Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix!

[John222]

It's only held in with one hex bolt. Remove that plastic cover on top of the radiator, unbolt the front motor mount and jack up the front of the motor a few inches. Then remove dip stick tube. Now you can use a small mirror to see the bolt holding the kombi valve. You will need a 1/4 drive socket driver with a short extension and hex socket to remove. comes out pretty easy.

John

[Ultramagnus0001]

The other solenoid is for the intake shifter rod on the AFP 12v engine. It switches intake runners to improve torque at lower and higher RPMs by rotating the shifter rod.

http://www.gruvenparts.com/website/d...rod_on_a_m.htm

UPDATE: 4/7/09: I take back what I said below about the 58 Ohm. The AllData book might be wrong and that my solenoid checking out at 58 Ohm may be correct. I do not know yet, so don't rely on these numbers to determine if the solenoid is bad.

Before you guys start replacing your SAI Solenoid, you guys need to know which part to replace! I think there's a few solenoid in there. According to this thread, page 1, someone mentioned 1K0 906 283, and I bought it, replaced it, but my CEL came on after half a week of driving. My friend mechanic told me that he sees another solenoid. My friend mechanic printed out the AllData Online information (it's a paid service), it specifically said for P0411, you need to test the SAI Solenoid Valve (N112). The resistance should be between 25.0 to 35.0 Ohms. Turns out, my buddy pulled out part 1j0 906 283 b. (My friend mechanic was pretty confident that N112 FOR MY CAR corresponded to part 1j0 906 283 b) We tested it to give 58 Ohms, which is outside of the spec of 25 to 35 Ohms. He also ran 12Volt across the terminals of the solenoid, 1j0 906 283 b, carefully (so you don't short your battery), and the solenoid did not Click. He said the solenoid should click. We suspect 1j0 906 283 b is defective.

Lesson I learned is that, Instead of taking the Combi Valve out, simple go under the car, and carefully take the Solenoids out and test them. It's very easy to locate. under the car, front most (take out the plastic), and it's front center, right behind the fan!! It's next to the oil filter according to my memory. There's a lower and a higher solenoid. While your at it, get yourself 2 to 3 feet of vacuum hose and replace it. (see page 1 of this thread for size). I find that the Kragen hose is a lot thicker than the OEM.. the OEM hose is puny..very thin. I think Kragen's hose is about 300% ticker, however, without the clothe covering. I don't think it matters, but I prefer something that's much thicker.

I do not know how many Ohms this part 1K0 906 283 should show. (does anyone know?)

So the moral of the story to fixing the P0411 is DO NOT take anything apart. First thing you check is the Solenoid. You can check if the fan comes on if you have the VAG-COM, and you'll hear the clicking. As for the Relay, my 2001 Jetta V6 AFP engine. The relay was located Next to the Air box. It's on top, and there's no fuse. I suppose different model has different design. With my friend's Snap-on VAG, when he tested the air pump, he could hear the relay click.

I will post pictures of the Relays specific to my car and take pictures of the location of these solenoid next week after I order the solenoid. Like I said, before you order your solenoid, take it out (replace the tubes while your at it), and test the Ohm.

Did I mention that I'm a professional photographer? These pictures will be very illustrative. Stay tune.

Modified by fastnetmail2 at 6:41 PM 4-5-2009

Modified by fastnetmail2 at 6:43 PM 4-5-2009

IMPORTANT UPDATE: 4/7/09: I take back what I said below about the 58 Ohm. The AllData book might be wrong and that my solenoid checking out at 58 Ohm may be correct. I do not know yet, so don't rely on these numbers to determine if the solenoid is bad.



Modified by fastnetmail2 at 5:44 AM 4-7-2009

[waughdigger]

can anyone tell me what these are in both pics??



and

[John222]

I thought the SAIP system only worked right after starting the car. Yesterday my cell came on after driving for 20 minutes. Why would that happen? The only thing currently wrong with the car is the thermostat is stuck open. Could that be telling the smog pump to start?

[John222]

Well my problem is finally fixed. Not only was the combi valve diaphragm leaking, but so was the N112 solenoid. Just a note to everyone, this N112 solenoid must hold vacuum. You can't just pull the hose and confirm the presence of vacuum when the solenoid is energized. You need to use a MityVac tester or one of the $20 Harbor freight vacuum pumps to pull a vacuum and confirm that the N112 valve holds the vacuum. The same test needs to be done to the combi valve. A slow leak in either of these items will cause a PO411 fault code.

I don't believe that some of the previously mentioned test can rule out small leaks in either of these parts. My combi valve was partially opening even with a leaky combi diaphragm and a leaky N112 solenoid. My system passed all the previously mentioned test in this thread but I still had a PO411. Apparently the combi it wasn't opening quite enough to satisfy the ECU. So for those of you still trying to get rid of the dreaded PO411, go buy or borrow a vacuum tester and confirm that the combi and N112 are functioning properly.

http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-b...kit-92474.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/mityvac...ump-39522.html

[nicewebsite]

I need to unbolting the front motor in order to fix the combi valve , would anyone show me exact many bolts and location of the bolts of the front end motor ?..DIY would be great ..Jetta 97 vr6 ..thanks in advance

[VR6JETTA4u1998]

I need to unbolting the front motor in order to fix the combi valve , would anyone show me exact many bolts and location of the bolts of the front end motor ?..DIY would be great ..Jetta 97 vr6 ..thanks in advance

did you get the info already? I just saw this. I am currently doing a write up of replacing A/C Compressor, drier and expansion valve for a 1998 Jetta. One of the first steps is removing the front end, so let me know if you still need it. I use vortex most of the time, so PM me so I get back to you.

[7rrivera7]

I want to test the SAI pump by connecting it to a battery but the 2 pins on the connector are not identified. My pump connector has a flat side and a rounded side - which side get 12 volts?

[VR6JETTA4u1998]

I want to test the SAI pump by connecting it to a battery but the 2 pins on the connector are not identified. My pump connector has a flat side and a rounded side - which side get 12 volts?

I got mine off the car now. It worked fine, but the vacuum hoses are crushed. I will take a look at it and let you know which side. If yours fails and you need another one, I am selling mine.

[7rrivera7]

I got mine off the car now. It worked fine, but the vacuum hoses are crushed. I will take a look at it and let you know which side. If yours fails and you need another one, I am selling mine.

Please let me know if you figured out which side of the pump gets 12v so I can test mine and possible buy yours...

[evershadowed]

I need to smog my car and I am pretty sure it is the solenoid on the SAI system that is bad. I replaced it 4 years ago when I had problems with the SAI (along with the Kombi Valve). I ran a few tests and it seems to be the solenoid. Here's what I did.

Started the car with everything normalized and listened to the pump kick on (that is the good news), also listened to the breather hose that attaches to the air box. It sounded like a wet/dry vac. Once the pump turned off it just sounded like how the car normally runs. I then took the vac line from the T-fitting that generally runs to the solenoid and connected the Kombi Valve ->Solenoid line to it (the T-fitting, which had vacuum)...the breather hose then sounded completely different (which I am assuming both from useful deductive logic....and what others have said on this thread...that the Kombi is still working). Does this so far seem correct?

I assume in order to correctly check the solenoid I need to wait until the car cools (as I don't have a VAG.COM) and start it again to check the vac on the solenoid (the Kombi->Solenoid line). Is this correct?

Finally, I need to try and pass Smog soon and as others have noted, the F***ing SAI throws off everything (my mpg has dropped to 16/23 at best and I do have new plugs, brand new CARB cat, clean air filter, etc.)

So I am wondering this....can I just connect the T-fitting line that usually runs to the solenoid directly to the Kombi? I imagine this would mean the Kombi valve with be constantly open, yes? Will this do any harm to the Kombi, or anything else? Sorry I am vague on this last part but I am unclear as to whether the Kombi/EGR valve has any other purposes other for the SAI system to work. thanks for any guidance

[evershadowed]

also, has anyone noticed if the solenoid used (i believe N112) is used on the mkIV's? I have noticed every once in a great while you can find a newer compatible part that costs a fraction of the price. Thanks

[98GTI_VR6]

i say the easiest way to get rid of that nig rig is 42dd sai plug.... any comments? 20$

[evershadowed]

Yeah, I wish. Damn CARB rules, I am not sure if you got rid of the SAI system and used a SAI plug/ C2 chip combo from BFI if that would pass smog in Cali...I doubt it would.

[evershadowed]

A few have mentioned that the CTS may be worth looking into as well. Where is the Coolant Temp. Sensor located? I can't find it in the Bentley manual. Also , is it a PITA to replace or is it worth it to just change. Also has anyone ever replaced their Fuel Pressure Regulator, I pulled mine out but do not know how to test to see if it is operating correctly

[DaveKlein]

I've read every single post in this thread! Thanks guys for the info.

The one question I have is my combi doesn't open so I've disconnected what I think is the vacuum line, which seems to be a hard plastic tube?, that runs up to combi? Please tell me if that is the right line? And also, if I blow through it, air comes out way up at the top under manifold somewhere. If this is the right line running to the combi, I'd think that it should not leak air when blown on.

And also, I can't see how to get that top plastic grill cover off without taking off the bumper ect...on a MK1V.

Thanks for any help!!

[DaveKlein]

Here's a short vid of where I'm at with this. I currently can't see the combi valve but the camera can. I thought the large tube ran directly to the combi but it's dazy chained off pump. I can't see a vacuum hose at all. The is a crazy hard place to get to.

[DaveKlein]

Well I feel like Tom Hanks in Castaway talking to myself but that's ok..

Combi valve had the same problem OP had who started this thread. Huge leak on vacuum line. It's working fine and pump is working well but engine light is still on. Does this take awhile to reset?

[DVanderBoom867]

Im getting ready to try this out on mine but what size emissions hose did you use and how long was it?

[jacospades]

98 VW GTi VR6
/////////////////

So, I'm getting some consistent results from my SAI system after replacing everything - combi, solenoid, vacuum tubing, pump, relay, fuse - and cleaning contacts at relay and all connectors, but the problem is that it's not the expected result. Instead of my SAI system kicking on at cold start and staying on for 65 seconds, the system will only kick on after the second start for the requisite 65 seconds. The third start yields the SAI system clicking on after 30 seconds and then immediately off (not for 5 seconds). The same results are produced whether 15F outside or 50F.

All components are working just not at the right time so my suspicions are gravitating towards either the ECM or the coolant temperature sensors being faulty. I've read this thread front to back many times but I must be missing something. Anyone have any ideas/insight?

Thanks in advance.

Pics:

[jacospades]

I failed to mention in my above post that the initial codes thrown were good ol' p0411 Faulty SAI and p1452 SAI system circuit open. The last code, p1452, doesn't show up in the search results often so I need some advise on what I should try apart from replacing the 50A fuse and cleaning the contacts to the relay, which I've done. The relay and pump can be jumped from the battery and I assume the solenoid is functioning properly as a)it's brand new, and b) I can feel suction at the air inlet and the pump doesn't sound like it's struggling and c)it's passed all suction tests. What next? Unwrap and inspect all wiring from the ECU to relay??

I'm still not ruling out the coolant fan control cut-off relay. I'm not sure how to test it though. Not much in search.

Activation is initiated by the Motronic Engine Control Module (ECM) -J220- via the First or Third Speed Coolant Fan Control Cut-Off relay -J229- to Secondary Air Injection solenoid valve -N112- and Combi-valve. After each subsequent engine start (up to max. 85 C engine temperature) the Secondary Air Injection system will (after a 20 second delay) switch in for 5 seconds during idle.

Thanks for looking.

[jacospades]

TTT

[jacospades]

TTT

[John222]

Why don't you put your old relay back in and see it it works. If it's still does it, then you may have a broken wire or bad connection between the ecu and the relay primary. When the fault indicates open circuit it's referring to an open circuit to the relay coil.

[jacospades]

I'm going to run connectivity tests with my multi-meter and swap in the old relay for giggles (though the new one clicks on and off fine). So close yet so far.

[VSittinStaticW]

Can this cause a lack of power after long trips as well as a whistle and almost drone sound??


i cant find any answers on this

[felipee24]

thanks guys! i passed emission today! you guys save me lots of $$$$

[Justacar]

Just had this code. Before you all go spend mad dow on a SAI, check the SAI selnoid between the rad and T stat housing. Its the black plastic thing with 2 va lines and a eletrical connecter. It wasnt opening causing the SIA to back up. Once I replaced it it opened the Combi valve instantlly. Gl

[llanowar]

nice

[PWRSAT WAGEN]

Yeah, I'm going through it too, got light and shop-vac sound. Much good info here, will make an attempt in myself. I think this also will persuade me to invest in the mighty VAG-COM. Also, does anyone know if a chip and delete will satisfy emissions in Georgia?

[mongovb]

For those who dont have the option or like me couldnt figure out witch motor motor mount constitutes the front and after unbolting the one at the front side of the trans and the other next to the firewall, the motor was not budging. Im sure it was something I didnt do. Anywho, I was able to pull the combi valve out without pulling the front end off or lifting the motor. I was already replacing the valve cover gasket so I decided to go for it. After removing the upper intake which wasnt that hard, I unbolted the fuel rail and wiggled out all 6 injectors at once. holding them up out of the way, I was able to see the bolt holding the combi valve in place. I picked up a round headed 6mm hex wrench with the 3/8 socket end on it from Lowes. That will reach back there far enough to get on that bolt. Unscrewed it and wiggled the valve out. plugged in the vacuum line and reversed the process. Make sure your vacuum line is not pinched or folded at a right angle when you wiggle the valve back in. I used some RTV to hold the retaining bolt on the valve when I re-installed it. I dont think it is any less effort to do it this way, but, if you dont have a jack, there is another option to removing the front end. Hope this helps someone. Thanks for the great info in this thread. It really got me on the right track and understanding how this little crap system works.

[BrokenGTI02]

I have to say this post is amazing and I need to try to find this hose to check on mine. I have tested switched and relays and everything is kicking on and off fine. I am just having a lack of power in all gears when accelerating.

Is there an easy way to find/check this hose with out tearing off the bumper? If I take that bumper off there are a whole lot of extras that should be done but I don't think the wife will appreciate the spending of vacation funds.

Thanks guys!

[Zaluss]

Today I put the car on ramps and removed the lower front engine mount bolt. As I jacked up the engine I could see the damaged braided vacuum lines on the solenoid but I wasn't sure how far to jack up the engine without damaging the other mounts. Any have any idea how far I can jack up the engine to access the vacuum lines?

[Chad Poland]

I read through the entire thread and now have an understanding of what to check on my MK4 12v VR6. However I thought I may post my symptoms to see if anyone else had similar issues.

*Can clear code and will come back after 30 or so miles.
*When CEL is activated "EMISSIONS WORKSHOP!" beeps at me after I take the motor past 2500RPM.
*Pump comes on and runs when starting for around 60 seconds.
*all visible hoses ( not ones in front of engine) block appear to be in good condition.
*previously had the hose connected to the air pump come loose which made a REAL loud noise


I have a feeling its the Kombi valve or one of the hoses linked to it. Also where are you guys buying the large diameter "emissions tubing"? One guys said Autozone and it looks simple enough but usually has complex bends and special locking fittings.

Thanks

[Chad Poland]

I read through the entire thread and now have an understanding of what to check on my MK4 12v VR6. However I thought I may post my symptoms to see if anyone else had similar issues.

*Can clear code and will come back after 30 or so miles.
*When CEL is activated "EMISSIONS WORKSHOP!" beeps at me after I take the motor past 2500RPM.
*Pump comes on and runs when starting for around 60 seconds.
*all visible hoses ( not ones in front of engine) block appear to be in good condition.
*previously had the hose connected to the air pump come loose which made a REAL loud noise


I have a feeling its the Kombi valve or one of the hoses linked to it. Also where are you guys buying the large diameter "emissions tubing"? One guys said Autozone and it looks simple enough but usually has complex bends and special locking fittings.

Thanks

Did some testing today.

Step 1
*Took off the air pump breather hose from air box and blew into with car off - Unable too blow through
-So that means the Combi valve is not stuck open (If I understand it right)

Step 2
*Started the car after it cooled down and tried to blow through breather hose with car running and air pump AUDIBLY running - still unable to blow through
- So that must mean that the combi valve is either
A - Stuck closed
or
B - Not opening due to no vaccuum from either a broken or pinched line or from the EGR Solenoid not working properly

An important note - The 2000 VR6 "appears" to have different vacuum hose routing than the older vr6's. Just from visually inspected under the car the vacuum hose running from the Combi valve to the Egr solenoid is NOT pinched at all. It may possibly be bent at a 90 degree angle coming off the nipple on the Combi valve but it doesn't appear to be.

Additional Step
* I also disconnected the vacuum hose that runs from the Combi valve to the Egr solenoid ( at the egr solenoid side) and used my handy Harbor Freight Brake Bleeder/Vacuum pump to pull a vacuum to test the line. The line held a vacuum ( well it did build pressure and lost it slowly due to my poor non air tight connections) which MUST mean that the line has no leaks, OR that it may possibly be bent at a 90 degree angle coming off the nipple on the Combi valve, but it doesn't appear to be.

I ordered a junkyard EGR solenoid and Combi Valve off Ebay for a decent price. If these cheap parts do not fix it, I'm ripping it all out, plugging it and getting a SAI delete tune from C2.

I will continue to follow up with my troubleshooting.