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    Thread: Official 337/20AE/GLI Dyno Sheet Thread

    1. Moderator Flyin18T's Avatar
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      05-04-2005 09:27 PM #1
      I think we need this. I know a lot of people, along with myself would love to see direct comparisons of performance gains from mods over stock setup.
      Example....
      -Dyno sheet of turbo-back downpipe/exhaust over stock setup. (direct comparison)
      -Dyno sheet of ECU flash over stock.
      -Dyno sheet of FMIC over stock.
      etc.....

      Hopefully we can compile a library of sheets to refer to so we can eliminate a ton of repetitive posts.

      Hopefully someone can start us off.

      2012 MKVI Jetta GLI / 2008 Civic Si Sedan / 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 / 2004 MKIV Jetta GLI (1.8T) / 1996 MKIII Jetta GLX VR6

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    2. Member gtivrsix's Avatar
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      05-04-2005 10:11 PM #2
      Here is bone stock vs APR 93 on my 20th

      temp was about 95 outside, and over 100F inside, a 5 min cooldown was made between runs.


      Modified by gtivrsix at 1:59 PM 5-28-2005


    3. Member gtivrsix's Avatar
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      03 20th AE #775, 04 Saab 9-3 Convertable, 10 Mini Cooper
      05-04-2005 10:14 PM #3
      same car, with the addition of:

      N75J
      EVOMS front mount intercooler
      GHL turbo-back
      Carbino CAI
      Samco turbo inlet




      Modified by gtivrsix at 1:59 PM 5-28-2005


    4. 05-04-2005 10:28 PM #4
      great idea, this should limit the "how much hp from a chip" post

    5. Banned Hetzen's Avatar
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      05-04-2005 11:00 PM #5
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1973560

      2.5 vs. stock catback on VR6. Prob similar on 1.8T....


    6. Member gtivrsix's Avatar
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      05-04-2005 11:23 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by Hetzen »
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1973560

      2.5 vs. stock catback on VR6. Prob similar on 1.8T....

      not really, an exhaust has a much bigger effect on a forced induced car.


    7. Banned Hetzen's Avatar
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      05-04-2005 11:29 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by gtivrsix »

      not really, an exhaust has a much bigger effect on a forced induced car.

      Even better!


    8. Member vabeach337's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 03:29 AM #8
      some might like this, APR 93 with APR 2.5" TB on a dyno dynamics dyno
      About 65 degrees, it was raining(so 90%+ humidity) and I'm at sea level

      http://www.hrdubs.com/gallery/...d.jpg


      Modified by vabeach337 at 6:37 AM 5-6-2005

      MKV R32 HPA FT425(sold)
      337 APR 3+(sold)
      MKIV GLI (ex took it)

      2012 R Black APR Stage 1, GOLF Monster Mats, New South Boost Gauge in Vent Pod

    9. Member gtivrsix's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 04:14 AM #9
      you mean this

      looks like 188.9whp and approx 210ftlbs


      Modified by gtivrsix at 3:18 AM 5-5-2005


    10. Member vabeach337's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 04:18 AM #10
      works the same
      MKV R32 HPA FT425(sold)
      337 APR 3+(sold)
      MKIV GLI (ex took it)

      2012 R Black APR Stage 1, GOLF Monster Mats, New South Boost Gauge in Vent Pod

    11. Member gtivrsix's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 04:19 AM #11
      i just thought it would be easier to scroll through the charts instead of clickin a bunch of links. no worries man

    12. Member gtivrsix's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 05:10 AM #12
      very true, thats why i tried to dyno every time at the same dyno when i modded the car, but it got expensive real fast


      Modified by gtivrsix at 4:12 AM 5-5-2005

    13. 05-05-2005 09:24 AM #13
      the 2 dyno sheets i have unfortunately are from different dyno's (all are 4th gear runs)..and the 2nd was a dyno reading very low #'s (about 10% lower than it shgould have been)..so i think they are off....but here are my 2...the 1st page is my '04 GLI...1st run is with APR Chip......stock exhaust....the 2nd run is same chip with a 2.5 inch DP and high flow cat...but no time for the car to adapt.....the 2nd page is my dyno run with cat back done and N75 Valve installed.....

      the 2nd page #'s are very off.....i think it should be reading at least another 5-8 HP....several other cars that dyno'd that day were very low compared to known crank HP #'s..i hope to go back to the orginal place to have my car re-run for a more direct comparison.....

      Dan


      Modified by JettaManDan at 8:32 AM 5-8-2005

      Am I OG status yet? Close to 40 years old and still driving a slammed and Boosted 'Dub...cool or sad?

    14. 05-05-2005 09:29 AM #14


      Stock 337 (w/ Velosity CAI )
      (168hp 166 ft/lbs)

      Vid


    15. Moderator Flyin18T's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 09:38 AM #15
      Quote, originally posted by Spicoli »
      The hard part with doing this... is not everyone uses the same dyno. So, #s will be skewed. Dyno's are really only accurate to themselves. Dynojet vs. Mustang will give different #s for the exact same car.

      Exactly. If someone posting knows extra information about the pull then hopefully they will post it. Obviously humidity, altitude, etc.. come into play. I'm sure some of us should read the info and scale the numbers in our head based on the parameters of the pull. Thanks for pointing this out though.

      2012 MKVI Jetta GLI / 2008 Civic Si Sedan / 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 / 2004 MKIV Jetta GLI (1.8T) / 1996 MKIII Jetta GLX VR6

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    16. 05-05-2005 10:03 AM #16
      Quote, originally posted by Spicoli »
      The hard part with doing this... is not everyone uses the same dyno. So, #s will be skewed. Dyno's are really only accurate to themselves. Dynojet vs. Mustang will give different #s for the exact same car.

      I think the whole point is for people to post before/after dyno charts from the same dyno. Ambient conditions would change things a bit, but it will still give a better idea of what effect a mod has. Personally, I'd rather see the torque curve after a mod is done rather than just knowing what the max torque is.


    17. Member chisai88's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 10:36 AM #17
      I need to get mine dynoed. Its also a stock 337 with just a CAI, hopefully get it done soon. I will post dynosheet when I have done so. Then we can compare Protijy337 and mine. I have the ABD intake.

    18. 05-05-2005 10:42 AM #18
      intake won't do much! but the 165-170 hp range to the wheels stock is normal

    19. 05-05-2005 10:54 AM #19
      Quote, originally posted by FlyinVR6 »
      I think we need this. I know a lot of people, along with myself would love to see direct comparisons of performance gains from mods over stock setup.
      Example....
      -Dyno sheet of turbo-back downpipe/exhaust over stock setup. (direct comparison)
      -Dyno sheet of ECU flash over stock.
      -Dyno sheet of FMIC over stock.
      etc.....

      Hopefully we can compile a library of sheets to refer to so we can eliminate a ton of repetitive posts.

      Hopefully someone can start us off.

      I think this is a terrible idea cause then all your going to get is 10,000 new posts asking "why didn't my car make X amout of hp when I added Y?". Dyno numbers are really screwy and every car reacts differently to moddifications. You could put that in the first sentence of this thread and still 90% of the people would just look at the pretty pictures and complain when their cars can't make similar numbers.


    20. Member Dr. Hank McCoy's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 11:31 AM #20
      I think this will be useful, so long as maybe we put a disclaimer to all the n00b's who will do all of that, "why didn't i get x more for my y". Most of us (more in-the-know) people know that it's a relative scale when it comes to dyno's. EXACT #'s aren't going to happen, but if someone slaps up a dyno sheet w/ a 2.5" TB v. stock, instead of thinking, "Hmm, I'll get X from this set-up" it's better to simply think, "Hmm, that set up made a(n) (in)discernable difference.

      Also, there is still some usefulness to the shape of the curves too. "X CAI bumped up the torque range while flattening it out."

      So any n00b who goes into this thread, looking for, "I will get 5 hp w/ this CAI" shouldn't even be looking in here in the 1st place. (Sorry). But for most people who can take a dyno sheet w/ a grain of salt, I think this is pretty useful and a good idea!!!

      I'm going to be getting my exhaust (due to funds) "piece-meal". So NO ONE wants to see how signficant the gains in an APR 2.5" is over stock??? what about just the dp (my 1st add on)??? now w/ the cat-back (when $$ becomes available). NOT USEFUL??? I mean, so long as everyone understands the relative scale, I think this is great!!!

      So let's keep this going!

      **The Pelvic Exam Ninja** (It is also a coincidence I am going to be a REAL doctor. Dr Hank McCoy is Beast from X-men. Who is Nog Blue, like my old S4 )

    21. 05-05-2005 11:52 AM #21
      Thats another problem though, cause very few people actually have access to dyno time after each and every mod. So again the numbers won't really make much sense. I mean are you really going to blow the extra money to redyno your car after you add just a dp, and then later the cat-back?

    22. Member Dr. Hank McCoy's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 12:10 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by Frank aka Rick »
      Thats another problem though, cause very few people actually have access to dyno time after each and every mod. So again the numbers won't really make much sense. I mean are you really going to blow the extra money to redyno your car after you add just a dp, and then later the cat-back?

      To satisfy my own curiosity, PERHAPS. Folks, the cat-back is VERY FAR down the road. Probably even a year (for $$$ what else). And I've been waiting to see what I put down for years! The dyno for just the DP looks highly probable!

      me, I've heard aftermarket exhausts and still kinda like the way the stock 20th/337 exhaust sounds. So if when I DO end up w/ the cat-back, I'd want to see how much of a difference it makes. There's your 2nd dyno run.

      Also, I think most of the "supplier/vendors" do some of the work already. I remember tyrolkid's post yesterday showing the runs of the stock smic v. their upgraded one. So if someone comes by one (fine, if I) come by one, all I/one has to do is repost it.

      Just the idea of kinda "one stop shopping" for dyno runs, etc. is great!!!!

      Then again, though. I think this would rock a lot more in the 1.8t forum than here. I don't know.

      **The Pelvic Exam Ninja** (It is also a coincidence I am going to be a REAL doctor. Dr Hank McCoy is Beast from X-men. Who is Nog Blue, like my old S4 )

    23. 05-05-2005 12:52 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by gtfli1 »

      To satisfy my own curiosity, PERHAPS. Folks, the cat-back is VERY FAR down the road. Probably even a year (for $$$ what else). And I've been waiting to see what I put down for years! The dyno for just the DP looks highly probable!

      me, I've heard aftermarket exhausts and still kinda like the way the stock 20th/337 exhaust sounds. So if when I DO end up w/ the cat-back, I'd want to see how much of a difference it makes. There's your 2nd dyno run.

      Also, I think most of the "supplier/vendors" do some of the work already. I remember tyrolkid's post yesterday showing the runs of the stock smic v. their upgraded one. So if someone comes by one (fine, if I) come by one, all I/one has to do is repost it.

      Just the idea of kinda "one stop shopping" for dyno runs, etc. is great!!!!

      Then again, though. I think this would rock a lot more in the 1.8t forum than here. I don't know.

      Well..my dyno sheets should help....i made 181hp with the stock exhaust...gained 10 hp from the DP and cat..and then another at least 7 from the cat back.....so a TB exhaust on my car was worth 17 HP to the wheels...a huge improvement..not to mention the freer flowing nature of the engine now....it's these kinds of tests that mean something to someone.......my baseline dyno (not shown) was 161 to the wheels.....even with my 2nd page being a dyno run that i believe was low #'s - i still show over 37 hp and 60lbft increase due to chip and exhaust..and those #'s have been helpful to a lot of people.....

      Dan

      Am I OG status yet? Close to 40 years old and still driving a slammed and Boosted 'Dub...cool or sad?

    24. Member Dr. Hank McCoy's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 01:59 PM #24
      Quote, originally posted by JettaManDan »

      Well..my dyno sheets should help....i made 181hp with the stock exhaust...gained 10 hp from the DP and cat..and then another at least 7 from the cat back.....so a TB exhaust on my car was worth 17 HP to the wheels...a huge improvement..not to mention the freer flowing nature of the engine now....it's these kinds of tests that mean something to someone.......my baseline dyno (not shown) was 161 to the wheels.....even with my 2nd page being a dyno run that i believe was low #'s - i still show over 37 hp and 60lbft increase due to chip and exhaust..and those #'s have been helpful to a lot of people.....

      Dan

      Rock on! I think some of the sentiment that is kinda interlaced w/ this, is we don't want someone to post in here and say, "Hey, I only got 12 whp more from my TB. WTF???"

      And the rest of us , ya know??? But like I've wanted to say, people who know what's up w/ dyno sheets, overall, aren't going to be looking to repeat those exact same #, just cuz we know better. Right???

      When my DP goes on, I'm not going to get cuz I only get an extra 8 hp OR cuz I end up w/ 12 hp. But someone else might.

      **The Pelvic Exam Ninja** (It is also a coincidence I am going to be a REAL doctor. Dr Hank McCoy is Beast from X-men. Who is Nog Blue, like my old S4 )

    25. Moderator Flyin18T's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 02:20 PM #25
      Isn't it helpful to not only see how much of a gain you get, but also WHERE you are gaining? A dyno will tell you that and info like this is similar no matter what dyno you're using.
      Example... Are you getting more low end or high end gains from a new turbo-back? A dyno will show you where.
      2012 MKVI Jetta GLI / 2008 Civic Si Sedan / 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 / 2004 MKIV Jetta GLI (1.8T) / 1996 MKIII Jetta GLX VR6

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    26. Member gtivrsix's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 06:03 PM #26
      Instead of being negetive, why not support the thread. Half this thread is useful information, the rest is cluttered with worries of how people will use the info. My opinon... WHO CARES how they use it. The info is useful to anyone trying to build a purpose built car. If someone is looking to gain more topend power and torque, they can browse the charts and get an idea of what needs to be done to achieve it. The numbers are a guideline. Even when the cars are brand new, there is a descrepency in the numbers of identical cars. This is not a thread about "who dyno'ed more" or why dont i get that from mine. Sure it would be useful in the 1.8t forum, but not all 1.8ts have the O2M 6speed, which will change the numbers slightly on the dyno. Same with the brakes and wheels that came stock, we had alot more drivetrain loss than a stock 1.8t golf or jetta.

      I think the thread is a good idea and plan on posting more charts as I get them.

      Something else to add when posting: what gear was the pull made in?


    27. Moderator Flyin18T's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 10:50 PM #27
      Love to see some dyno sheets before/after FMIC install.
      2012 MKVI Jetta GLI / 2008 Civic Si Sedan / 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 / 2004 MKIV Jetta GLI (1.8T) / 1996 MKIII Jetta GLX VR6

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    28. 05-05-2005 10:54 PM #28

      heres my dyno sheet of X+ , N75j and CAI ...god I love GIAC


    29. 05-05-2005 10:56 PM #29
      for those who cant see it says 197.7whp and unfortunately they couldnt find a solid place to tap the torque sensor so no accurate torque measure

    30. Member gtivrsix's Avatar
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      05-05-2005 11:37 PM #30
      thats a very flat powerband, very impressive.

    31. 05-06-2005 09:04 AM #31
      I don't know what it feels like in the car, but from the dyno it looks like you've got some surging going on. Would a better DV fix that? Maybe the dyno is just making it look worse than it is.

    32. Member Dr. Hank McCoy's Avatar
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      05-06-2005 10:28 AM #32
      Quote, originally posted by 2004GLI »
      for those who cant see it says 197.7whp and unfortunately they couldnt find a solid place to tap the torque sensor so no accurate torque measure

      Should be "on to business". Personally I put all of that "non-dyno" dribble in so that people could read it, and be somewhat informed. Now that I agree, it's been beat dead...

      SHOW US YOUR DYNOS

      Also, I know for most people, they're as big as they are, so I like what you did, and posted the actual #'s, cuz I couldn't read it for S#!t!!!! If you're #'s are too small to read, try to do the same!

      **The Pelvic Exam Ninja** (It is also a coincidence I am going to be a REAL doctor. Dr Hank McCoy is Beast from X-men. Who is Nog Blue, like my old S4 )

    33. 05-06-2005 10:46 AM #33
      ok fine I'll contribute instead of naysaying


      Mods are as follows:

      GIAC v.11 93 oct
      3" GHL turboback
      ECS pullies
      Samco TIP
      Samco hoses
      Greddy Profec II spec B set to 17.5 psi
      EVOMs fmic
      EVOMs cai
      custom 8 gauge grounding wires

      As you can see GIAC v.11 was causing my throttle body to shut down around 5500 rpm. I just switched over to REVO so I plan on dynoing again just to see the difference. The car runs a crap load smoother now, and feels alot stronger up top too.


    34. Member Dr. Hank McCoy's Avatar
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      05-06-2005 11:00 AM #34
      Quote, originally posted by Frank aka Rick »
      ok fine I'll contribute instead of naysaying

      Runnin' a lil "lean" ain'tcha partner??? Most people I know w/ GIAC run "lean".

      **The Pelvic Exam Ninja** (It is also a coincidence I am going to be a REAL doctor. Dr Hank McCoy is Beast from X-men. Who is Nog Blue, like my old S4 )

    35. 05-06-2005 11:35 AM #35
      yeah I blame the programming, I had way too many issues with it. Actually if you look at alot of chipped ecu's they have similar a/f ratios...lean down low, and rich as hell up top. thus why going revo was a good choice for me. plus big turbo is only around the corner...


      Modified by Frank aka Rick at 8:36 AM 5-6-2005

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