to learn about this the hard way. but its good im not still sitting here thinking what the heck. i use 10w-40, have a turbotimer, and always let my car warmup and cool down properly and this thing is already blowin smoke with less then 6k miles on it. live and learn i geuss.
      1.8T A4 mmmm

    29. 03-29-2005 03:04 AM #29
      If you need a new turbo, Rippinralf is your man, he has great prices on brand new turbos and the guy knows what he's talking about

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      03-29-2005 03:06 AM #30
      these sound like a good idea, but after talking to my buddy at the local tuner shop, he actually called the one of the Garret supplyers, and the guy there said he has never heard of good a turbo failing because of stock oil pressur, and that as long as the outlet line and fittings are larger than inlet there will be no problem with the pressure as long as it is not rediculously high. I'm not saying it is a bad idea, but just check your lines also

    31. 03-29-2005 05:03 AM #31
      I ran my G60 turbo oil line off the rear of the head for 2 years,no problems,no restrictor needed.If you live in a cold area you may need restrictor,but I have built over 20 turbo cars and never used a restrictor,except for the GT-R BB turbos.........For VW turbos,the rear of the head,or the oil filter housing is excellent for turbo oil feed.
      PS some turbos leak right out of tyhe box,some last for 100,000 miles,some last for 30,000.......it's half TLC and half luck of the draw.

    32. 03-29-2005 12:34 PM #32
      Quote, originally posted by 12Sec Rado’ »
      some last for 30,000.......it's half TLC and half luck of the draw.


      Its true, I never had one pop out of the box, but 20bux for a restrictor shipped is cheap insurnace for a turbo that cost 600-2000bux.


    33. 03-29-2005 01:21 PM #33
      Hate to say it but a LOT of failure comes from installation. Too many times the turbos are not primed of any oil whatso ever. The intial start up and idle will kill the bearing/sleeves faster than too high pressure or too little. I'm not fond of rebuilt turbos. They have been heated up too many times and there's a reason they failed to begin with. Even with new shafts, most of the time remanufacters drill out the center sections and add thicker seals (changing tolerances). I've seen cracked housings and sand blasting media left in center sections from Diesel Injection.

    34. 03-29-2005 01:35 PM #34
      sidenote: Think of it this way. If you were to build an engine and not use assembly lube but started the motor on dry bearings...how long do you think that motor would last? Most new and reman'd turbos do not come preoiled. Only company i know that preoils is Vargas but they use rebuilt turbo's...

    35. 03-29-2005 04:46 PM #35
      I have size 4 inlet and size 10 return on my turbo, so there is def. no problem there. I don't know that the people at garrett are all knowledgable. I talked to one about the play in my turbo and he said that it was ok for the turbo to have as much play as .035 to .050 . This seemed rather high. I later found out that you should have no more than .003 to .005 shaft play! What a big difference!! Yes garrett makes awesome turbos, but not all their tecs know what they are talking about.

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