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    Thread: Red Sox Only Thread --

    1. Member nastybags's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 01:53 PM #17851
      Quote, originally posted by beng »

      How easily Sox fans have forgotten the 33 straight scoreless innings the Yankees put up against them two weeks ago. It was pitching that won that series... When the Yankees pitchers are on their game, they are as good as any other 1-4 in the league.

      thank you


    2. Senior Member beng's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 02:18 PM #17852
      Quote, originally posted by ed rooney »
      If I were to bet on the WS winner right now I would take the Yankees

      That is so sig worthy! Well said Ed!!

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    3. Member nastybags's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 02:24 PM #17853
      thats not that far of a stretch though...

      best record in baseball,an explosive offense and great starting pitching

      a closer that can shut it down 99.9% of the time

      who wouldnt pick NY?


    4. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 02:24 PM #17854
      Quote, originally posted by Methalius »

      Jeez.... What do the Sox do during the offseason with Ortiz?

      I think what they have to do is hope that most his problems at the beginning of the year have been because of the lingering wrist injury ---- that it's an 18 month thing to be back to 100% --- and that the recent issue has been mental/stress. And hope he comes back to a .270/25/90 dh and play him 80% of the time.

      Or, just eat the contract and release him. The thing about baseball is that you pay for past performance and hope it at least evens out: the Sox got a heck of a lot of production from him when he was making a couple mil a year and this contract was a reward for that.

      As for the Yankees vs. Red Sox pitching debate, check out quality starts (% of total starts in parentheses), keeping in mind that Grienke leads the league with 20. QS is 6+ innings with 3 or less runs

      Red Sox
      Beckett 17 (.74)
      Lester 16 (.67)
      Wakefield 11 (.65)
      Penny 11 (.65)
      Buchholz 2 (.33 - but he has 2 with 5.2 ip)

      Yankees
      Sabathia 13 (.52)
      Burnett 16 (.70)
      Joba 11 (.48)
      Pettite 13 (.54)

      Sox top starters are throwing a QS about 2/3 of the time. Yankees are about 1/2 the time, besides Burnett (who's shown that he can turn in some serious clunkers, especially against the red sox).

      Other interesting note: Beckett has had only 3 non-quality starts since April, an 83% QS% --- 4-2, 8ip loss to Texas, 6-5 W against baltimore (7 ip), and 11-6 loss to philly (6 innings). He hasn't had an early exit blow up game since April.


    5. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 02:38 PM #17855
      Quote, originally posted by nastybags »

      thank you

      I didn't forget this. It's true that the Sox lineup was in shambles, but the problem is that it STILL is.

      You're not going to find many people who will rationally argue that at this point in the season, the Red Sox have a better team than the Yankees. Overall, the Yankees are better. They're better on paper, they're playing better, and they're winning. The Sox might be getting good pitching and not scoring runs, but that means they're still losing.

      If they get to the playoffs, and have a healthy team, anything can happen. I thought the Red Sox were far and away the better team in 03 and that the Yankees were better in 04 --- and you how those turned out.

      Sadly though, I like the Red Sox chances of beating the Yankees in a 7 game playoff better than I do the chances of the Red Sox even making the playoffs in the first place. It's going to be a battle the rest of the way --- the Sox are fielding a minor league team mixed with washed up veterans and stars in the middle who aren't doing isht. Good pitching can only support that for so long.


    6. 08-17-2009 02:39 PM #17856
      Quote, originally posted by ed rooney »

      If I were to bet on the WS winner right now I would take the Yankees, so I do give them credit..but its not because the pitching is GREAT

      Who the hell said Yankee pitching is great?!?


    7. Member nastybags's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 02:42 PM #17857
      who has a better 1-5 than the yankees do?

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      08-17-2009 03:05 PM #17858
      Quote, originally posted by GTiTOM »

      If they get to the playoffs, and have a healthy team, anything can happen. I thought the Red Sox were far and away the better team in 03 and that the Yankees were better in 04 --- and you how those turned out.

      i actually thought the opposite of this for these two years. the Soxs just had too many FA signings on their 04 team to lose

    9. Member Methalius's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 03:08 PM #17859
      Quote, originally posted by rlsib16 »

      i actually thought the opposite of this for these two years. the Soxs just had too many FA signings on their 04 team to lose

      Same here.

      Ortiz in full swing, Schilling and Martinez in '04.


    10. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 03:21 PM #17860
      Quote, originally posted by Methalius »

      Same here.

      Ortiz in full swing, Schilling and Martinez in '04.

      Gotta remember mueller winning the batting title in 03, and the team breaking 10 batting records, including most xbh, most total bases, and highest slugging percentage. They were close to breaking the runs, hits, team avg, hrs, etc. http://www.redsoxdiehard.com/stats/record.html

      The 04 Yankees had all-stars at every position except 2nd base and CF. The Sox did go get Schilling, but the Yankees also got Arod.

      Either way, they were both pretty good both years But I think the Sox would have destroyed the Marlins in the WS.


      Modified by GTiTOM at 3:26 PM 8-17-2009


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      08-17-2009 03:23 PM #17861
      Quote, originally posted by -YZ- »

      Who the hell said Yankee pitching is great?!?

      Nastybags or 95 whatever said the yankees pitching was great


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      08-17-2009 03:25 PM #17862
      Quote, originally posted by nastybags »
      yanks offense is second to none

      Actually it is second to one. Have a look at the Angels


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      08-17-2009 03:36 PM #17863
      Quote, originally posted by ed rooney »

      Nastybags or 95 whatever said the yankees pitching was great

      Quit swinging from my nuts. I haven't posted anything like that. The Yankees pitching is above average right now. Not great. I would however, go so far as to say their bullpen is great right now.

      THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

    14. Member nastybags's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 03:44 PM #17864
      well i for one think their starting pitching is very good..

      much better than above average..i dont remember saying great either..but i am sure at one point today i might have lol

      edit: ok i did call their pitching great haha but whatever they have a 7.5 game lead

      i couldnt be happier with thte season thus far

      i have complete confidence in their pitching staff


      Modified by nastybags at 8:46 PM 8-17-2009


    15. Senior Member beng's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 03:48 PM #17865
      Quote, originally posted by GTiTOM »
      Red Sox
      Beckett 17 (.74)
      Lester 16 (.67)
      Wakefield 11 (.65)
      Penny 11 (.65)
      Buchholz 2 (.33 - but he has 2 with 5.2 ip)

      Yankees
      Sabathia 13 (.52)
      Burnett 16 (.70)
      Joba 11 (.48)
      Pettite 13 (.54)


      You know as well as I do that baseball is ebbs and flows. I think the far more telling stat would be the # of QS from each team since the All Star Break.

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    16. Member Methalius's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 03:49 PM #17866
      Quote, originally posted by GTiTOM »
      Gotta remember mueller winning the batting title in 03, and the team breaking 10 batting records, including most xbh, most total bases, and highest slugging percentage. They were close to breaking the runs, hits, team avg, hrs, etc. http://www.redsoxdiehard.com/stats/record.html

      I agree the '03 Team could mash but the '04 Team wasn't a poor offensive team either.

      I thought by adding Schilling Boston had the best 1-2 in baseball and to go with their obscene offense they had the best shot at winning the World Series....


    17. Geriatric Member GS Audio's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:09 PM #17867
      Quote, originally posted by GTiTOM »

      Gotta remember mueller winning the batting title in 03, and the team breaking 10 batting records, including most xbh, most total bases, and highest slugging percentage. They were close to breaking the runs, hits, team avg, hrs, etc. http://www.redsoxdiehard.com/stats/record.html

      Juice sure helps an entire team out-perform the competition.


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    18. Geriatric Member GS Audio's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:11 PM #17868
      Since Schilling’s name has been tossed around a bit now……..can we accurately assume (and agree) he was doing “something” to keep up his performance levels?

      No way was he clean his entire career……


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      08-17-2009 04:15 PM #17869
      Lets face it the 03 and 04 teams also likely had some chemical advantage over the 09 team as well.

      04
      Damon
      OCab
      Papi
      Manny
      Millar
      Nixon
      Mueller
      Tek
      Bellhorn

      09 On the nat
      Ellsbury
      Pedroia
      Papi
      Youk
      Bay
      Drew
      Lowell
      Tek
      SS and Martinez has to play musical chairs to get his ABs

      Theo better find a Big bat for next year as well as sign Bay if he does'nt the line up just gets worse


    20. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:28 PM #17870
      Quote, originally posted by beng »

      You know as well as I do that baseball is ebbs and flows. I think the far more telling stat would be the # of QS from each team since the All Star Break.

      Since July 1:

      Red Sox
      Beckett 6 (.75)
      Lester 7 (.88)
      Wakefield 1 (.50)
      Penny 3 (.38) --- as i've said several times, total 2nd half player. He should lose his spot to Tazawa.
      Buchholz 2 (.33 - but he has 2 with 5.2 ip)

      Yankees
      Sabathia 5 (.56)
      Burnett 7 (.88)
      Joba 3 (.38)
      Pettite 6 (.67)

      Looks pretty similar. Penny and Joba dropped off, Burnett and Lester got stronger, pettitte and buchholz are about the same (if they leave in clay for the extra 1/3 of an inning in 2 of those starts, he's at .67). All but 1 of Lester's and Burnett's starts since July 1 have been QS. Sox still have the Dice-K wild card, which could be a good thing or a bad thing, and need wake back asap.

      Sabathia gets all this Cy Young talk, but if you look at his stats game to game, he's been pretty inconsistent. He's give up 5+ runs in 4 games since 7/1.


      Modified by GTiTOM at 4:29 PM 8-17-2009


    21. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:30 PM #17871
      Quote, originally posted by GS Audio »

      Juice sure helps an entire team out-perform the competition.

      Like I said, they needed it to be able to keep up with the Juicing Yankees pitching staff


      Quote, originally posted by GS Audio »
      Since Schilling’s name has been tossed around a bit now……..can we accurately assume (and agree) he was doing “something” to keep up his performance levels?

      No way was he clean his entire career……

      I would bet money that he was clean. He has the build of a traditional power pitcher, and evolved his pitching style towards the end of his career. Unlike guys like Sosa who started hitting HRs out of no where, or like Clemens who were resurrected, schilling had a normal progression, peaked at the expected times (mid 30s), and then had to adjust his style in the end.

      You never know though. Wouldn't shock me if he was juicing in Philly and 'Zona.


      Modified by GTiTOM at 4:35 PM 8-17-2009


    22. Member nastybags's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:32 PM #17872
      both teams had juicers...

      they cancel each other out imo

      it still pisses me off though that sox fans call Ortiz the best clutch hitter in mlb history


    23. Geriatric Member GS Audio's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:32 PM #17873
      Quote, originally posted by GTiTOM »

      Like I said, they needed it to be able to keep up with the Juicing Yankees pitching staff

      Not disagreeing…….just making sure the facts are stated that juice was not just a Yankee thing. Only difference, the juice helped the Sox win 2 WS while the Yanks didn’t do enough of it to win one.


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    24. Geriatric Member GS Audio's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:33 PM #17874
      Quote, originally posted by nastybags »
      it still pisses me off though that sox fans call Ortiz the best clutch hitter in mlb history

      That’s a Sox Nation and Twitter fallacy…….


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      08-17-2009 04:37 PM #17875
      i cant wait to boo the hell out of ortiz on friday night

      there will be video again of my adventures in fenway

      if you people think i'm nuts here..you should see me intoxicated at a sox fenway game lol


    26. Geriatric Member GS Audio's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:38 PM #17876

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      08-17-2009 04:39 PM #17877
      Quote, originally posted by nastybags »

      it still pisses me off though that sox fans call Ortiz the best clutch hitter in mlb history

      The thing that's unfair is that they won't release WHAT he tested positive for. There's a legit chance he got a false positive from a perfectly legal supplement that really didn't help him all that much. He also could have been injecting it directly into his biceps.

      But it's like applying for a job and just having to write down that you've been arrested ---- and leaving it up to the employer to guess whether or not it was for murder or having a beer on you when you were 20.

      Ya, his legacy gets tarnished, but should he be penalized in history if it turns he never did take anything banned, never did anything illegal, and never knowingly took any sort of "performance enhancer"?


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      08-17-2009 04:45 PM #17878
      true but come on bro...you know as well as i did he wasnt just taking creatine or the biggest loser brand weight gainer
      with that annoying bitch on the box

    29. Senior Member beng's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:46 PM #17879
      I think of all the premier hitters in the game...MORE of a case could be made for Ortiz being on the sauce then some of the others. He became a DIFFERENT player when he joined the Sox. Like night and day. Like Brady Anderson, but with more longevity. Sorry to say it out loud, but its the truth... so having his name linked to the positive list... doesn't really surprise me all that much... it just supports suspicions.
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    30. Geriatric Member GS Audio's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:47 PM #17880
      I really wanna see Schilling’s name pop up on that list…….would love to see him talk his way out of that one…….

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      08-17-2009 04:47 PM #17881
      Quote, originally posted by GTiTOM »

      I would bet money that he was clean. He has the build of a traditional power pitcher, and evolved his pitching style towards the end of his career. Unlike guys like Sosa who started hitting HRs out of no where, or like Clemens who were resurrected, schilling had a normal progression, peaked at the expected times (mid 30s), and then had to adjust his style in the end.

      You never know though. Wouldn't shock me if he was juicing in Philly and 'Zona
      Modified by GTiTOM at 4:35 PM 8-17-2009


      mid 30's isnt peak talent level time. remember thats when most careers used to start to decline. i dont know if he used or not but he was always a power pitcher that could also spot pitches instead of just blowing it by everyone. but being linked to that 2001 Arizona team cant be good. 57 HR year by Luis Gonzalez, Matt Williams also.

    32. Member nastybags's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:50 PM #17882
      this must have been before that beans and rice diet he was on haha


    33. Geriatric Member GS Audio's Avatar
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      08-17-2009 04:57 PM #17883
      Arias??

      Quote, originally posted by nastybags »
      this must have been before that beans and rice diet he was on haha


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      08-17-2009 05:02 PM #17884
      thats actually his real last name

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      08-17-2009 05:40 PM #17885
      Let me just be clear about my thoughts on Ortiz: I'm not trying to argue that he did NOT do any PEDs. I'm just saying that it sucks that they won't release WHAT he tested for, so we'll never know the extent of it.

      He has passed 15 tests since 2003 though ---- including in 04 and 07 when they won.


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