Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 25 of 43

    Thread: Haldex upgrade question

    1. 04-01-2005 01:45 PM #1
      Like many of you, I have read and re-read the article in the current European Car about the Haldex upgrade. I have read and re-read all the postings from Rich at EIP and from Ian (Daemon42), but still I wonder...
      It seems to me that having the rear wheels get torque faster would also be a tremendous advantage in the snow and slippery conditions, not just the autocross track where it was tested, no? (personally I got the R for foul weather traction more than its track abilities)
      I have a basic understanding of how the Haldex works, but I don't get how with the upgraded software it works faster; does it just "think" its slipping when the same amount of torque wouldn't have upset the original software?
      I think this is a great marketing idea too - the reviews here on the 'tex and in European Car both say "its for advanced drivers only" and "only expereinced and skilled drivers will notice the difference" and other similar disqualifiers - well what R owner do you know wouldn't say they are an "advanced" driver? I know I think I'm pretty good, and I'm sure you do to, right?
      So the question here is: "C'mon, really?"
      Is it any harder to drive than a rear-wheel drive car? Or is it just different enough from a front-wheel driver to cause confusion?
      Also: if the R + Haldex upgrade = a more neutral handling ride, has anyone added a rear sway to the equation yet?
      Looking forward to more reading!

    2. Member rabbitgtibbar's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 29th, 2002
      Location
      Merlin
      Posts
      17,689
      Vehicles
      uR32T, 2015 A3 P+, 2003 Jetta GLS 1.8T Wagon
      04-01-2005 01:48 PM #2
      The big difference is what can best be described as active engagement vs. passive engagement. The stock unit is passive, that is, when the fronts slip the rears get torque. The HPP is active, that is, when it feels the fronts *might* slip it engages.
      Yes, I know I'm a jerk. That doesn't make me wrong, though.

    3. Member Nebby's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2nd, 2003
      Location
      Los Angeles, CA
      Posts
      12,260
      04-01-2005 01:51 PM #3
      Nice car in that European Car article eh?
      I don't consider myself an advanced or super-skilled driver, but I think that the HPP upgrade is worth it for getting rid of torque-steer alone.
      It does what it does faster because it takes into consideration other factors and can "predict" when you'll need more rear wheel bias.
      FASTIVUS - sponsored by VW USA and APR! June 13th @ Auto Club Speedway - Fontana, CA

    4. Member rabbitgtibbar's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 29th, 2002
      Location
      Merlin
      Posts
      17,689
      Vehicles
      uR32T, 2015 A3 P+, 2003 Jetta GLS 1.8T Wagon
      04-01-2005 01:52 PM #4
      You got torque steer?
      Yes, I know I'm a jerk. That doesn't make me wrong, though.

    5. Member Nebby's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2nd, 2003
      Location
      Los Angeles, CA
      Posts
      12,260
      04-01-2005 01:53 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by rabbitgtibbar »
      You got torque steer?

      There is definitely torque-steer in the R32 on hard acceleration, much less pronounced than a FWD GTI, but it's there. Completely gone with the HPP upgrade. Many people have commented similarly.
      FASTIVUS - sponsored by VW USA and APR! June 13th @ Auto Club Speedway - Fontana, CA

    6. Member JOJOLYNCH's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 23rd, 2004
      Posts
      668
      Vehicles
      2014 Candy White Jetta GLI Audobahn
      04-01-2005 01:59 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by rabbitgtibbar »
      You got torque steer?
      If I punch it in mine I get a little bit of torque steer.

    7. Member rabbitgtibbar's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 29th, 2002
      Location
      Merlin
      Posts
      17,689
      Vehicles
      uR32T, 2015 A3 P+, 2003 Jetta GLS 1.8T Wagon
      04-01-2005 02:01 PM #7
      Hmm. I drive mine pretty hard, both now and before I got the HPP, and I never noticed it.
      Yes, I know I'm a jerk. That doesn't make me wrong, though.

    8. 04-01-2005 02:01 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by VAsteve »
      Like many of you, I have read and re-read the article in the current European Car about the Haldex upgrade. I have read and re-read all the postings from Rich at EIP and from Ian (Daemon42), but still I wonder...
      It seems to me that having the rear wheels get torque faster would also be a tremendous advantage in the snow and slippery conditions, not just the autocross track where it was tested, no? (personally I got the R for foul weather traction more than its track abilities)
      I have a basic understanding of how the Haldex works, but I don't get how with the upgraded software it works faster; does it just "think" its slipping when the same amount of torque wouldn't have upset the original software?
      I think this is a great marketing idea too - the reviews here on the 'tex and in European Car both say "its for advanced drivers only" and "only expereinced and skilled drivers will notice the difference" and other similar disqualifiers - well what R owner do you know wouldn't say they are an "advanced" driver? I know I think I'm pretty good, and I'm sure you do to, right?
      So the question here is: "C'mon, really?"
      Is it any harder to drive than a rear-wheel drive car? Or is it just different enough from a front-wheel driver to cause confusion?
      Also: if the R + Haldex upgrade = a more neutral handling ride, has anyone added a rear sway to the equation yet?
      Looking forward to more reading!

      1. The Haldex PP doesn't need to "think" about engaging particularly because the fronts are slipping. The Haldex upgrade works/engages in exactly the same manner as the stock unit, except more aggressively... think torque-biased. The new software can anticipate how much power to transfer to the rear before there's any power delivered - it does this by monitoring the throttle position.
      2. On to the "experienced/advanced" driver noticeablilty... Think stock R32, no HPP or RSB - remember how hard it was to bring out the rear end? Add the RSB + HPP = much more lively (really sweet). Basically, if you push yourself AND the car, you'll definitely notice.
      3. I had the RSB first - thought that was the greatest mod ever... then I added H&R coilovers which superceeded my previous opinion... and finally came the HPP Now I'm in heaven... well make that cloud 9 until I achieve FI

    9. 04-01-2005 02:08 PM #9
      Quote, originally posted by rabbitgtibbar »
      Hmm. I drive mine pretty hard, both now and before I got the HPP, and I never noticed it.

      Before the HPP, I experieced torque-steer on those really hard starts... you know... the shift changes at 6800rpm that chirp the tires?
      Now it's gone with the HPP And I can pull out the rear On-Demand [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    10. Member
      Join Date
      Oct 28th, 2004
      Location
      Wstchstr Cnty, NY
      Posts
      12,561
      Vehicles
      2012 Golf R DBM
      04-01-2005 02:18 PM #10
      Quote, originally posted by nebuchadnezzar »
      ........I don't consider myself an advanced or super-skilled driver, .....

      Don't sell yourself short, Eugene. Most, if not all of the people that post in this forum are at the very least 'above-average' drivers, and many here fall into more advanced categories. We are all attuned to our vehicles, and acutely aware of our surroundings. And even though I've been known to bitch about their inexperience, some of the younger members may not have well-defined skills yet, but their hearts are in the right place.
      I think this upgrade would make a noticable difference for at least 98% of the people that post here. I just wish it was more affordable.
      --Chuck--

    11. Member JOJOLYNCH's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 23rd, 2004
      Posts
      668
      Vehicles
      2014 Candy White Jetta GLI Audobahn
      04-01-2005 02:19 PM #11
      It's very minor. Maybe mine's just faster than yours jeremy.

    12. Member
      Join Date
      Oct 28th, 2004
      Location
      Wstchstr Cnty, NY
      Posts
      12,561
      Vehicles
      2012 Golf R DBM
      04-01-2005 02:21 PM #12
      Quote, originally posted by JOJOLYNCH »
      It's very minor. Maybe mine's just faster than yours jeremy.

      Maybe it's just your tire pressure?
      --Chuck--

    13. Member JOJOLYNCH's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 23rd, 2004
      Posts
      668
      Vehicles
      2014 Candy White Jetta GLI Audobahn
      04-01-2005 02:24 PM #13
      I'm pretty sure it's just all the sick hp I'm putting down!! Lol

    14. Member dogmavskarma's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 17th, 2004
      Location
      shady tree, florida
      Posts
      2,853
      Vehicles
      feet
      04-01-2005 03:03 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by speedbump2 »
      ...And even though I've been known to bitch about their inexperience, some of the younger members may not have well-defined skills yet, but their hearts are in the right place.
      --Chuck--

      I now have a 'spidey-sense' for when someone is about to enter my R's danger area.
      i think that it has to do with owning an expensive and aggressive car. i worry about it too much.
      but in my 03 jetta, i got hit twice.

    15. Member rabbitgtibbar's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 29th, 2002
      Location
      Merlin
      Posts
      17,689
      Vehicles
      uR32T, 2015 A3 P+, 2003 Jetta GLS 1.8T Wagon
      04-01-2005 03:05 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by JOJOLYNCH »
      It's very minor. Maybe mine's just faster than yours jeremy.

      Yes, I know I'm a jerk. That doesn't make me wrong, though.

    16. Member Nebby's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2nd, 2003
      Location
      Los Angeles, CA
      Posts
      12,260
      04-01-2005 03:22 PM #16
      But then again guys, I did add the latest Jay-Mod, the billet power steering fluid cap, that may be the reason I feel no torque-steer as well.

      FASTIVUS - sponsored by VW USA and APR! June 13th @ Auto Club Speedway - Fontana, CA

    17. 04-01-2005 03:33 PM #17
      Riddle me this....Does it make the car handle better in snow and low traction conditions? Sometimes I wish there was a fulltime AWD setting. Seems like by the time haldex is sending power I am looking at the ditch. Does anyone know how to make the AWD work full time via a switch??? I don't know what qualifies as an advanced driver, but I have only been 1/2 way in the ditch 1 time in hard pack snow conditions. Maybe some more aggressive tires are needed?



      Modified by Bl@ckMagic at 2:40 PM 4-1-2005

    18. Member JOJOLYNCH's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 23rd, 2004
      Posts
      668
      Vehicles
      2014 Candy White Jetta GLI Audobahn
      04-01-2005 03:44 PM #18
      On a serious note, this is something I'm considering doing. I don't track my car, not saying I won't I just haven't, is it still worth it? I assume it is. The concept of what it does appeals to me, but sometimes the real world application doesn't meet the conceptual application. This isn't the case is it? Jeremy? Neb?

    19. 04-01-2005 03:58 PM #19
      I'm often in the minority, but...
      I find the HPP great for everyday normal driving. I am no expert, but it achieves 'weight transfer' and on throttle attitude instantly, giving what I feel is a more balanced attitude under most conditions. I do a lot of city/suburban driving and it seems the HPP kicks in real quick with light throttle making the car feel better in everyday driving conditions. To some extent, it makes it feel more like RWD, although I've never felt torque steer on my R. Also, do not have an a/m RSB(still on order).


      Modified by r32senior at 12:59 PM 4-1-2005

    20. 04-01-2005 04:08 PM #20
      I'm starting to want this.
      Question though, sometimes I'm really out there (will not discuss because I don't want to get this locked), is this going to put me in the ditch?
      And intested in bad weather, it would seem like more rear faster would be better, anyone have the chance to use it in snow yet.

    21. Member JOJOLYNCH's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 23rd, 2004
      Posts
      668
      Vehicles
      2014 Candy White Jetta GLI Audobahn
      04-01-2005 04:21 PM #21
      Thanks for the reply. I think I'm definately gonna do it!

    22. Member rabbitgtibbar's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 29th, 2002
      Location
      Merlin
      Posts
      17,689
      Vehicles
      uR32T, 2015 A3 P+, 2003 Jetta GLS 1.8T Wagon
      04-01-2005 06:33 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by redbomber1.8t »
      And intested in bad weather, it would seem like more rear faster would be better, anyone have the chance to use it in snow yet.

      The day I got this installed, I drove to EIP in a raging snow storm, there was already 4 inches down and about an two inches an hour coming down. The R was surefooted driving up, but even more so driving back. It was also much easier to get the ass out when I wanted it to.
      In the dry, it is less easy to tell that it's there, but still...you can tell. Cornering has a bit less push, but just a bit, and launches are made with less "excitement" but, at the same time, more excitement.
      Yes, I know I'm a jerk. That doesn't make me wrong, though.

    23. Member graeme86's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 27th, 2003
      Location
      Brisbane Qld
      Posts
      5,048
      Vehicles
      2004 DBP R32; 1971 Superbug
      04-01-2005 06:38 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by r32senior »
      I find the HPP great for everyday normal driving. I am no expert, but it achieves 'weight transfer' and on throttle attitude instantly, giving what I feel is a more balanced attitude under most conditions. I do a lot of city/suburban driving and it seems the HPP kicks in real quick with light throttle making the car feel better in everyday driving conditions.

      I'm with r32senior on this. Car just felt more planted on the road as soon as I drove mine out of the shop (instantly noticeable).
      And the neutral cornering grip at higher speed......
      PM if you are looking for: Euro Headlight switches; RHD folding Stubbies.
      OEM+ freaks click here: Graeme's Webspace - Latest Updates: TPMS; More cluster programming goodies; Fuel & Brake Line Protection; Audi Rear Wiper; Passenger Footlight Mounting Bracket.

    24. 04-01-2005 07:27 PM #24
      Im not gonna say im an advanced driver at all...ill let you all find out on a 1 on 1 basis.....
      Only time ive been to a track is Waterfest last year to drag my A4. I dont do autocross or go sliding around on public roads like Gabe, that memory still gives me goosebumps...
      For me
      1. Can you smoke all four tires with this upgrade?
      2. Will it make me a better street racer?
      Anyone know if its possible to develop a system like the STi?

    25. Member rabbitgtibbar's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 29th, 2002
      Location
      Merlin
      Posts
      17,689
      Vehicles
      uR32T, 2015 A3 P+, 2003 Jetta GLS 1.8T Wagon
      04-01-2005 07:30 PM #25
      Quote, originally posted by factoryfast »
      For me
      1. Can you smoke all four tires with this upgrade?
      2. Will it make me a better street racer?
      Anyone know if its possible to develop a system like the STi?

      If you have enough power to smoke all for before the HPP, you can after. If you don't, then no.
      It would probably decrease your 60' times.
      No, it's not possible.
      Yes, I know I'm a jerk. That doesn't make me wrong, though.

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •