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    Thread: Haldex Upgrade

    1. 05-24-2005 12:16 AM #1
      I have a hanful of mods and Ive been contemplating the addition of the Haldex ECU uprgrade.. for those who have info on that i wanted to know the pros and cons of adding this unit and will it be a significant mod and will it improve my acceleration and handling... thanks

    2. Member Max Rebo's Avatar
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      05-24-2005 12:42 AM #2
      It'll improve handling at the limit, or on a road course or autocross course. For daily driving, it won't do a whole lot. IIRC, it transfers more torque to the rear wheels vs. the stock programming.
      Oddfellows Local 726

    3. 05-24-2005 03:06 AM #3
      Quote, originally posted by AreenR32 »
      I have a hanful of mods and Ive been contemplating the addition of the Haldex ECU uprgrade.. for those who have info on that i wanted to know the pros and cons of adding this unit and will it be a significant mod and will it improve my acceleration and handling... thanks

      Well from your list of mods it looks like your a driver but a list of mods does not tell the whole story because some like to spend money on their cars just to have the next cool thing or to say "i got a CAI or a turbo stage 5". My point is, regardless of your mod list...1) if you drive your car at 8/10 or above, buy the PP now. It is worth every penny. 2) if you do not drive your car at its upper spectrum than i would recommend save you cash for the next cool tail light or hot wheel that comes on to market.

      There is nothing wrong with doing those mods, but as we all know there are cosmetic mods.. and there are functional mods and there are mods that can do both. The Haldex PP is not a cosmetic mod whatsoever obviously. Its pure function. I drive my R like i have driven my miata for 12yrs. Hard and at its limit. So for me it is worth it, I enjoy it and it really makes the cars dynamics more to what I am needing. In simple terms.. the car just does what you want it to do better and faster.

      If I had my option....which I don't with a haldex... I would have a "super DCCD" that could throw it back to 100% rear if I so wished. No it is not possible and I am ok with this. What the PP does is give neutrality, controllabilty, over steer (especially in the wet) far beyond what stock haldex can do or was designed to do. My miata I oversteer all day when I drive it and grew up in a climate of snow driving rear wheel drive cars. So naturally I like more torque back there. For some who have come from an entire driving career of front drivers... it may be more than they want, and that is perfectly fine too.

      Improvement in acceleration and handling? yes
      Cons? I do not know personally of anything negative about this mod.

      I also have the H&R coilovers and RSB. That combined with the Haldex PP make what I believe is one of the best handling cars on the planet regardless of price. I do not feel this is an over inflated opinion either. Yes I have 241hp and there are dozens of cars that can do a 0-60 or 1/4 faster... but to me its all about feeling those tires at the edge of mechanical grip, knowing how the car will react when you take a set in an apex while going flat out at redline, clawing through a corner under slight drift with all 4 tires searching for optimum grip in milliseconds......working with the motor VW gave us as the heart, which is a damn DAMN good NA motor, and knowing the powerhouse Haldex and what it will do for you.. if you become its intimate friend and let it talk to you...let it perform like haldex knows it can do.

      The Haldex PP enhances this conversation so well it will either make you laugh out loud or bring a tear to your eye..... it has done both to me.


    4. Member Corrado RS's Avatar
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      06-01-2005 06:24 AM #4
      Awesome post!

      Knowing that our AWD system is dominantly FWD, I wonder if there are any negative effects on the system with this upgrade in the long term. Off to search I go...


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      06-01-2005 10:44 AM #5
      Quote, originally posted by Corrado RS »
      Awesome post!

      Knowing that our AWD system is dominantly FWD, I wonder if there are any negative effects on the system with this upgrade in the long term. Off to search I go...

      About the only negative I can think of would be fuel economy. But I'm sure if the rest of you drive like I do, you're not getting great gas mileage to begin with.
      --Chuck--


    6. Member fluevog's Avatar
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      06-01-2005 11:15 AM #6
      Quote, originally posted by speedbump2 »

      About the only negative I can think of would be fuel economy. --Chuck--

      Don't forget it totally voids your drive train warranty. This is the only thing holding me back on this mod.


    7. 06-01-2005 11:22 AM #7
      Quote, originally posted by Corrado RS »
      Awesome post!

      Knowing that our AWD system is dominantly FWD, I wonder if there are any negative effects on the system with this upgrade in the long term. Off to search I go...


      Good question. I asked the same one directly to Haldex. They told me (as we all know), any performance enhancing mod may put a little more wear on mechanicals but they have been running this PP in Europe for a long time with no problems whatsoever. This PP *easily* could have been OE on the R32 from the start. The same unit is being run in Group N Rally in Europe and is also on the WRC recce cars for Skoda and Ford and perhaps others.
      I am thoroughly enjoying the speed/aggressiveness of the PP and recommend it to anyone out there wanting to spice up the drive characteristics of their R.

      As for mpg? I have not noticed any change. When you are cruising, the PP acts the same as OE unit. So no difference. When you throw it down hard, thats when you get into the wonderful world of Haldex PP and you get a taste of what this spectacular powerhouse is all about.




      Modified by theblackboxx at 8:25 AM 6-1-2005


    8. 06-01-2005 11:42 AM #8
      Quote, originally posted by fluevog »

      Don't forget it totally voids your drive train warranty. This is the only thing holding me back on this mod.

      ?? Only if the PP was the *cause* of the failure would it void the warranty. I do not feel you can make a blanket statement like that IMO.


    9. 06-01-2005 12:00 PM #9
      Who's got the best deal on this right now and how easy is the install?

    10. 06-01-2005 12:12 PM #10
      Quote, originally posted by NY SLC 93 »
      Who's got the best deal on this right now and how easy is the install?


      $50 at EF1 Motorsports. Best place in the world.
      Give Fabrizio a ring!

      Fabrizio has done all my mods. H&R coilovers, CPP control arms,
      Haldex PP, H&R RSB, BBS CHs. Perfect work always. They are the
      experts.

      Fabrizio Aldrette
      2675 Dawson Avenue
      Signal Hill, CA 90755
      562-424-3378
      fabrizio@ef1motorsports.net



    11. Member Henman's Avatar
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      06-01-2005 12:36 PM #11
      $50 off, I assume, right? I better call right now if their selling it for only $50.

    12. 06-01-2005 12:40 PM #12
      Quote, originally posted by henman5000 »
      $50 off, I assume, right? I better call right now if their selling it for only $50.

      $50 is EF1's labor for the PP instal.
      EIP sells the Haldex PP. Give Rich a ring


    13. Member fluevog's Avatar
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      06-01-2005 01:02 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by theblackboxx »

      ?? Only if the PP was the *cause* of the failure would it void the warranty. I do not feel you can make a blanket statement like that IMO.

      The reason I mentioned that was do to my Service Manager stating that the HPP would void the drive train warranty (no matter if it was the cause of the problem or not). Simular to installing the EIP Stage 1 or Vortech Super Charger.


    14. Member GR32's Avatar
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      06-01-2005 01:08 PM #14
      I heard the HPP is undetectable.

      If a big problem arises, swap it back w/ the orig.

      IMO it shouldn't void the warranty b/c at no point is more power being sent to the rear....just under different parameters....but I'm sure srvc mgrs have different opinions.


    15. Member Daemon42's Avatar
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      06-01-2005 01:23 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by GR32 »

      IMO it shouldn't void the warranty b/c at no point is more power being sent to the rear...

      Actually...
      This is the graph that Haldex and Evolve came up with to show what HPP does.

      ian


    16. 06-01-2005 01:41 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by GR32 »
      I heard the HPP is undetectable.

      If a big problem arises, swap it back w/ the orig.

      IMO it shouldn't void the warranty b/c at no point is more power being sent to the rear....just under different parameters....but I'm sure srvc mgrs have different opinions.

      The different parmeters of the HPP send more torque to the rear under similar circumstances than the stock unit is capable of doing (as a percentage of available torque), thus voiding the drivetrain warranty because its installation and use can easily be seen as a secondary or contributing cause to drivetrain problems....


    17. 06-01-2005 01:45 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by speedbump2 »
      About the only negative I can think of would be fuel economy...

      The HPP unit still allows the same transfer of the driveline to the front wheels under cruise conditions which allow the same fuel economy as stock.

      We have the units in stock and they usually ship the same day. Click here to use our online purchasing site. Use coupon code vortex10 to receive an immediate 10% discount.

      -Rich


    18. Member fluevog's Avatar
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      06-01-2005 02:18 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by mysmoothblue32 »

      The different parmeters of the HPP send more torque to the rear under similar circumstances than the stock unit is capable of doing (as a percentage of available torque), thus voiding the drivetrain warranty because its installation and use can easily be seen as a secondary or contributing cause to drivetrain problems....

      Your probally right. My Service Manager is most likely just trying to scare me away from it. My dealer isn't to keen on mods.


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      06-01-2005 02:43 PM #19
      how does ti transfer more torque? no matter what its still a 50/50 split max speed wise. if the front wheels were slipping the rear would get 100% torque reguardless of the controller right? how is this different.. i always thought the controller just reacted and locked (50/50) faster and more often
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    20. Member Daemon42's Avatar
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      06-01-2005 02:49 PM #20
      Thing is, stock Haldex rarely uses 100% lock. It's progressive and only
      transfers as much torque to the rear as it thinks it needs to.
      Look at the graph above. The engine load varies the same but
      HPP transfers more torque to the rear in the same situations.
      Specifically HPP reacts more quickly to a rising load curve (mashing on
      the gas for instance) and gets to its peak torque transfer sooner.

      ian


    21. Member so gti's Avatar
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      06-01-2005 02:50 PM #21
      i can get you one under $700. IM me

    22. 06-01-2005 03:05 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by fluevog »

      Your probally right. My Service Manager is most likely just trying to scare me away from it. My dealer isn't to keen on mods.

      I think most VW service managers know very little about the Haldex PP and what it is all about. They look at is just another mod not really understanding it is a genuine Haldex part designed to integrate perfectly with the existing drivetrain in the R32.


    23. 06-01-2005 03:09 PM #23
      I'm sitting on the fence with this one. I've read a Post on Tyresmoke that an even more aggressive PP version *may* soon be available, but I haven't been able to find any specifics

      What I'd really like to see is a Haldex contoller that would allow the driver to change the parameters 'on the fly' from within the cabin


    24. 06-01-2005 03:11 PM #24
      I have also read that rumour elsewhere, but then I think they still have problems getting a hold of a regular HPP unit over there.

    25. 06-01-2005 03:15 PM #25
      Quote, originally posted by TXBDan »
      how does ti transfer more torque? no matter what its still a 50/50 split max speed wise. if the front wheels were slipping the rear would get 100% torque reguardless of the controller right? how is this different.. i always thought the controller just reacted and locked (50/50) faster and more often

      The OEM Haldex controller is based on a reactive method of power transfer, basically it waits to see increased engine load and power to begin transferring additional power to the rear wheels.

      The HPP is pro-active and uses the Throttle Body input to command more of its decision to transfer power based on the expected onset of power. As you can see from the chart Ian posted, power transfer actually occurs in advance and much more rapidly and more altogether than with the stock controller.

      BTW: As a direct Haldex Distributor we offer a full one year warranty with each unit that we ship.

      -Rich


    26. 06-01-2005 03:17 PM #26
      Quote, originally posted by TXBDan »
      how does ti transfer more torque? no matter what its still a 50/50 split max speed wise. if the front wheels were slipping the rear would get 100% torque reguardless of the controller right? how is this different.. i always thought the controller just reacted and locked (50/50) faster and more often

      It is very noticeable when your really flogging it hard. I was laughing out loud when I did my first canyon run. It is very entertaining and gives you more of a rear drive dynamic feel. No your not going to get all crossed up on dry tarmac, but it does lend quite a bit of torque to the rear end & imo makes the car far more sporting and fun to drive. For me thats why I bought the car in the first place. Its a car to drive.

      The OE unit does the job....but it is practically invisible. It is very seemless/progressive. The PP gives it to you *right now* and predicts
      this very very fast when your toes go down to the metal quickly. I FEEL it when it is back there. Its a hoot!


    27. 06-01-2005 03:46 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by theblackboxx »

      It is very noticeable when your really flogging it hard. I was laughing out loud when I did my first canyon run. It is very entertaining and gives you more of a rear drive dynamic feel. No your not going to get all crossed up on dry tarmac, but it does lend quite a bit of torque to the rear end & imo makes the car far more sporting and fun to drive. For me thats why I bought the car in the first place. Its a car to drive.

      The OE unit does the job....but it is practically invisible. It is very seemless/progressive. The PP gives it to you *right now* and predicts
      this very very fast when your toes go down to the metal quickly. I FEEL it when it is back there. Its a hoot!

      Exactly ... and because it will divert the torque back to the FRONT when the rear wheels begin to break loose, it is relatively safe when compared to a rear drive car... oh yeah, keep the ESP off!


    28. 06-01-2005 03:54 PM #28
      Quote, originally posted by Back2Dubs »
      I'm sitting on the fence with this one. I've read a Post on Tyresmoke that an even more aggressive PP version *may* soon be available, but I haven't been able to find any specifics

      What I'd really like to see is a Haldex contoller that would allow the driver to change the parameters 'on the fly' from within the cabin

      I have spoken at length with Haldex about options and possible new versions, etc. There will be no more aggressive version available, the HPP is as aggressive as possible without compromising the reliability of the transfer case and the rest of the driveline.

      -Rich


    29. 06-01-2005 04:50 PM #29
      Quote, originally posted by mysmoothblue32 »

      Exactly ... and because it will divert the torque back to the FRONT when the rear wheels begin to break loose, it is relatively safe when compared to a rear drive car... oh yeah, keep the ESP off!

      Oh yes. ESP --> OFF <--- when its time to play! During normal driving leave it on for safety.

      My suspension is pretty firm (H&R coilovers) so when that shift takes place from front to rear ...and then back to front....I really sense it in my butt, back and hands. It keeps the car SO neutral. I have tried to upset it... but its better than me. Just when I think I got the upper hand it does yet another "haldex twitch", redirects the torque and laughs at me saying... "thats all you can do??". Being cautious...in the slippy/wet you can get nice drifts with spinning rubber at all 4 corners.


    30. 06-01-2005 10:20 PM #30
      Quote, originally posted by eiprich »

      I have spoken at length with Haldex about options and possible new versions, etc. There will be no more aggressive version available, the HPP is as aggressive as possible without compromising the reliability of the transfer case and the rest of the driveline.

      -Rich

      Rich,

      Any chance they'll be offered again in the plain aluminum finish instead of painted blue?


    31. 06-01-2005 10:58 PM #31
      Quote, originally posted by LYKUNO »

      Rich,
      Any chance they'll be offered again in the plain aluminum finish instead of painted blue?

      I do not believe so...this was a special deal we had arranged with Haldex for the first shipments only.

      We will however beat most any other advertised price by at least $10...as long as it is from a legit source and a bona fide offer.

      -Rich


    32. 06-01-2005 11:03 PM #32
      Is that $679 deal still out there? I may have a job soon & would jump on that!

    33. 06-01-2005 11:05 PM #33
      Quote, originally posted by MIMDesign »
      Is that $679 deal still out there? I may have a job soon & would jump on that!

      Not familiar with that deal

      -Rich


    34. Member rabbitgtibbar's Avatar
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      06-01-2005 11:09 PM #34
      I think it was an Arizona area only group buy.
      Descartes thoughtlessness was the bane of his existence.

    35. 06-01-2005 11:11 PM #35
      It was from SPP, but I think they are out. Oh well, I guess the search will continue....

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