Red Sox Only Thread --

[GTiTOM]

You mean buy a bunch of lovable losers with long suffering fans, improve the team to fill the seats for every game and then develop and market the crap out the team and the venue?? IMHO, Kraft and Henry have followed a very similar path.

If not for the past 12 months of abject failure, few would be complaining - mainly those guys in their mother's basement called Mikey and Damon every night. It's funny what a couple of championships do to a fan base. Entitlement is not a pretty thing.

[GeoffD]

You mean buy a bunch of lovable losers with long suffering fans, improve the team to fill the seats for every game and then develop and market the crap out the team and the venue?? IMHO, Kraft and Henry have followed a very similar path.

This is crap. Fenway attendance has been up over 2 million since 1986 other than a couple of years when the team sucked. The average attendance for the 10 years before these owners showed up was about 2 1/2 million. The big basic cable NESN contract happened in 2001 before these owners showed up.

Like any city, fans buy tickets when the team is competitive. If the team sucks, there are lots of empty seats and TV ratings suck. There is nothing "special" about the Red Sox other than the fact that the team has been competitive just about every year since 1967. If the current owners field a last place team in 2013, the stands will be empty and nobody will watch on TV. Fenway is the most expensive ticket in baseball and it's not exactly a good value when the team is lousy. The free agent market isn't very good and the Red Sox clubhouse is such a disaster that they're not going to be able to attract what talent is available. We're watching the farm team play at Fenway this September. I don't see any miracles coming.

[Cooper]

Columnist in today's sports section said that he couldn't even give away an extra ticket to the Yankees series.

[-YZ-]

Columnist in today's sports section said that he couldn't even give away an extra ticket to the Yankees series.

Following what Cooper said... as much as a Sox fan I am, I passed up on Yankees SERIES tickets. I usually drive from DC to watch a few games every year. I think as a fan you stand behind your team no matter what, but when the team itself is not in it for the fans, then all we (the fans) can do is wait for them to get their sh*t together before we go spending money on a bunch of chumps that don't want to play and continuously whine about crap. Besides, I've been enjoying the Nationals with my Red Sox money. My 2 cents.

[redsoxreturns]

Gotta admit I'm rooting for the O's to win the east.
Rooting for the Rangers to get back to the WS and win it all though.

Who's everybody else rooting for at this point?

[ed rooney]

I'm rooting for the Sox to lose all remaining games beyond that I don't care...

[GTiTOM]

Gotta admit I'm rooting for the O's to win the east.
Rooting for the Rangers to get back to the WS and win it all though.

Who's everybody else rooting for at this point?

I'd love to see O's vs. Nats. Would be a lot of cool storylines ---- regional battle, up and coming nats, strasburg benched, return of the O's, Dan Duquette to the WS, etc, etc, etc.

[GS Audio]

From the NL, Nats....definite a deserving bunch.

AL.....sorry....gotta stick with the Pinstripes.

But, if they somehow don't make it......O's or A's.......both teams that should not be where they are right now.....playing good ball and staying in it, so should provide good games to watch.

[ed rooney]

What's next a lucky fan will get a regulation AB...stop the insanity just get this damn season over with

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...all#readerComm

[DIAF]

What's next a lucky fan will get a regulation AB...stop the insanity just get this damn season over with

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...all#readerComm

They could be scouting :lol:

[GeoffD]

What's next a lucky fan will get a regulation AB...stop the insanity just get this damn season over with

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...all#readerComm

What was next was the "All-Fenway Team"


I don't see how Tim Wakefield made "first reserves" other than that he'd just retired and they knew he'd show up for the event. He's a .500 pitcher with a 4.41 ERA. 200 wins isn't that big a deal when you have 180 losses and a crap career ERA.


* means they showed up for the event
** means they're planted underground or frozen to be revived later

Starting Lineup
C: Carlton Fisk*
1B: Jimmie Foxx**
2B: Dustin Pedroia*
3B: Wade Boggs
SS: Nomar Garciaparra*
LF: Ted Williams**
CF: Fred Lynn*
RF: Dwight Evans*
RHP: Pedro Martinez*
LHP: Lefty Grove**
Closer: Jonathan Papelbon
DH: David Ortiz*
Manager: Terry Francona

PR: Dave Roberts
PH: Bernie Carbo*

First reserves

C: Jason Varitek*
1B: Mo Vaughn
2B: Bobby Doerr
3B: Mike Lowell
SS: Johnny Pesky**
LF: Carl Yastrzemski*
CF: Dom DiMaggio**
RF: Trot Nixon*
Pitcher: Roger Clemens*
Pitcher: Luis Tiant*
Pitcher: Tim Wakefield*
Pitcher: Dennis Eckersley*
Pitcher: Dick Radatz**
Manager: Joe Cronin**

Second reserves
C: Rich Gedman*
1B: George Scott
2B: Jerry Remy*
3B: Frank Malzone*
SS: Rico Petrocelli*
LF: Jim Rice*
CF: Reggie Smith*
RF: Tony Conigliaro**
Pitcher: Babe Ruth**
Pitcher: Smoky Joe Wood**
Pitcher: Curt Schilling
Pitcher: Bill Lee*
Pitcher: Jim Lonborg*
Manager: Dick Williams **

[beng]

**** Dave Roberts

[GTiTOM]

What was next was the "All-Fenway Team"


I don't see how Tim Wakefield made "first reserves" other than that he'd just retired and they knew he'd show up for the event. He's a .500 pitcher with a 4.41 ERA. 200 wins isn't that big a deal when you have 180 losses and a crap career ERA.

This is most popular list, right?

Because no way a career .260 hitter who played in 800 games (Tony C) or a one hit wonder like Fred Lynn. Even Pedroia over Doerr and Nomar over Pesky are questionable

[Sporin]

The Boston Red Sox today named Jason Varitek Special Assistant to the General Manager. The announcement was made by Executive Vice President/General Manager Ben Cherington.

“Jason was one of the most respected players of his era and will be a key voice as we move forward,” said Cherington. “He will be involved in a number of areas including Major League personnel decisions, evaluations, and mentorship and instruction of young players. We are fortunate to have him in this role.”

interesting

[ed rooney]

Well on one hand it tells you the Sox have not had many good to great pitchers in the history of the team if Wake is near tops on a list. The list also shows that they did something right in the mid to late 70's Rice, Fisk , Dewey, Lynn, Mid 80s, Clemens, Boggs, Gedman, 90s other than Nomar and Vaughnn sucked until early 2000 when they finally built a winning club. A lot of suck seasons and Sh!tty players in between.

As for your gripe with Lynn most baseball people will tell you if he stayed in Boston he would have been a HOF player, swing built for Fenway.

This is on Ownership they had a lot of bums and fools calling the shots....We should count our blessing with current ownership, yeah the may have screwed up lately but its a whole lot better than past ownership by miles....

Starting with Yawkey kicking out Hank Aaron and Willie Mays and Jackie Robinson from a try out with the Sox...Likely one of the greatest what ifs? in all of sports

[GTiTOM]

The 70s nostalgia reminds me of the hemi muscle cars going for millions at auction a few years ago. The people who were kids then are now adults and nostalgia is coming over then.

Also, are the Sox just pretending that Manny Ramirez, possibly the best right handed hitter in the history of the franchise, just wasn't here for 8 years?

[GeoffD]

Time to start rooting for a Red Sox final series sweep.

[Methalius]

This has been the most sickening season as a Red Sox fan I have endured in years. I'm so disgusted by the entire team as a whole. John Henry and company should be ashamed of themselves. This team has no fight and seemingly no pride. Just an embarrassment from top to bottom.

[nastybags]

^^^lol

[ed rooney]

This has been the most sickening season as a Red Sox fan I have endured in years. I'm so disgusted by the entire team as a whole. John Henry and company should be ashamed of themselves. This team has no fight and seemingly no pride. Just an embarrassment from top to bottom.

2003 IMO hurt way worse than this season

While I agree this season has sucked. How can you be that mad at Henry at least he admitted there was a problem and did what he could to fix it.. If we kept Gonzales , Beckett and Crawford we would have limped along for the next 2 years anyway. As much as I thought Gonzales was going to be a star he is a dog personality wise, he is not a winner or a leader.

As a result we get a high draft pick which is protected, the ability to spend money on players who can fit in this market and do a better job evaluating them. A better shot to sign Ellsbury a guy that has a good track record. And eventually blend the minor league talent of ours and the pick ups in the trade.

Aside from all the injuries starting pitching sucked starting mostly with Beckett. Rebuild with pitching and we may be set up for another run. If your going to suck at least do it right and the sox sure as hell did that..

[beng]

What is the Sox payroll looking like in 2013 assuming they dont sign any big names? Just curious... how much money did they shave off with all of these trades?

[Cooper]

I think it's about a Pirates-level payroll now since they amazingly got the Dodgers to swallow just about all the contracts.

Still amazed that they were able to do that.

[beng]

Whats the thought in Boston as far as the offseason goes.... do they plan on buying up a bunch of FAs? What are the MLB FAs that would be worth it an help the Sox?

[Methalius]

I'm mad at Henry that he didn't can Valentine earlier in the season. Having him manage the Sox at all was one of the dumbest moves he's ever signed off on. I was beyond estatic when they dumped Crawford, Beckett and Gonzalez. I just think they should and could have made a manager move before trading Youk. Valentines handling of that whole situation was piss poor at best.

As far as what do the Sox do from here. I believe they have made a commitment to rebuild the farm system. I think the next big move is to trade Ellsbury for more prospects. He is a Boras guy and after the Crawford debacle I don't see the Red Sox signing another speed dependant injury prone OF. As much as I love Ellsbury that is the move that I think they have to do. There is NO way he doesn't want at least as much money as Crawford got and in my opinion you have to be completely insane to give it to him.

I fully support a youth movement and mass shake up in the offseason.

[GeoffD]

Whats the thought in Boston as far as the offseason goes.... do they plan on buying up a bunch of FAs? What are the MLB FAs that would be worth it an help the Sox?

The Sox worst problem is pitching. Lester and Buchholz aren't performing well enough to be front line starters. Doubront is a #4 at best. De La Rosa and Lackey are coming off major surgery and can't be counted on. On the FA market, there are no front line pitchers and the Red Sox would be bidding against all the other large market teams. With the clubhouse in shambles, who would want to come to the Red Sox when they can pitch for a contender? There is nobody in the farm system you can point at as being a potential front line starter. This ensures Red Sox suckdom in 2013.

I think they'll trade Ellsbury for prospects, sign a couple of average FA outfielders and a 1B to short-term contracts, and hope the farm system bails them out. You have to think their TV revenue stream is in the dumper. They can no longer afford a $150+ million payroll. Sellout streak ends. 3 years of rebuilding.

[beng]

The Sox worst problem is pitching. Lester and Buchholz aren't performing well enough to be front line starters. Doubront is a #4 at best. De La Rosa and Lackey are coming off major surgery and can't be counted on. On the FA market, there are no front line pitchers and the Red Sox would be bidding against all the other large market teams. With the clubhouse in shambles, who would want to come to the Red Sox when they can pitch for a contender? There is nobody in the farm system you can point at as being a potential front line starter. This ensures Red Sox suckdom in 2013.

I think they'll trade Ellsbury for prospects, sign a couple of average FA outfielders and a 1B to short-term contracts, and hope the farm system bails them out. You have to think their TV revenue stream is in the dumper. They can no longer afford a $150+ million payroll. Sellout streak ends. 3 years of rebuilding.

Could they *get* front line starter for Ellsbury? The guy is only one season removed from top 3 in MVP voting. He's young... and doesnt make that much money (yet). I'll say it again... I cant believe how fast it all fell apart in Boston. Are they shedding any higher paid underperformers in the offseason (Dice K, etc)?

[ed rooney]

As for the above comments the Sox payroll will be just fine. All this doom and gloom is not going to turn the Sox into a small market team. Ain't going to happen no matter how much you want to believe this dude. You have been talking TV revenue for 3 years give it a rest.

Buccholtz has amazing stuff and aside for a piss poor start of the season coming off injury he did just fine. Throw out the last 4 or 5 starts after the trade with a 4A offense.

Lester needs to get his head out of his ass train hard over the winter and get back to his fast ball and work off that. He has become cutter happy. Lackey may actually come back from TJ and have more zip as most pitchers do. Doudront has very good stuff for a lefty lots of swing and miss in his first full year in the bigs is nothing but promising. His issue was stamina more than anything else.

As for who wants to come to the Sox its a business money is the key motivating factor always is the Sox have huge flexibility...

Beng teams have a lifecycle, in this case it is better to suck then keep the huge payroll and be just good. Sox made bad signings but they had good intentions. The Yankees FA signing with CC paid off big. Take CC away from the Yanks and the are not that much different from the Sox good aging team.

In fact what kind of shape will the Yanks be when those bloated Tex and Arod contracts are in the way past prime years? The Sox have young talent coming up and they went heavy on pitching in the last draft...Hell if the O's can win the Sox will be back before you know it. Another down year or two waiting for players to develop is fine by me..

[ed rooney]

Hey I just notice the Dodgers and that Bum Gonzales did not make the playoffs....That trade might start looking like the steal of the century real soon. If one or 2 of those prospect turn into a star or just real solid contributors that's a W for the Sox...And we sign a FA or two that can perform in this market and still save money epic win.

I think the Sox might sign Ellsbury to be the face of the franchise I am not positive the return on him in a trade will be worth dumping him.

[g60rabbit]

Could they *get* front line starter for Ellsbury? The guy is only one season removed from top 3 in MVP voting. He's young... and doesnt make that much money (yet). I'll say it again... I cant believe how fast it all fell apart in Boston. Are they shedding any higher paid underperformers in the offseason (Dice K, etc)?

No.

Sandwiched between that almost MVP season he has played a total of about 100 games, has about a 270 OBP and an OPS of about 500.

In 660 at bats last year he hit 32 homers

In his 1600 other at bats he has hit 24

He will be 30 next year, he will be a FA AND maybe most importantly is a Boras client.

What front line pitcher [especially a young one] would you be able to get based on that info.

Sox IMO need to keep him. Hope that he rebounds next year and can trade him at the deadline.

[GeoffD]

As for the above comments the Sox payroll will be just fine. All this doom and gloom is not going to turn the Sox into a small market team. Ain't going to happen no matter how much you want to believe this dude. You have been talking TV revenue for 3 years give it a rest.

The Red Sox have been pulling about $60 million out of NESN recently. In 2011, they had a 7.9 Nielson rating in a year where they were competitive and at the top of the division on September 1. I have seen no ratings for 2012 yet but I'd be amazed if they were even half of that. Even in sports bars around here, the game wasn't on much of the time.

[ed rooney]

But like any business you have strong years and not so strong years. You have to believe they made enough cash off the 2 rings and other strong years to average out a low spot or two.

You read about Henry's hedge fund now and then you about great returns and sometimes he is down in returns but you know he averages it out..The Sox are no different a down year or two will get average out by rebuilding a winner. Now if they don't rebuild into a winner and have 6 to 10 losing years then they are in trouble.

Its not like ownership is under capitalized either for how ever many billions Henry is worth Werner is right up there too.

[tragik]

Bobby V getting fired tonight or what?!

[beng]

Thats whats being reported

[ed rooney]

Thank Jeebus this season is over here's to a better 2013

Now don't go do something stupid like letting Bobby V come back for another year.

[DIAF]

Bobby V getting fired tonight or what?!

His season came to a painful end: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...1984--mlb.html