H&R rear sway bar review

[npavlo]

Well, i finally got my 21mm H&R rear sway bar for the R. This is the first modification (besides flapper mod).

I found that at higher speeds, I could easily balance the handling charecteristics of this vehicle no problem, perhaps with some secondary weight transfer and maybe a brush of left foot brake to plant the front. Still, at lower speeds (autocross style stuff), i noticed some pretty heavy (heavy car too ) understeer. I figured id try, I am a fan of the slide anyways.

Install took about 30 min (I work in a shop with lift, etc) and I set it on the stiffest setting, assuming that since it was smaller than the neuspeed 22mm bar, theoretically it would act upon the car less.
Boy was I wrong.

Just before installing the bar, I took the car for a spin to warm the engine up (for oil service), and there is a turn around here over by my work. I proceded at about 45mph to flick and left foot brake the turn around pretty aggressively (mind you, with the stock RSB this time), And I got the vehicle to rotate about 10-15 degrees for about 10 feet. Not bad. This was going to be my initial benchmark.

After the oil service was complete, and the RSB installed. I went for the same ride, and performed the same manuever. I probally should have drove the car more, but my anticipations were low. Either way, the area was decently safe, grass on either side, etc. Anyways, I drove through pretty much the entire turn around sideways. Luckily AWD is all of our friends and throttle application easily subdues "out of controlness".

So ya, huge difference.
More driving impressions prove this mod to be almost "dangerous"... especially to a person who say, borrows your car to get a coffee or something...

going around on ramps at moderate paces (not breakneck stuff, remember were still on the street here), adding more turn in, say if you had to avoid something, pretty much instantly upsets the car and the rear end starts to slide.

Bottom line, I have to be careful, and give people fair warning of the rotational habits of this short wheel based car now . at least until i can get under there and set the bar on full soft. My tire pressures on the stock F1s are 40/44 too.. I run more in the front than recommended to prevent failed sidewalls (had one before 1500 miles, with hitting no obstructions in the road )

I really wonder what the guys with the new 25mm rear race bar from neuspeed experiance. I mean, any stiffer than this, and you need to compensate with the front somehow. Its just necessary.

Enjoy
-npavlo
(founder/owner http://www.euromelee.com http://www.diffsonline.com)

[LYKUNO]

Thanks for the review! I haven't installed my H&R RSB yet (maybe this weekend or next), but I have been thinking about using the less aggressive setting (I don't track the car, no autocrossing, and am concerned over losing it in an avoidance maneuver or at play on an on/off ramp). I thought it might be wise to get accustomed to the changed handling before going to the stiffer setting.

[roadrunner469]

Thanks for the good write up Nick. Does this mean we'll see some more cool videos soon?

[JFNovae]

enlightning, thanks for that. when budget allows the H&R RSB is the one i want. Im thinking the soft setting may be best though unles im at the track... feedback on that would be great (soft setting). do sway bars have a break in period? id think they would be most soft the first 100 miles or so..

[wrh3]

Another plus for this bar is no sqeaking AND no annual bushing re-lube

[npavlo]

Quote, originally posted by roadrunner469 »

Thanks for the good write up Nick. Does this mean we'll see some more cool videos soon?

Ya, you can count on that. I'm in enough trouble from the last one, so it probally wont be as "well done" Im in the middle of the HIN boston project, so it wont be for a while.

Ya, the bar is completely silent. no squeaking, etc.

I will respond to this thread when i try it on the soft setting.

[vso]

Quote, originally posted by npavlo »

Well, i finally got my 21mm H&R rear sway bar for the R. This is the first modification (besides flapper mod). I found that at higher speeds, I could easily balance the handling charecteristics of this vehicle no problem, perhaps with some secondary weight transfer and maybe a brush of left foot brake to plant the front. Still, at lower speeds (autocross style stuff), i noticed some pretty heavy (heavy car too ) understeer. I figured id try, I am a fan of the slide anyways. Install took about 30 min (I work in a shop with lift, etc) and I set it on the stiffest setting, assuming that since it was smaller than the neuspeed 22mm bar, theoretically it would act upon the car less. Boy was I wrong. Just before installing the bar, I took the car for a spin to warm the engine up (for oil service), and there is a turn around here over by my work. I proceded at about 45mph to flick and left foot brake the turn around pretty aggressively (mind you, with the stock RSB this time), And I got the vehicle to rotate about 10-15 degrees for about 10 feet. Not bad. This was going to be my initial benchmark. After the oil service was complete, and the RSB installed. I went for the same ride, and performed the same manuever. I probally should have drove the car more, but my anticipations were low. Either way, the area was decently safe, grass on either side, etc. Anyways, I drove through pretty much the entire turn around sideways. Luckily AWD is all of our friends and throttle application easily subdues "out of controlness". So ya, huge difference. More driving impressions prove this mod to be almost "dangerous"... especially to a person who say, borrows your car to get a coffee or something... going around on ramps at moderate paces (not breakneck stuff, remember were still on the street here), adding more turn in, say if you had to avoid something, pretty much instantly upsets the car and the rear end starts to slide. Bottom line, I have to be careful, and give people fair warning of the rotational habits of this short wheel based car now . at least until i can get under there and set the bar on full soft. My tire pressures on the stock F1s are 40/44 too.. I run more in the front than recommended to prevent failed sidewalls (had one before 1500 miles, with hitting no obstructions in the road ) I really wonder what the guys with the new 25mm rear race bar from neuspeed experiance. I mean, any stiffer than this, and you need to compensate with the front somehow. Its just necessary. Enjoy -npavlo (founder/owner http://www.euromelee.com http://www.diffsonline.com)

Any problems with bolts not matching? Do the instructions include calibrations for how tight the bolts need to be cinched down?

Any trouble since your install?

[GTItraveler]

Before changing the bar setting to soft you may try reducing your rear tire pressure. The higher rear tire pressure was MUCH more necessary without the bigger rear bar. After the bar the balance is really changed. My suggestion is to try equal tire pressure F/R (i.e. 40/40) or maybe one PSI higher in the rear (i.e. 40/41). I think you will be really surprised what a difference this makes in the balance

[schuntzie]

Anybody else have any thoughts on whether to go with the hard or soft setting? My H&R bar goes on tomorrow...

Thanks.

[flynscot63]

I have both on front and rear on hard setting and my car drives like it is on rails.


Modified by flynscot63 at 11:01 PM 5-15-2005

[LYKUNO]

Quote, originally posted by flynscot63 »

I have both on front and rear on hard setting and my car drives like it is on rails.

... so tell us, what tire pressures are you running F&R ...

[flynscot63]

Quote, originally posted by LYKUNO »

... so tell us, what tire pressures are you running F&R ...

40F 44R

[npavlo]

Quote, originally posted by vso »

Any problems with bolts not matching? Do the instructions include calibrations for how tight the bolts need to be cinched down? Any trouble since your install?

the fit was perfect.
they did nto include torque specs, etc.

i figure running the high pressure is necessary, from the "tests" ive run, running less will just roll the tires over more. I have to drive the car more to really decide whether im going to leave it on ful stiff.

what i would do initially with this bar, is set it soft, then go from there. Its not hard to change the setting afterward.. if yoru not happy with it on soft, try a harder setting.

[GTItraveler]

I wouldn't lower the pressure less in the front; 40-41 is fine to counteract rollover and as this is much more of an issue on an already front heavy car, reducing the tire pressure on the rear will have little effect of tire rollover back there. You would be surprised what tire pressure can do. Even a few lbs less in the rear will likely have the car handling *better*

[maximluva]

i agree, over inflated rears are probably giving out suddenly like that and spinning your arse around more than normal.

try 40/40.

[schwordr]

NPAVLO ....
What is the rest of your suspension setup? Are still running all stock springs/shocks?

I'll be putting in the H&R Sport Springs and Bilstien Sprot Shocks as soon as the springs get back from color matching to the calipers. H&R sways (front and rear) are in the picture; just haven't desided if they go in at the same time. Thoughts?

[npavlo]

Quote, originally posted by schwordr »

NPAVLO .... What is the rest of your suspension setup? Are still running all stock springs/shocks? I'll be putting in the H&R Sport Springs and Bilstien Sprot Shocks as soon as the springs get back from color matching to the calipers. H&R sways (front and rear) are in the picture; just haven't desided if they go in at the same time. Thoughts?

I have complagtely stock suspension, with JUST the rear H&R bar.

[schwordr]

Quote, originally posted by npavlo »

I have complagtely stock suspension, with JUST the rear H&R bar.

well that don't provide much insigth for me. But thanks for a timely responce.

[vso]

Quote, originally posted by flynscot63 »

I have both on front and rear on hard setting and my car drives like it is on rails. Modified by flynscot63 at 11:01 PM 5-15-2005

Is your front an H & R as well? How was the installation? Any pics? Did the hood close ok with the FSB in?

[flynscot63]

Quote, originally posted by vso »

Is your front an H & R as well? How was the installation? Any pics? Did the hood close ok with the FSB in?

Yes it is 25 mm H&R We had to drop the steering box but it was an easy instalation. and there is no problem with the hood? sorry no picks

[npavlo]

More driving impressions.

low speed turns (autocross style) is way better. The rear end tracks around well, i almost want to say it reduced understeer instead of inducing oversteer (even though thats what its doing).
as for higher speeds :
I set the tire pressures to 40/40, and i went around an off ramp this morning and gave extra wheel, and the rear end slid. alot. to the point where i had to step on the gas to straiten back out again (was going about 70)

i figure if i set the bar on the softest setting it will be perfect.
overall i like it, i just have to watch who borrows my car

[jay@namotorsports]

If anyone is interested in picking up the H&R bar we do have several in stock right now.

[schuntzie]

Got the H&R bar installed, went with the firm setting. Haven't had a chance to flog it yet (currently MUCH rain here!), but turn in is much crisper, car rotates much more easily. Also had the lower front stress bar installed at the same time, though I doubt it affects the handling much, if at all. Now running 43f/40r on the Goodyears.

-e


Modified by schuntzie at 5:59 AM 5-20-2005

[blujet]

Two quick question....

Is the hole closest to the tip the stiffer setting? (This is probably already covered in this thread and I'm missing it)

In the top picture, are the outer brackets on the H&R bushings already on the car and were moved from the old to new bar before the picture?

[schuntzie]

Holy sheee-it!
Got a chance to flog the R on one of my favorite pieces of pavement this A.M., hard to believe the difference the H&R rear sway bar makes... Initially was just kinda feeling things out, getting used to the crisper responses of the car: the sway bar makes the most difference, but I also installed a lower stress bar & a steel skid plate, which seem to tighten up the front end. Anyway, looked in the rear view to see a TT on my bumper (running with it's HID's on in broad daylight... )
CURVES coming up, jumped on it a bit, pushing it a bit harder it seemed each curve, as I grew more & more confident in the new handling responses of the R. Man, a little trail braking and the car just rotates to whatever point you want, never (knock on wood) biting back... These are some crazy curves: 40mph into 90 degree 15mph curves & back out again, complete with elevation changes and blind corners.
TT disappeared. Backed it off on the first straight, TT pushes hard, catches up. Next set of curves: Audi tries to keep up, not so successful...
He really wanted to play, followed me matter how many random turns I took, just couldn't hang!
I'm sure there are subtle difference between the various sway bars, but just pick one and install it: the single best R mod... (besides the flapper!)

-e

Modified by schuntzie at 6:57 AM 5-22-2005


Modified by schuntzie at 7:00 AM 5-22-2005

[R32Kiter]

Do tell. Where is this favorite bit of pavement sir ??

[ARRR Matey 32]

Quote, originally posted by npavlo »

I set the tire pressures to 40/40, and i went around an off ramp this morning and gave extra wheel, and the rear end slid. alot. to the point where i had to step on the gas to straiten back out again (was going about 70)

I dont know how you guys run 40 PSI in the rear. I run 39Fr and 34 rear.

[mitsui14sun]

Schuntzie, take me for a spin sometimes

[schuntzie]

Quote, originally posted by R32Kiter »

Do tell. Where is this favorite bit of pavement sir ??

Not give away too much, but just about due east of you, farmland... Go get lost on your way to Duvall, you'll find the roads I like. Just keep an eye out for the bikers, roadies AND Harleys.

e


Modified by schuntzie at 10:37 PM 5-22-2005

[R32Kiter]

Ah Yes he says with a knowing twinkle. The BMW R1100s just seems to know those roads. Time to introduce the Mistress to them as well. Thanks.

J