How to enable window operation using the Remote Key Fob

[PanEuropean]

Hello Everyone:

I had some very productive discussions with the German Phaeton owners this past weekend. Many of them are just as keen on making small tweaks and modifications as we are. What is funny is that in some cases, they want to do the opposite to what we want to do. For example, Phaetons sold within Germany do not make any kind of beep when the doors are locked with the remote control, or in the case of keyless access, by pressing the button on the door handle. Some German owners wanted to turn the beep on, whereas most North American owners want to turn the (enabled by default) beep OFF.

Now, here is the really, really funny part - which makes me appreciate how unique human beings are, how different we all are: Phaetons sold in Germany are delivered with the capability to raise and lower the windows (and open and close the sunroof) via the remote key fob turned ON. Phaetons sold in North America are delivered with this capability turned OFF. After I showed one owner how to enable the beep when the car is locked, he told me he would show me an equally good trick - how to turn OFF that 'undesirable' window up and down control via the remote control. He considered it undesirable because if the key fob button was held down too long while it was raining out, all the windows (and sunroof) would open, and the car would get wet.

Well - I don't have to tell you that we have been searching for the answer to this question like it was the Holy Grail - and our fellow German owners know the answer. Here is how to do it.

1) Determine the part number and suffix of the J393 Central Control for Comfort System controller installed in your Phaeton. This is the controller at address 46. In order to do this, you need a diagnostic scan tool such as a VAG-COM or a VAS 5051 or 5052. There is some discussion of these diagnostic scan tools at these threads, if you are not already familiar with them:

VAS 5051 Diagnostic and Programming Tool
VAG-COM Diagnostic Scan Tool and the Phaeton - reference information
Additional Information about the VAG-COM diagnostic scan tool

The controller in your Phaeton will most likely be one of three different versions:

- If you have a W12 Phaeton
Address 46: Central Conv.
Controller: 3D0 959 933 E
Component: 6P HSG 3212

By example, the W12 controller shown above is from my Phaeton.

- If you have an early production V8 Phaeton
Address 46: Central Conv.
Controller: 3D0 959 933 E
Component: 4D HSG 3212

By example, the V8 controller with part number suffix E and software 3212 shown above is from my dealer's demonstrator.

- If you have an later production V8 Phaeton
Address 46: Central Conv.
Controller: 3D0 959 933 F
Component: HSG 0101

Forum members Fly4Food (Philippe) and Uberanalyst (Dave) have the later production controllers in their Phaetons, as you can see by looking at the VAG-COM Controller Lists from Phaetons - for comparing coding, controller part numbers, software revisions, etc. post, where Philippe and Dave contributed their scans to our growing body of reference material. By the way, if you are not sure what the different suffixes of part numbers mean, or the differences in software codes shown above, have a look at this post, it will explain the nuances of understanding controller versions: How to determine controller software version levels using a diagnostic scan tool.

2) If your controller is the later production version - meaning, it has the part number suffix F and software version 0100 (very rare) or 0101 (more common, this is what is currently being used in Phaetons built today) - well, jump for joy, because enabling remote control of your windows and sunroof with your key fob is easier than turning off a seatbelt chime. If you have a W12, or a V8 with the earlier version part suffix E and software version 3212 - hang in there, we haven't quite figured that one out yet, but we think we are close.

3) If you have the later version controller (PN with the F suffix), simply open up controller 46 with your diagnostic scan tool, go to adaptation channel 25 - no security code is required - and change the value from 0 (meaning, remote control of windows from key fob NOT enabled) to 1 (meaning, remote control IS enabled. If you are using a VAG-COM, press the test button, then the save button, then close the controller, disconnect the VAG-COM, close the car doors, and try out your new trick.

4) To unlock the car, and make all the windows open, and the sunroof open, just press the unlock button on the key fob and hold it pressed in for longer than about 3 seconds. To lock the car and make all the windows and the sunroof close, press the lock button on the key fob, and hold it pressed for longer than about 3 seconds.

I can't recall if the windows "express up" - meaning, once they start to move, you can let go of the button - or if you have to hold the button on the key fob depressed until the glass has reached the fully open or fully closed position. I am pretty sure that the windows "express down", which is why the German owners wanted to turn this feature off - the car will get flooded if you hold the unlock button too long when it is raining out.

If you discover that your windows will "express up", and you have small children, then you will need to have a talk to them about not playing with the key fob, otherwise, the results will be like this rather funny Ford commercial: click here.

Regards,

Michael

PS: I note that there are some slight differences in the prefix of the component number - some controllers are just 'HSG 0101', others have a number in front of HSG, such as '1A HSG...' or '12 HSG...' I don't think this prefix number will make a difference, but the only (German) cars I saw that had the feature enabled had these prefixes: three cars - no prefix at all, another car, the prefix was 29.

Philippe, Dave - give it a try, let me know if it works. Michael

Modified by PanEuropean at 10:02 PM 6-18-2005

[dcowan699]

Thanks for that info Michael. I will make the change today. BTW, I love the beep sound on my car when I lock it. That let's me know its locked since we don't have a pull up button on the inside of the door at the window level to look at to verify a lock. I think the beep sound is not too loud to be annoying yet loud enough to hear for verification.

[PanEuropean]

Dr. C.

Uh, I hate to say this, but don't bother trying it - on the W12's (what you and I have), the J393 Central Control for Comfort System is a different part number, because it also has a tow-away sensor in it (hence the name Neigungssensor, which means 'level-sensor', or tilt-sensor).

To enable the key fob control on the W12's with the tow-away sensor, or on V8's that have the earlier version of the J393 Central Control for Comfort System with the part number suffix E, rather than F, the process of activating key fob control of windows is more difficult. I am still working on that one, it is (theoretically) possible, but it will take a while to get it figured out. Don't hold your breath.

Michael

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by dcowan699 »

I think the beep sound is not too loud to be annoying yet loud enough to hear for verification.

I agree with you, but it is actually against the law for the car to make that beep sound in Germany - which is why VW ships the Phaetons destined for the German market with the beep turned off.

Michael

[PhaetonChix]

Michael,

I recall a snowy evening in a Rochester, NY parking lot making THAT discovery. It might have been easier to steal the unit I was driving, but with the push of a button, I could crack my sunrooof from 20' away.

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Uh, I hate to say this, but don't bother trying it - on the W12's (what you and I have), the J393 Central Control for Comfort System is a different part number, because it also has a tow-away sensor in it (hence the name Neigungssensor, which means 'level-sensor', or tilt-sensor). To enable the key fob control on the W12's with the tow-away sensor, or on V8's that have the earlier version of the J393 Central Control for Comfort System with the part number suffix E, rather than F, the process of activating key fob control of windows is more difficult.

I wonder how difficult it is to retro fit the different control module?

~PC

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by PhaetonChix »

I wonder how difficult it is to retro fit the different control module?

It's a very, very expensive control module, I think it costs over $1,000.-

I know what has to be done to enable the function on the V8's with the E model controller, and on the W12's that have the tilt-sensor embedded in their J393 - hence the different part number altogether - but, I just don't know how to go about doing what has to be done. That will take some time to figure out. Time is something I don't have a lot of right now.

Michael

[fly4food]

I will give it a try when I get home tonight

[dcowan699]

SShhheesshh . I'm glad I read all of the above threads and warnings. I was just about to make the code changes !!
Long lunch break today and had a little time on my hands. I'll wait as this is not really a serious need for me anyway but would like to try it sometime if it can be done.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by dcowan699 »

SShhheesshh . I'm glad I read all of the above threads and warnings. I was just about to make the code changes !!

It won't hurt anything if someone changes the value in adaptation channel 25 of a W12 or E suffix controller V8 from 0 to 1 - I made this change on my W12 about 3 months ago, when I was doing research about this same matter.

But, if you have a W12 (of any kind - they all have tow-away sensors) or a V8 with an E suffix controller, then making this adaptation change alone is not enough to enable remote control of the windows via the key fob. More has to be done, and this is what I have to do further work on.

Michael

[uberanalyst]

Michael:
Tried the simple VAG-COM change you described on my V8 Phaeton -- and unfortunately it didn't work. I'm familiar with the intended operation (holding down the door unlock until the windows and sunroof open), since I use it all the time during hot summer months with my BMW M5.

i went back and rechecked everything, and the code definitely has been saved as a "1" (your pop-up instructions even showed up when I opened the controller).

At the same time using the VAG-COM, I reset my "Service Now" indicator that the dealer forgot to reset when I had my recent 5K mile oil change -- and it worked.

Any more suggestions?
- Dave

[fly4food]

Why do I find only adaptation 10 and not adaptation 25 under controller 46?

[Theresias]

Adaptation is function 10. 25 means in this case, that you have to choose channel 025 in function 10.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by uberanalyst »

Michael: Tried the simple VAG-COM change you described on my V8 Phaeton -- and unfortunately it didn't work... Any more suggestions?

Oh no - this is very bad news.

What we have to do now is find a North American Phaeton that was built during or after January of 2005, and try making the same coding change (change adaptation channel 025 of controller 46 to a 1) on it, and see if it works on that car. Once I know the results of that, I will then know how to proceed to solve the problem of enabling it on the earlier cars.

I was a tiny bit worried that this might happen - hence the post-script I added to my original post, wondering about the prefix numbers that appear before the letters 'HSG'. I guess those numbers are meaningful. Now we need someone to try this out on a January 2005 or later Phaeton, and report back - and let me know what the complete controller ID is on that car (prefix, 'HSG' letters, then software suffix).

David, thanks for your effort in testing this.

Michael

[Verist1]

I saw this feature work on VWOA Phaeton that was used in our Phaeton training about 8 months ago. Now I'll make some calls to see if I can get some info on the car.


Modified by Verist1 at 10:34 PM 5-24-2005

[PhaetonChix]

Regan,

The cars the Phaeton Touareg Luxury Ambassadors had were equipped with several Euro spec features, including the ability to open and close windows/sunroof with the key fob. Michael VAGCOM'd the unit I had for training in March. That's how we found about about the different control modules. That car even had a European VIN.

BTW, which trainer did you have? Joe? Patrick?

~PC

[chrisj428]

Michael,

Small problem. Coded the Cairo Grey on the showroom floor & it worked like a charm. Tried the Owner's demo and no luck.

Cairo Grey:
29HSG 3D0 959 933F

Black:
1AHSG 3D0 959 933F

I'm praying you have access to a solution for the 1A controller as that's the one I've been eyeballing for the last six months.

(n.b.: I was able to access both controllers the same, e.g. 46-10-25 and both accepted 1 for the new adaptation)

Thanks in advance...

[PanEuropean]

OK folks, thanks to the research done by Chris and Dave (posts just above), we can come to the following conclusions:

It is not sufficient to say "if you have a controller with part number suffix F and software suffix 0101, you can re-adapt channel 25 as discussed, and you then have remote window control". The discrimination is a bit finer than that. You must have part number suffix F, and software 0101, but we now know there is a further requirement, and that is that the prefix in front of the controller description has to be above a certain number. We know that controllers with prefix 29 will recode OK, because the unit that the Phaeton owner in Germany recoded when he demonstrated this trick to me was a prefix 29. Also, the unit that Chris successfully recoded in the USA was also a prefix 29. The controller in Dave's (Uberanalyst) Phaeton had prefix 12, and making the change on his controller had no results.

So, the cut-in prefix number for the ability to enable remote control of windows via the key fob is somewhere after 12, and either before or at 29. If there is anyone out there who has a car with a controller prefix number higher than 12, please give this a try, and let us know whether it works or not. This will greatly help build our knowledge base.

Just to recap, here is an example of a controller that can be adapted successfully:

Address 46: Central Conv.
Controller: 3D0 959 933 F
Component: 29 HSG 0101
Coding: 0000034

The required criteria we identified before is in blue, the new criteria we just discovered is in red.

Michael

[Theresias]

FYI:

The 29 or 1A is the so called part number index (aka. color code)!

So to be more specific, the complete part number os 3D0 959 933 F 029.

Understood?!

[chrisj428]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

I can't recall if the windows "express up" - meaning, once they start to move, you can let go of the button - or if you have to hold the button on the key fob depressed until the glass has reached the fully open or fully closed position. I am pretty sure that the windows "express down", which is why the German owners wanted to turn this feature off - the car will get flooded if you hold the unlock button too long when it is raining out.

I neglected to add that there doesn't seem to be an "express" component when using the remote to raise or lower the windows. Release the button, and the activity stops. (Same behavior as on the Euro spec Phaeton I had at the GTG.)

Additionally, when opening, everything opens together. When closing, the windows close first, then the sunroof. I'm going to guess this was on purpose in order to allow you to leave the roof open a smidge for ventilation purposes. (That hasn't been corroborated anywhere, but it's my story and I'm sticking to it! )

[PanEuropean]

Did you watch the cat video?

Michael

[chrisj428]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Did you watch the cat video?

Oh yeah! Had seen it once before & forgotten about it. I'm sure PETA, the SPCA, the ACLU, the NRA and a veritable plethora of alphabet soup-labelled, tub thumping, well---you get the rest, would just come unhinged were that shown in the US as a proper ad.

Was trying to figure out at what point they cut over to something non-living to finish the sequence...

[WISVW]

I would be more excited about this whole post IF my key fob worked from more than 2 feet away! As it is I might as well just stick the key in the door and do all this.

[Verist1]

Christian...

[PhaetonChix]

Oh, Christov. I trained with him. Poor guy, he got hit bad by the hurricanes.

[PanEuropean]

Hi Glen:

The key fob should work from one car length away from the car in just about any direction. If it does not do that, then there is a problem.

If you find that yours does not work from one car length away, please start a new post, and we can get to work on it. The only reason I suggest that you start a new post about this is that you have mentioned a topic that deserves to have its own post, rather than getting lost in the middle of this thread.

Michael

[joako]

Quote, originally posted by Theresias »

FYI: The 29 or 1A is the so called part number index (aka. color code)! So to be more specific, the complete part number os 3D0 959 933 F 029. Understood?!

The North American version of ETKA lists only 01A, 013, 014, 019. If anyone wishes I can post the listing of PR codes that the parts catalog indicates corresponds with each of the modules.

The controllers ending in E are listed as being installed in cars in which the last 11 digits of the VIN are up to 3D-4-009 474, and the controller ending in F is listed as being in cars where the last 11 digits are from 3D-4-009-475

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Did you watch the cat video? Michael

I dont think that is possible. Every car I have owned will reverse the windows if there is an obstruction (try it -- put your arm in the window and roll it up. It wont hurt. I am not being sarcastic). I assume the same behavior applies to the sunroof.

[PanEuropean]

Hi Andrew:

Welcome back, it's always much appreciated by all when you contribute your technical expertise to the Phaeton forum.

It does seem that the controllers with the 29 Part Number Index are showing up in North America. I am of the understanding that this 29 index was cut into production in about January of 2005.

I am in the midst of preparing a spreadsheet with all Phaeton PR numbers - sort of a giant PR decoder - so, if you could supply information that correlates the PN index with the various PR numbers, that would help to shed some more light on this mystery.

As for the cat video - it was an animation, and Ford took a lot of heat from the cat-lovers out there when this proposed (but not approved) commercial got out into the internet world. Personally, I hate cats, I'm allergic to them, so I think it's funny as heck.

Michael

[chrisj428]

Quote, originally posted by joako »

I dont think that is possible. Every car I have owned will reverse the windows if there is an obstruction (try it -- put your arm in the window and roll it up. It wont hurt. I am not being sarcastic). I assume the same behavior applies to the sunroof.

Not so much about the window reversal. I had an 88 Subaru GL-10 Turbo FTAWD wagon with "electro-pneumatic suspension" (!) that had an auto up & down driver window you could use to slice salami.

[joako]

PR numbers present when controller 3D0 959 933 F 014 is installed:

PR numbers present when controller 3D0 959 933 F 019 is installed:

PR numbers present when controller 3D0 959 933 F 01A is installed:

PR numbers present when controller 3D0 959 933 F 031 is installed:

3D0 959 933 E 05M was replaced by 3D0 959 933 F 01A
3D0 959 933 E 05J was replaced by 3D0 959 933 F 019
3D0 959 933 E 04K was replaced by 3D0 959 933 F 014
3D0 959 933 E 04G was replaced by 3D0 959 933 F 013

Michael: The version of ETKA I have will give you a complete list of PR numbers and their descriptions (it is the same dialog box as I have posted above) if you input the VIN. If this could be of any help to you, please let me know.

--Andrew

[PanEuropean]

Hi Andrew:

Thanks very much for posting those screenshots. That is a much nicer version of EKTA than what my Swiss or Canadian dealer has. They have a similar system, but it does not produce as "easy to read" a screenshot - I have reproduced a sample, below, of what they have.

I looked over the 4 photos you posted above, and it appears to me that the 5 different controller 'part number indexes' (01A, 012, 014, 019, and 031) are incremental upgrades in the software within the controller. The only thing we know "for sure" so far is that if you have a controller with the index number 031, then you can enable and disable control of the windows via the key fob with a single action - adaptation channel 25.

We also know that changing adaptation channel 25 is not sufficient to enable remote window control with the key fob if you have part number index 012, this thanks to Uberanalyst's research with his car, which has the F suffix controller at 012 status (you can see this from the controller report of his car, about the third report down at this post: VAG-COM Controller Lists from Phaetons). So, we now need to find Phaetons that have part number indices 14 and 19, and see if the adaptation channel 25 change will work on them. That will allow us to define the cut-in index number for this capability.

* * * * * * * * * *

On a related, but slightly different topic: The W12 Phaetons sold in North America have a different part number for controller 46, the Central Comfort Controller. For example, my Phaeton has 7L0 907 719 at software revision 0020, instead of the 3D0 959 933 part. Before you made your post above with the screenshots that show the presence of a tow-away sensor in the 3D0 part (see the '7AL' production code description), I thought this was because the 7L0 part has the tow-away sensor in it, and the 3D0 part did not. But, now I can see that the 3D0 part does have tow away protection, and as a result, I am now totally perplexed as to why the W12's have the 7L0 part in them.

Andrew, could you perhaps research the 7L0 907 719 part, and let us know what the different revision history of this part is - most especially any change in part number suffix, or index number? Also, if you could post one of those screen-shots for the 7L0 907 719 part, I would be very grateful.

What type of vehicle uses parts that start with 7L0? That is a new prefix to me.

Michael

What I see at my dealership

[joako]

Michael:

They should have the same version of ETKA, if not newer. Next time you are at the parts counter, have them double click on the part number and click on the icon of a car with a question mark under "Additional Info:" and the same screen should come up. I don't know where you got that particular picture from, but I have never seen such a screen before.

Part number 7L0 907 719 is "control unit for immobilizer" and according to ETKA is installed in cars with the following PR code:

EDW anti-theft protection system
-7AL anti-theft alarm system, passenger compartment control. backup horn and towing protection.

There are no color codes or any further information for this part number listed in ETKA.

What might be possible is that the "central electronic control unit for comfort system," which I think should be present in all cars (if you give me a VIN number for a car for which the address 46 controller identifies itself as 7L0 907 719, I should be able to determine if both parts are installed) always has a tow sensor but it serves no purpose.

Browsing through ETKA most Touareg parts begin with 7L.

--Andrew

[PanEuropean]

Hi Andrew:

Thanks a bunch for researching that 7L0 907 719 controller that I have installed in my W12 Phaeton at controller address 46 (Central Comfort Controller). I have to admit that I am now totally confused as to why my Phaeton - and all the other W12's I have seen - have that part as the address 46 controller, rather than the 3D0 959 933 that all the Phaetons other than the W12 have.

Looking at the screenshots that you provided above, I see that 3D0 959 933 F 01A (the middle screenshot) also supports the EDW (7AL production code) anti-theft protection system, with the same three components - passenger compartment control, backup horn and towing protection.

BTW, 'backup horn' in this context means a second, supplemental noisemaker that the alarm uses instead of the vehicle horn. When I first read 'backup horn' some months ago, I thought it meant one of those beeping things that are on the back of forklifts and garbage trucks, to warn pedestrians that reverse gear has been selected. Not so. It means 'supplemental horn', rather than 'reversing horn'.

Michael

[PanEuropean]

Guess what!

I finally figured out why my Phaeton (a W12), along with David's W12 and quite a few of the other W12's I have scanned return a 7L0 907 719 controller part number at address 46, instead of a 3D0 959 933 controller part number.

It appears that this is due to a minor software glitch in the VAG-COM software. I have brought this to the attention of the folks at Ross-Tech, and they are working to fix it.

I found this out by reviewing the diagnostic scans I have made of my Phaeton over the past few months - below are snips from two scans, both are of my car, one shows a 7L0 part number, the other a 3D0 part number. This suggests that W12 owners who have a sufficiently high revision number on their Central Comfort Controller should be able to enable remote window operation with the key fob, in the same manner as described for the V8, above.

Michael

It's a VAG-COM glitch, I think

My Phaeton, one day
Address 46: Central Conv.
Controller: 3D0 959 933 E
Component: 6P HSG 3212
Coding: 0000040
Shop #: WSC 00099
1 Fault Found:
01735 - Potentiometer for Mirror Adj. Horizontal: Pass. Side
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

My Phaeton, another day
Address 46: Central Conv.
Controller: 7L0 907 719
Component: Neigungssensor 0020
Coding: 0000000
Shop #: WSC 00000
1 Fault Found:
01735 - Potentiometer for Mirror Adj. Horizontal: Pass. Side
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

[spockcat]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

What type of vehicle uses parts that start with 7L0? That is a new prefix to me. Michael

LOL, you've been driving a TRUCK all along. 7L0 is for Touareg.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by joako »

3D0 959 933 E 05M was replaced by 3D0 959 933 F 01A 3D0 959 933 E 05J was replaced by 3D0 959 933 F 019 3D0 959 933 E 04K was replaced by 3D0 959 933 F 014 3D0 959 933 E 04G was replaced by 3D0 959 933 F 013

Hi Andrew:

Do you have any additional information about the status of the following controller: 3D0 959 933 E 6P ? That is the controller that is installed in my W12, and presumably in David's W12 as well. As I mentioned in the post above, it seems that a software error in VAG-COM was returning the wrong part number when polling address 46 on a W12. So, I am now curious to know if the 3D0 959 933 E 6P has been superceded by anything.

BTW, I got the first version of the production code list done - it is at this post: Understanding Phaeton Production Codes & Build Stickers. I'd appreciate your comments and criticism of it, if you have the time to look it over.

Michael