J367 Battery Monitoring Controller Replacement (Includes RVU TB 27-06-02) [TOC, Photos done]

[PanEuropean]

No. If you want to test or analyze the battery, disconnect the two cables that connect the battery to the car (disconnect the negative one first, and reconnect the negative one last), then connect your tool directly to the battery terminals.

Note that if you disconnect and reconnect the two batteries one at a time (in other words, you don't have both disconnected at once), the car won't "forget" everything and you won't need to re-adapt pinch protection, reset the steering angle sensor, etc.

Michael

[brosen]

I have a basic question (sorry about that ), reading the specifications for both of my batteries:

Driver Side:
P/N: 000 915 105 CE
SPEC: 12V 92 Ah AGM - 850A EN/SAE - 520A (DIN)

Passenger Side:
P/N: 1J0 915 105 AD
SPEC: 12V 92Ah AGM - 540A EN/SAE - 330A (DIN)

What is the meaning of all the numbers ?, also some of my specs does not match what is being reported in the forum, are my P/N's the correct ones ?, please somebody could provide a brief explanation or direct me to, where to understand all the numbers and what is their meaning.

The reason for my questions is that I just bought the Argus AA500P Battery Analyzer, and I do not know which value I should enter as the "Rating Value or Cold Cranking Amps (CCA)" the information in the batteries is the following

Battery 1:
12V 92Ah - 850A EN/SAE - 520A (DIN)

Which value I should use to set the CCA parameter in the analyzer 850A or 520A ?, 850 if using SAE or 520 if using DIN ?

Battery 2:
12V 61Ah - 540A EN/SAE - 330A (DIN)

Which value I should use to set the CCA parameter in the analyzer 540A or 330A ?, 540 if using SAE or 330 if using DIN ?

Thanks


Modified by brosen at 7:20 PM 8-22-2009

[brosen]

I understand the Left Battery is AGM type, the one on the right side (starter) is WET type ?, thanks

[brosen]

Michael, it was not necessary to disconnect the battery from the terminals prior to connect the Battery Tester/Analyzer ?, from the photo it looks like the tester was just connected on top ?, thanks

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by brosen »

...from the photo it looks like the tester was just connected on top...

What photo?

[brosen]

[PanEuropean]

When that photo was taken, the OTHER battery was disconnected, therefore, there was (for electrical purposes) only one battery in the car. Hence no possibility of getting an inaccurate reading due to the presence of the other battery.

Michael

[brosen]

OK, I get it, I will plan on testing the Right battery out of the car and the Left one connected, I thought it was required to properly test the battery to have it fully disconnected from the car, thanks Michael

[brosen]

Maybe is possible to get Remaining Battery Life information from the "Measuring Blocks" for the Battery Charger (ECU #71) using VAG-COM or VAD ?, I checked it with VAD but there was no label, so it's hard to tell, I'll check it with VAG-COM later


Modified by brosen at 1:28 PM 8-23-2009

[PanEuropean]

No, that information cannot be determined with a diagnostic scan tool.

[ilanna1]

Michael, we have a2004 V8 Phaeton with the exact problems you described in 6/05. We also get "consumer electrics is shutting off," the a/c goes out regularly, key fob works intermittently, and alarm has recently been going off with various permutations of the doors locking or not. We replaced the Left battery, again, 2 weeks ago but not with a gel battery and it got worse. Sluggish starting then it basically died and key got stuck in ignition, would not start at all. However, dealer says the software is up to date. They say we must purchase another $350 battery (including labor) in order for them to do any diagnostics. Any ideas???

[PanEuropean]

Hi Tricia:

Ask the dealer to give you a printout of the diagnostic scan of the vehicle. This will allow you to determine (independently) what the software versions of the various controllers are. Once you get that report, let us know here and we can all help you out from that point on.

Michael

[ilanna1]

I will ask for the printout. I asked them to tell me the specific software version (a, b, or c) last week and the manager had no idea what i was talking about. They say it's ready and, after replacing the Left battery, can find no problem. Should I return it after a little while and ask them to recheck the voltage and charge on the battery like you did back in 05 or 06?

[PanEuropean]

Hello Again Tricia:

I think you should persist and ask them to tell you what the software version (in this particular case, the part number suffix) of the battery monitoring controller (controller 71) is in your car.

It is not difficult at all to determine this, the software version and the complete part number (along with all sorts of other information) appears on the diagnostic scan report whenever the VW technician does a scan of the car. Normally, a complete diagnostic scan is done every time the vehicle is in for service.

Below is a photo of a printout created by a VW diagnostic scan tool that shows the software version (in this case, 2600) and the part number with suffix (in this case, 'B') for a battery management controller on a Phaeton.

There is a technical bulletin out that notes that controllers with suffix B (which corresponds to software 2600, because this particular controller cannot be flash-updated in situ) are unsatisfactory, and need to be replaced with a controller having a part number suffix ending in either C or D (there is no difference between the two replacements). Suffix A controllers were never installed on cars imported to North America.

Hope this information assists you.

Michael

[PanEuropean]

The part number and suffix is clearly visible on the controller itself (see the pictures on the first page of this discussion), but it is not possible to look at the controller when the left battery is installed in the vehicle, because the controller is behind (outboard of) the left battery.

Michael

[ilanna1]

Hi Michael. First, we picked up the car Saturday and before I got home (30 minutes) the a/c had shut off again and the "consumer electrics is turning off" again. Happened all weekend. They commented that we should drive it more often and to make sure we lock the vehicle everytime we exit. Neither of those are issues: we always lock it and drive it daily. 2) I got the printout, it says "Battery regulation 3D0915181D" the dealer number, then 2800, then "0 fault detected." From what I can ascertain, that means software version D, which should be satisfactory, right? 3) The paperwork says, "dead accy battery. tested starter battery and terminal was loose. tried to charge aftermarket battery and will not take charge, faulty battery...replaced accy battery....system is all ok...used GFF to erase all faults...set readiness code...tested vehicle for battery drain for several hours over 2 days...all operates to design and intent..."

Before we took it to them, as I told you, we had put in a Left battery from another mechanic. So I understand the Left side battery needed to be replaced again, but i'm not clear on what the situation was with the starter battery. Perhaps the loose terminal was the only problem with it, but dealership doesnt say.

Also, it's not sounding like they have any idea what's going on. We gave them the Technical Bulletin to refer to. Something is draining our Left side (i think) battery and/or the car is not charging it properly while it's being driven, right? Is there any other explanation????

Your patience and help is appreciated,

Tricia

[remrem]

Michael,

I noticed earlier in this thread (10/07) that Ilanna mentioned:

"We replaced the Left battery, again, 2 weeks ago but not with a gel battery and it got worse..."

I know that the OEM battery is an absorbed glass mat type, and when I read this I was wondering is it possible that they may have just installed the incorrect type of battery on the left side?

Regards,
Ron

[ilanna1]

when i say "gel" that's the terminology they use at the dealership, but yes, it means absorbed glass mat (AGM). However, the issue was already present, which is why we had to replace that battery in the first place. Here's the sequence: We bought the car in Feb 08, by Sept 08 the faults were so often we had to take it in to the dealer. They replaced the Left battery. Before we got home, the faults returned but we didn't take it back until Dec 08, when they replaced the battery Left again. The faults returned before we got home. Recently, in addition to the faults, we got all the other stuff I wrote in my first post, (sluggish starting, key fob issues, etc.) THAT's when we replaced the Left battery with the wrong one (not AGM). All was well for about 3 days, then all probs returned except it wouldn't start and key got stuck. Now we're at the dealership who replaced Left battery again with AGM and tightened up a loose STARTER battery terminal. However, before we got home, faults returned.

[ilanna1]

Hi Michael again. I've noticed there haven't been any more replies about my quandry. In case anyone's interested, as a follow up regarding my Phaeton with the multiple electrical faults and apparent electrical issues: they changed the battery, which did not work. They changed a relay, which did not work. They changed the controller panel, which did not work. Today they are changing the alternator. Anyone with any ideas???

[Jxander]

Tricia:

Boy have they been throwing parts at your problem. I hope some of this has been covered under warranty. An alternator failure is pretty easy to diagnose so I don't understand a replacement at this point in their quest. If it was the source of the problem, why was it not the first part replaced? Oh well, if they keep replacing parts I guess they'll eventually solve the problem.

It seems like you are having low voltage problems but the classic cures such as battery replacement, charge controller, that Michael has chronicled, and such have not done it. What about a faulty ground somewhere? A bad ground would give all kinds of electrical problems, even when all other componens in the electrical system are OK. A look at th electrical wiring diagrams would give a tech info to determine the most likely locations for a bad ground.

Good luck.

[ilanna1]

Hello. The battery was under warranty, labor not. They say everything so far is also under the "certified pre-owned warranty", but we'll see. Also highly troubling: rental car NOT covered. So we're missing the very things the designer of this car made it for and why we bought it - unparalleled leg (baby seat) room and traveling comfort. We're squeezing our baby seat into our little sports car for the hours long trips we have to make. Very annoying.
I agree about the alternator, hard to imagine it got missed during all those battery replacements. They said they followed the wiring diagram from front to back looking for any wires moved or disconnected or otherwise aberrant, and found nothing. I assume that would cover finding a faulty ground but I guess not necessarily??? Thanks for the input and keep 'em coming!!!

[Zaphh]

Quote, originally posted by ilanna1 »

Hello. The battery was under warranty, labor not.

Ouch... You should ask them how long it will take them to change the alternator, as I seem to remember that on some engines (W12 ? V8 ?) it may be necessary to remove the engine to get access to the alternator...

P.

[PanEuropean]

It is only necessary to remove the W12 engine to change the alternator.

Michael

[ilanna1]

Well so far they think the alternator has "solved the charge problem." But I have to write about the comedy of errors now. I'm not complaining, just laughing at this point. Hopefully it stays that way: apparently a shaft that covers the wires attached to the trunk, near the rear windshield, dislodged during their repair work from repeatedly opening and closing the trunk. The shaft somehow slid down and cracked the rear windshield, which is now having to be replaced, in addition to the harness and the shaft for the wires.

[PanEuropean]

Ah yes, the "trunk wiring harness breaks rear window" snag - for more information, see this post: Broken Sleeve on Electrical Harness leading to Trunk Lid - How to fix?.

Although I am loathe to ever criticize individual dealership service departments, I am beginning to think that perhaps the staff at your VW dealership are not especially familiar with Phaetons.

When you pick up your car - after the rear window and the trunk wiring harness have been replaced - be certain to function-check the following items before you even leave the dealership parking lot. All of these items can be, uh, 'screwed up' in the process of replacing either the back window or the trunk wiring harness:

Pertaining to the rear window replacement
1) Radio reception - both FM and AM.
2) Navigation System - make sure it picks up the satellites and determines the correct location of your car.
3) Rear window electric heat - put the car in the shade (out of the sun), start the engine, turn on the rear window defrost, then check the glass either with your hand or (far better) with an optical thermometer that the dealership can provide, to ensure the window heat is working correctly.

Pertaining to the trunk wiring harness replacement
1) Remote unlocking of trunk (from driver door switch) works
2) Remote unlocking of trunk (using key fob) works
3) If you have a power-lifting trunk lid, unlocking of trunk by pressing VW logo works.
4) If you have a power-lifting trunk lid, closing trunk lid by pressing button on lower edge of trunk lid works.
5) Start engine, turn on lights, check that all four red 'running' lights at the rear of the car work.
6) Place transmission in reverse, confirm both backup lights work.
7) Press on brake pedal, confirm that brake lights work (symmetrically).
8) Check that turn signals both sides work.
9) Ensure that there are no symbols in the display screen between the speedometer and tachometer indicating that bulbs are not operating.

Good luck with it all...

I do strongly recommend that you print out the contents of the discussion at this link: Broken Sleeve on Electrical Harness leading to Trunk Lid - How to fix? and give the document to your service manager before the dealership starts work on the trunk lid wiring harness replacement. Otherwise, given the batting average of your service department, they will probably install either the wrong wiring harness (there are two different part numbers), or, they will cross-wire the two identically coded wires in the harness, which will cause asymmetrical operation of the rear running lights.

Michael

[Jxander]

Michael:

You have done an excellent job of warning all of us on the forum regarding the trunk wiring apparatus failing and potentially breaking the rear window. Hopefully it will not happen on any of our watches. However, I think the time is right for you to issue a technical bulletin to VW mechanics so they will be aware of this hazard. Just kidding of course.

Another excellent example of the value of this forum to us. Thanks again to Michael and Chris for making this forum so great.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by Jxander »

I think the time is right for you to issue a technical bulletin to VW mechanics so they will be aware of this hazard.

That's actually a good idea. VW has a little weekly newsletter called "Tech Tips" that they distribute to all the technicians via the VW Intranet. I'll contact the authors and suggest that they include a tip about the Phaeton rear window and the trunk wiring harness.

All of us 'long-timers' in the Phaeton forum enjoy an excellent and mutually respectful working relationship with VW - both VW Dresden and VW of America - so, it's a good thing when we can occasionally return favours to them. VW certainly helps all of us in the forum out (behind the scenes, of course) quite a bit.

Michael

[ilanna1]

Yes, this forum is great. It's nice that you all seem reputable and reasonable so that when I do pass tips on VW mechanics, I don't feel quite as much like a ding-dong who just found any old blog on the internet that I'm using to harass them with. It's great that the forum directs us to the technical bulletins, has diagrams, etc.

[zenmoused]

Just came across this thread since I'm having similar problems, and I'm wondering if there is any update as to whether replacing the alternator was the solution?

For mine, the fresh air fan intermittently does not turn off with the ignition, which causes low voltage of the convenience battery after a few minutes. This leads to the alarm system going off if I lock the car, the inability to unlock the car with key fob, losing most settings such as clock and seats, and a "please start engine" notice every time I start the car, requiring a left-pause-right key turn to start. My Phaeton is out of warranty so I tried a few things before bringing it in. Tried pulling two fuses as documented in another thread, no luck. Pulled the battery and brought it to AutoZone to test/recharge. Tested fine, now charged 100% (it was completely drained), but after reinstallation I still get all of the same symptoms, as if there isn't enough voltage. My battery gauge reads 14v as usual.

I'm going to check the controller later today to see if it's the "B" version. Otherwise, I'm hoping it's not a fan controller issue, I hear those are deep in the heart of the car- lots of labor to replace. Any thoughts anyone?

EDIT
Just checked, and I indeed have the "B" controller. Any idea of whether or not this could possibly be the problem? Also, if this is a known problem that prompted a part revision and a TB, would VW replace this for free even though I'm past warranty?

Brian

[PanEuropean]

...the fresh air fan intermittently does not turn off with the ignition...

Brian:

In the above statement, do you mean the radiator fans at the front of the car? It is very normal for them to run occasionally after the engine is turned off. This is common behavior on all modern cars, not just VW products.

...which causes low voltage of the convenience battery after a few minutes. This leads to the alarm system going off if I lock the car, the inability to unlock the car with key fob, losing most settings such as clock and seats, and a "please start engine" notice every time I start the car, requiring a left-pause-right key turn to start.

Uh, how old is the left battery? It might simply be that the battery is at the end of its life. The manufacture date of the battery is stamped onto one of the battery posts (month/year). If it is older than 5 years, you are living on borrowed time. If it is older than 6 years, you should replace it with an identical VW battery (about $200).

Just checked, and I indeed have the "B" controller. Any idea of whether or not this could possibly be the problem? Also, if this is a known problem that prompted a part revision and a TB, would VW replace this for free even though I'm past warranty?

You might be able to coax a 'goodwill' offer out of VW, especially if you normally have your car serviced at a VW dealership. I suggest that if you have an old left battery (>5 years old), you get that battery replaced at the same time - the labour for removing and replacing the battery will be covered by the battery controller replacement campaign.

Be sure to also read this post, and pass this information along to the technician who does the work on your car (especially the information about not breaking the relay box mounting bracket): J367 Battery Monitoring Controller Replacement (Includes RVU TB 27-06-02)

Michael

[zenmoused]

Thank you Michael, you always are a great help. I looked up the part on 1stvwparts and it's only $72, so I think I'll try that first. Like I said, the battery tested fine for Autozone, and while I agree that 7 years is a little long in the tooth, I don't want to replace it for the sake of replacing it. Either way I need the new controller and it's easy enough to swap out- I'll let you know how it goes!

Brian

[zenmoused]

Well, finally replaced the battery control unit and the battery for good measure. Of course with a new, fully charged battery the car functions normally, however as soon as I turned her off I could hear the interior fans turning on and off (not the engine fan).

I guess it's time to bite the bullet and bring her in. Anyone else have this issue or have any other ideas for me to suggest to the dealership?

[laser21]

Michael, could you please reupload the photos of the first post? I know its a long time since you created this thread, but maybe you still have them.

Thanks, Lukas

[jyoung8607]

Michael, could you please reupload the photos of the first post? I know its a long time since you created this thread, but maybe you still have them.

Thanks, Lukas

Lukas,

I think Michael is working on doing that, but I think work keeps him pretty busy these days.

In the meantime, you can see the J367 controller pretty clearly in the battery replacement thread. The clearest picture is the second-to-last, labeled 3D0 915 181 D.

If you're wanting to know what version you have, you already have the latest revision D. All MY2006 cars should have the updated version, also, you can see it in the VCDS auto-scan you posted, address 71.

Jason

[PanEuropean]

Photos re-hosted.

Michael