Red Sox Only Thread --

[Egilbe]

The local sports talk radio station counted up the number of managment blunders by Bobby V this year already compared to Tito all last season. Bobby V has already beat Tito. He's not a manager. He's been fired by teams in two different countries. The head office of the Sox let their best players from last year get away, and kept the problem children. The Sox remind me of the NY Jets right now. Rudderless, leaderless and the inmates are running the asylum.

[GTiTOM]

TThe head office of the Sox let their best players from last year get away, and kept the problem children.

Who did they lose besides Papelbon?

I agree they shouldn't have let him go so easily, but I can't really picture the Sox giving a 4 year $50M contract to any closer --- it's just never been the philosophy of this ownership/management group.

And what should they have done? Traded Beckett and Lester for 50 cents on the dollar?

[GeoffD]

The Sox remind me of the NY Jets right now.

At least the Jets were a .500 team

[GeoffD]

The Sox need a couple hungry guys to light a fire under the team and an infusion of youth. They just seem to be fat and happy at the moment. Its really too bad you could'nt cut players like the NFL that would be a wake up call

This is the "25 players, 25 limos" Red Sox I remember from the underachieving days. The difference is that the sports writers didn't cover it that way so the fans buying tickets and watching games on TV were unaware of the dysfunction.

I violated my boycott of Red Sox games briefly at the bar on Saturday though the volume was off. When I walked in, it was 9-8 Red Sox and everybody was talking about the blown 9-0 lead.

The Red Sox met my expectations. The bullpen threw batting practice and the Yankees have always feasted on bad pitching. Josh Beckett is signed through 2014. John Lackey is signed through 2014. Carl Crawford is signed through 2017. As less eyeballs tune in to NESN, their payroll can't be sustained. I'm wondering which 2012 game will end their home sellout streak. The Tuesday May 15th 4pm game against the Mariners is my guess if the weather is at all iffy.

[ed rooney]

The local sports talk radio station counted up the number of managment blunders by Bobby V this year already compared to Tito all last season. Bobby V has already beat Tito. He's not a manager. He's been fired by teams in two different countries. The head office of the Sox let their best players from last year get away, and kept the problem children. The Sox remind me of the NY Jets right now. Rudderless, leaderless and the inmates are running the asylum.

This is total BS Tito lost the team about 2 years ago, Tito played the percentages and sat back and really did'nt do much and the model worked. But once they under acheived and started walking all over Tito the ship had sailed. Had Tito managed to scratch out a couple more victories along the way last year they could have made the playoff despite the horrid september.

These guys need to be called out as I said before when they got bombed by the Tigers , Yankees , Rangers Bobby V can't make the staff stop throwing meatballs. In the wins his game management was'nt bad.

The problem with Boston is the media especially radio does nothing but drive controversy that generates rating so who gives a rats ass what they have to say

[Sporin]

The Sox need a couple hungry guys to light a fire under the team and an infusion of youth.

In the past, that was Pedy, youk and Ellsbury. Not sure who it will be this time.

[Cooper]

This is the "25 players, 25 limos" Red Sox I remember from the underachieving days.

That made me think of Johnny Bench.

He and other players were at the Bank of America Championship, a champions tour golf tournamnet, several years ago. The players were at a golf event at another course and one player hopped into the limo with Bench to get a ride back to the course where the tournament was. There was an autograph session late afternoon.

Bench's contract for his appearance said tht he received a limo for himself. So, Bench said that he was ill and skipped the autograph session to protest that someone rode with him.

I mentioned that to someone else, and he said that Bench is a huge (rearend). This person said that he was at an event with Bench and someone came up and mentioned that he was a friend of someone Bench dated years ago. Bench thought for a second, then said in front of everyone, including kids, "Oh yeah, I remember her. She was great in the sack." Might have even been cruder than that.

[GTiTOM]

In the past, that was Pedy, youk and Ellsbury. Not sure who it will be this time.

I kind of like the idea of trading Youk for some pitching (I love Youk, but it's approaching "sell high" time on his career -- hasn't played more than 120 games in 3 years and hasn't played 140 since 2008 and his offense stats have been in decline), bringing up Middlebrooks (who is absolutely destroying AAA pitching), moving Aviles to right field and bringing up Iglesias to play SS.

That would add some youth, shake things up, give a new look to the team, and get the top tier prospects a chance. If Iglesias isn't working out after 6 weeks, you put him back at SS when Crawford and/or Ellsbury comes back.

Also interesting in Pawtucket: Aaron Cook is doing quite well. 3-0, 1.33 ERA, .219 BAA. The most interesting part is that he has opt-outs on May 1 and a June 1. If he's not in the big leagues within a week, he can be asked out of his contract --- and there's no way another team doesn't snatch him up. If for some reason he decides to not opt-out, he could do it again in a month. Gotta figure that he's going to be called up as the 5th starter with Bard staying to lock-down the bullpen until Bailey is back, right?

Andrew Miller is another interesting one down there --- 11Ks in 5 1/3 innings. But also 9 walks. Threw a perfect inning last night.

Dice K (remember him?) finally pitched. Three runs in 4 innings, but apparently his change up was 'nasty' and he was hitting as high as 94. All that matters though is how he feels in the next few days.

Article where I got everything (and more) for this post: http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/bos...rospect-label/

[Sporin]

I think you are right, this team needs an injection of youth and Middlebrooks should get his shot sooner rather then later.

[Cooper]

As a Mets-Jets fan, I like how they are used as the role model for crappy franchises. I'm not disagreeing.

[g60rabbit]

I kind of like the idea of trading Youk for some pitching (I love Youk, but it's approaching "sell high" time on his career --]

Youk has little to no value for the reasons you listed. You cant sell high, you would be selling for pennies on the dollar.

He makes 12 mill this year, club option for 13 mill next year or 1 mill buyout. So at minimum he gets 13 mill.

The Sox traded Scutaro to save money. They arent eating his 12 mill and no other team is taking that on unless you give up a stud prospect too.

He is batting 170 and is day to day with a quad injury. Guys toast.

[GTiTOM]

Youk has little to no value for the reasons you listed. You cant sell high, you would be selling for pennies on the dollar.

He makes 12 mill this year, club option for 13 mill next year or 1 mill buyout. So at minimum he gets 13 mill.

The Sox traded Scutaro to save money. They arent eating his 12 mill and no other team is taking that on unless you give up a stud prospect too.

He is batting 170 and is day to day with a quad injury. Guys toast.

I put "sell high" in quotes because it's relative. Hs value ain't that high, but it's only going to get
lower, so trading now would be "selling high". I don't quite think his value is as low as you think though. He's a gold glover, an all star, has consistently hit near .300, and has averaged 23 hr and 97 RBI per 162 games over his career.

He'd be an upgrade at first base or dh for several teams.

[GeoffD]

I put "sell high" in quotes because it's relative. Hs value ain't that high, but it's only going to get
lower, so trading now would be "selling high". I don't quite think his value is as low as you think though. He's a gold glover, an all star, has consistently hit near .300, and has averaged 23 hr and 97 RBI per 162 games over his career.

He'd be an upgrade at first base or dh for several teams.

He also has a career OBP that makes the moneyball people really happy. My problem with Youk is the tantrum he throws every time he is called out on strikes or has a poor at bat. It's toxic in the dugout. Recall the Manny-Youk thing a few years ago. So far this season, he's been far more into knocking up Tom Brady's sister than playing baseball. At $12 million for a 6 month job, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect his full attention to be on his job.

I figure that now that Youk is married, he'll start focusing on his job and get back to his career numbers. It's a contract year so you know he's motivated to hit .300 and get his usual ridiculous number of walks.

[Sporin]

2 wins in a row! Can we just keep playing the Twins for the rest of the season?

[Cooper]

I the announcers said that the next seven series are agaist teams that had losing records last year. Time to win some games.

[g60rabbit]

I put "sell high" in quotes because it's relative. Hs value ain't that high, but it's only going to get
lower, so trading now would be "selling high". I don't quite think his value is as low as you think though.
He's a gold glover, an all star, has consistently hit near .300, and has averaged 23 hr and 97 RBI per 162 games over his career.He'd be an upgrade at first base or dh for several teams.

Not trying to be a wise as but his career averages are meaningless at this point no?

The most games he has ever played in a season is 145. That was 4 years ago when he was 29.

The last 2 years he has averaged 120 games 18 homers and a .275 average. Is currently hurt and is owed 13 million dollars.

Youre right in that he may be an upgrade for some teams. but how many teams is he an upgrade for that is a contender.

Tigers have 0 use for him.
Yankees 0 use
Sox obviously
Tampa?? He isnt playing the field for Tampa IMO and would the Sox even trade him there?

Texas maybe??

Is a team like Cleveland going to take on Youks salary, because the Sox arent going to eat it.

With his injury history what NL team takes him without the ability to DH him?

Bottom line he is coming off his worst season ever which followed his 2nd worse season ever where he only play about 100 games. He is injured again and is owed 13 mill. Even if you could trade him. What could you get?

[GTiTOM]

Not trying to be a wise as but his career averages are meaningless at this point no?

The Red Sox just traded a decent prospect for a guy hitting .070 this year. The basis of the trade was his past career and the hopes that a "change of scenery" would do good for him. Past performance, career performance, upside, downside.....all things that factor in to a trade.

You're telling me a team can't be convinced that if Youk's decline was due to having to move back to 3b? And that if he played 1b/dh, he could easily play 145 games? I mean, I don't think it's likely that the trade will happen --- unless the Sox are in last place in June and a team like KC or Cleveland is surging and needs a veteran bat. But I think it's crazy to say that no team would want him on their team.

[g60rabbit]

You're telling me a team can't be convinced that if Youk's decline was due to having to move back to 3b? .

No I dont think you can convine any team that moving a player from 1 side of the diamond to the other cost him 20-40 games a year.

Again he has not played in 140 games in 4 years, and he is worse now then in the previous 2.

KC and the Indians are likely to not be contenders for the Ring.

By mid season Youk will be owed about 7 mill. What young player on teams like that Roster will they give up for a rental on Youk who probably wont even be healthy.

A team in contention probably wont give up anything major league ready for him.

Is it possible they get a decent B "grade" prospect sure. But likely not someone who will help you in 2012.

And a team out of contention wont take/need him.

Ofcourse its possible but the suiters will be VERY limited, thuis getting next to nothing in return [unless u give a very good prospect up in addition to Youk]


Edit to add.

Yes the Sox just traded a prospect to get a guy who hits .070. Something they would have no interest in doing if the Cubs didnt eat just about all of his salary. Something the Sox probably arfent willing to do.

[GTiTOM]

Again he has not played in 140 games in 4 years, and he is worse now then in the previous 2.

I know. This is the exact reason I said they should look into trading him. He's past his peak and he's only going to decline.

Ya, they're not going to get a top tier prospect or an elite pitcher and they might have to eat salary. But someone out there would be happy to have Youk on their roster in some capacity. As Geoff said above, he's the classic 'moneyball' OBP type that lots of GMs love. That's all I'm saying.

With the way Middlebrooks is hitting right now, I think they should try to move him for even a middle reliever. And they can afford to eat salary --- it's just a matter of whether or not they want to.

[GeoffD]

A team in contention probably wont give up anything major league ready for him.

A team in contention who has a 1st baseman or 3rd baseman injured for the year would be very interested in Youk if he's healthy. The moneyball crowd value his OPS.

[6603]

A team in contention who has a 1st baseman or 3rd baseman injured for the year would be very interested in Youk if he's healthy. The moneyball crowd value his OPS.

In order for the money ball ball crowd to get Youk, Boston would have to eat up most of his contract. Something they won't do.

[ed rooney]

I heard on the radio Crawford is going to James Andrews elbow specialist to get his sore elbow checked. He better not need Tommy John surgeury

[GTiTOM]

In order for the money ball ball crowd to get Youk, Boston would have to eat up most of his contract. Something they won't do.

They're more than likely not trading Youk, so it's probably moot, but I think it's odd that you are so adamant that the Sox wouldn't be willing to eat money on the appropriate deal.

There's a huge difference between saying "Our max payroll is $180M and we're not going over" and not being willing to eat contract money. Middlebrooks basically wouldn't cost them any more to bring up. As long as they weren't trading Youk for an expensive pitcher, it's really not any increase in budget for the year. It's money they've already spent ---- as long as they didn't have to spend more, then what's the problem?

In other words, let's say it's July and they're out of it and Morneau gets injured and is out for the year but the Twins are 3 games out of first and they come knocking. They'll send over a nice prospect if the Sox send Youk and pay $5m of the $7m left on his salary. Wouldn't that allow Middlebrooks to come up and play full time while actually saving the Sox about $1.75M?

[Egilbe]

The Red Sox just traded a decent prospect for a guy hitting .070 this year. The basis of the trade was his past career and the hopes that a "change of scenery" would do good for him. Past performance, career performance, upside, downside.....all things that factor in to a trade.

You're telling me a team can't be convinced that if Youk's decline was due to having to move back to 3b? And that if he played 1b/dh, he could easily play 145 games? I mean, I don't think it's likely that the trade will happen --- unless the Sox are in last place in June and a team like KC or Cleveland is surging and needs a veteran bat. But I think it's crazy to say that no team would want him on their team.

that still boggles my mind. Because, you know, the Sox are just buried in good bullpen material.

[GTiTOM]

that still boggles my mind. Because, you know, the Sox are just buried in good bullpen material.

I didn't get it either. Especially since the offense was fine and Byrd can't hit. Even with Byrd playing very well since he came over, I still don't see how they couldn't have survived for 6 weeks with roster juggling in the OF. Something like Ross in center, Aviles in left, Sweeney in right and Punto at SS doesn't seem much worse than Byrd/Ross/Sweeney -- especially when the former would mean more bullpen depth, which is their biggest need.

Unless, of course, they were suspicious that something more serious was wrong with Crawford and that he might be out for much longer than anticipated.

[ed rooney]

I don't consider Bowden a very good arm , he has tried in the past to pitch out of the pen and he's not very good. Weird delivery, fastball you can hang close on. Big deal

[GTiTOM]

I don't consider Bowden a very good arm , he has tried in the past to pitch out of the pen and he's not very good. Weird delivery, fastball you can hang close on. Big deal

He's nothing special, but I'd rather see him than Justin Thomas or Padilla or Morales or whoever else the Sox trot out there with an ERA nearing double digits.

Plus, it always raises eyebrows to me when the guys who drafted/developed him (hoyer/epstein) are willing to trade someone and eat millions in salary to get him back --- and immediately plugged him into their bullpen. When the Sox designated him for assignment, there was talk of all sorts of teams being interested in picking him up.

I'm not trying to overvalue him here as some sort of savior. He's not the top tier prospect he once was. But he's a major league capable reliever and the Red Sox have the WORST bullpen in baseball.

[Cooper]

"And yet manager Bobby Valentine posted a lineup in the clubhouse Wednesday thinking righthanded Twins starter Liam Hendriks was lefthanded. He checked his cell phone and got it wrong."

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...tml?xid=cnnbin

[Sporin]

a win tonight puts us at .500.

[Egilbe]

"And yet manager Bobby Valentine posted a lineup in the clubhouse Wednesday thinking righthanded Twins starter Liam Hendriks was lefthanded. He checked his cell phone and got it wrong."

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...tml?xid=cnnbin

I hope bobby V is gone soon. There's got to be someone better already on the payroll

[GTiTOM]

SO, what to do with buch? AAA tune-up time? Bullpen? He's easily their worst starter right now. Going to be interesting, especially with millers deadline tomorrow.

[ed rooney]

I think if you send him down he might lose confidence, I think his mechanics are suspect at this point due to the back injury. Velocity is down and his control is off. Gammons brought up an interesting point last night. That when some guys use the cut fastball too much it effects fastball velocity.

Gammons said 2 years ago Buch never threw the cutter and his fastball was 95+ at times now its like 92-93 at best.

Hey at least the strung some wins together and they are not that far off from the leaders in terms of games back.

Middlebrooks keeps on raking 9hrs and like 27 rbi at AAA. He is banging on the door loudly

[Sporin]

They HAVE to bring Middlebrooks soon... right? Seems crazy not to. Youk was on a tear there out west though but the kid is too good to leave in Pawtucket much longer.

[ed rooney]

Yeah i would think so. hey if Lars Anderson can play LF why not Middlebrooks. It would keep Youk in the lineup and if he starts producing great trade value increases... Lets face it Crawford might not even be back this year or be effective if he comes back.

Also it might be in the Sox favor to DL Youk with his back issues at some point get him healthy. If he plays the season banged up that will hurt his value as well

[ed rooney]

Middlebrooks coming up tonight Youk might be going to the DL...Cook will be put on the MLB roster likely to pitch out of the pen