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    Thread: Keyless Entry Issues (consolidated discussions) [TOC, Photos Done]

    1. Member
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      06-20-2005 01:47 PM #1
      I just wanted to share the fact that the button that locks my car that is on the exterior door handle (Keyless Entry option - is this confusing to anyone else? ) has been fixed once again.

      I first mentioned this issue in this thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...69301 near the bottom assuming there aren't any more posts in it. In the previous attempt they replace the seat control module and it resolved the issue. but after a while, it was not working again.

      The most recent effort, at a different dealer, was to replace the door handle and button. This seems to have worked. Of course I'm waiting for the other shoe to fall as in stop working again. I had already told the service writter that he didn't need to be concerned if he had to call and tell me the new handle didn't fix the problem. I really didn't think it would work. But so far so good.

      The new handle had to be painted and I don't thin the paint matches perfectly. However, sicne the handle does not match flush with existing body pannels (basically it meets at near 90 degrees with the door panel) I don't see this as an issue. When I compare front (the one replaced on passenger side) with rear, the paints look slightly different. But there is no way anyone else would notice ... except maybe you all reading here.

      Anyway, I'll keep you all posted as it sounds like others have experienced this issue as well.

      Last edited by PanEuropean; 04-11-2012 at 03:00 PM.

    2. 06-20-2005 03:49 PM #2
      I had to have the passenger door handle replaced also. I'm going to look more closely at the paint right now.

    3. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      06-20-2005 04:42 PM #3
      I have a similar problem with my keyless access system.

      On my Phaeton, I can unlock the car by touching any of the four door handles, but I can only lock it by pressing the buttons on the left (driver side) of the car. The front and rear locking buttons on the passenger side of the car don't work.

      This is really perplexing me. I tested the function of the buttons themselves, using a diagnostic scan tool. The two buttons on the left side both return a response when pushed. The two buttons on the right side do not return a response. But - it doesn't really make sense to me that the buttons don't work, while at the same time, the capacitance sensors (touch sensors) in the same door handle do work. The door handle is, after all, an integrated unit.

      I am corresponding with one of our "Phaeton Forum Friends" who works at a large automobile manufacturing facility in Dresden right now - in fact, I just sent an email out last night about this - we are trying to come up with a better (more precise) troubleshooting program that will allow us to determine exactly what the cause (and the appropriate solution) of the problem is. So far, neither the Phaeton technician at my dealer or I have done any disassembly work on my car - we don't want to start taking the car apart until we know exactly what component to go after.

      In the meantime, here is some information I have discovered so far that might help with the diagnostic process:

      The buttons themselves, and the Measured Value Blocks (MVB) that you use to determine if the button is responding to being pressed are as follows:

      E369 - driver door button, MVB group 1, field 4
      E370 - front passenger button, MVB group 7, field 4
      E371 - left rear button, MVB group 8, field 4
      E372 - right rear button, MVB group 9, field 4

      By using a diagnostic scan tool on address 46, the J393 Central Control for Comfort System, and looking at the above measured value blocks, it is possible to determine if the switch inside the push-button is actually functioning - in other words, responding to pressure when you push it. The results of this test on my car indicate that the two passenger side buttons are not responding to pressure. But - does that mean that the buttons are broken, or that the controller in the door is not recognizing that the buttons are being pushed? This is what I have not figured out yet, and what I am awaiting additional information for.

      I have attached a wiring diagram for the Access system - this is Phaeton wiring diagram 14. The buttons can be seen on tracks 35, 41, 47, and 54. But - I think there might be an error in this wiring diagram (probably an error that crept in during translation from German to English): If you look at tracks 35 and 54, they show the driver door pushbutton connecting to the driver door controller, and the right rear pushbutton connecting to the right rear controller - this much makes sense. But, tracks 41 and 47 show the front passenger door button connecting to the left rear door controller, and the left rear door connecting to the front passenger door controller. I think this might be a mistake, and I have a question in to VW about it. (Track numbers are the small numbers from 1 to 70 that appear across the bottom of the wiring diagram, almost like a footer. They allow you to refer to a precise spot on the diagram easily. Track 1 is the left-most vertical column on the first page, and track 70 is the right-most vertical column on the very last page).

      I have attached a copy of the wiring diagram - perhaps this might be useful to anyone who is trying to figure this problem out.

      One thing I have learned just from the three posts in this thread - George and I have W12's, and William has a V8, so at least the problem is not specific to one type of J393 comfort controller, because the V8's and the W12's use a different part number for the comfort controller. Let's continue to share information and experience in this thread - perhaps we can come up with a definitive answer and fix. I think this problem is causing VW to scratch their heads, too.

      Michael

      Attachment - wiring diagram for Keyless Access System

      Attached Files
      Last edited by PanEuropean; 04-11-2012 at 03:02 PM.

    4. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      06-21-2005 04:34 PM #4
      I have received more information about the problem with the pushbuttons on the exterior door handles that are used to lock Phaetons which are equipped with the keyless access option.

      The long and the short of it is as follows: If the pushbutton fails the function test described above (using the diagnostic scan tool, for example, a VAS 5051 or 5052), then the door handle must be replaced. Although the pushbutton and the capacitance sensor (touch sensor, used for unlocking) are integrated into the same component - the door handle - and are shown as the same component on the wiring diagram, the reality is that they are two different parts within the same assembly. This information has been sent out to the dealer network by VW in Europe. I don't know if it has yet made it through to the North American dealer network, though. Usually, VW writes up a technical bulletin about stuff like this - perhaps the bulletin will appear with the next revision of the electronic service manuals that the dealers are provided with.

      So - based on this information, I will be ordering two new door handles (right front and right rear) for my Phaeton, and my VW dealership will make arrangements to have them painted to match my car before they are installed. The door handles cannot be ordered pre-painted.

      I'm not too worried about paint matching concerns, primarily because of what Whealy said in his first post - the door handles fit at a 90° angle to the door itself, so any minor variations in the paint (e.g. reflection, etc.) won't be much different from what normally exists. Because this is not an urgent repair, I'm going to suggest to my VW dealer that they let the body shop take all the time they want to get the painting done. My car has Klavierlack clearcoat on it - there is a downloadable PDF that explains how to apply Klavierlack clearcoat in the field at this post: Black Piano Lacquer (Klavierlack).

      It is unfortunate that the whole door handle needs to be replaced - my guess is that must be an awfully expensive part. I was hoping that there would have been a simpler, easier way to fix it. When the job is done, I'll take lots of pictures, and post a write-up of the procedure here.

      Michael


    5. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      06-21-2005 04:48 PM #5
      For readers who may not be familiar with the part we are discussion, here is a picture of a Phaeton door handle from a car that has keyless access. The push-button is used to lock the car, in the same way that the push-button on the key fob is used to lock the car.

      Michael

      Phaeton Door Handle - Keyless Access Locking Pushbutton

      Last edited by PanEuropean; 04-11-2012 at 03:03 PM.

    6. 06-21-2005 08:19 PM #6
      Hm...my keyless access system has been acting sporadically as of yesterday. I couldn't open the doors/trunk or lock the doors by pressing the handle buttons (I tried all four doors). Today, the system failed to operate in the morning, but has been responsive in the afternoon. At first I thought it was a sensor failure, but then I realized that the keyless start module that I installed is still working fine (i.e. I can start the car by pressing the start button w/o any problems). I'm not sure whether the car has separate receivers to detect the key outside the car and inside the car (i.e. for when the key is placed in the trunk and it will not close), but when I tried the key in the trunk test yesterday, the trunk did close - I had to open it again manually w/ the door switch.

      Now, I'm afraid that maybe I did something incorrectly when I was installing the keyless start module that might have loosened a wire or something that operates the keyless entry system (which would explain why the system seems to work intermittently). I'm going to take my car to the dealer this friday on an unrelated matter, but I'm not sure whether I should bring up the matter up yet or research it some more.


    7. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      06-21-2005 10:33 PM #7
      Hi Agnos:

      The cause of your problem might be as simple as having a lot of other metallic objects in your pocket, along with your VW key. When you touch a door handle (or press the trunk lid button), the Phaeton sends out a RF signal to 'poll' for the presence of an authorized key. If you have a lot of coins in your pocket - or, if you have your VW key on a keychain with a lot of other metal keys - this can interfere with the reception of the RF signal by the key.

      When you are sitting in the car, the key is much closer to the antenna - there are several internal antennas, one is between the shift lever and the ashtrays (under the wood trim), another is just behind the sunroof control dial. For this reason, folks rarely report problems with detection of the key when they are inside the car.

      I keep my VW key in my 'other' pants pocket - by this I mean the pocket I don't keep coins in - and I don't have anything attached to my VW key such as a key fob or any other keys. I have never had any problems with my Phaeton detecting the key.

      Michael


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      06-22-2005 12:22 AM #8
      Quote, originally posted by agnos »
      Hm...my keyless access system has been acting sporadically as of yesterday. I couldn't open the doors/trunk or lock the doors by pressing the handle buttons (I tried all four doors). Today, the system failed to operate in the morning, but has been responsive in the afternoon.

      agnos,

      I don't think you unlock the doors using the buttons we are discussing here. Those buttons are dedicated to "locking" the doors. You unlock the doors by having a key within range of the Kessy antenna and "touching the door handle". And from my own experience, if you don't have the key within range of the antenna (i.e. out in the garage without the key) the locking buttons will not function.

      Hope I'm not oversimplifing what you are going though.


      Modified by whealy at 12:23 AM 6-22-2005


    9. 06-22-2005 01:44 PM #9
      Quote, originally posted by whealy »
      agnos,

      I don't think you unlock the doors using the buttons we are discussing here. Those buttons are dedicated to "locking" the doors. You unlock the doors by having a key within range of the Kessy antenna and "touching the door handle". And from my own experience, if you don't have the key within range of the antenna (i.e. out in the garage without the key) the locking buttons will not function.

      Oh, no, you misunderstand me. When the system fails to work, I can't open the doors (by placing my hand on the handle) nor lock the doors by pressing the button.

      Michael, I'm going to try removing extra keys from the same pocket as the car key...I usually carry a huge key ring on one pocket along w/ the car key (by itself), and a coin pouch on my other pocket. It hasn't been a problem so far, but it has been a year and maybe the key battery has been losing enough charge to affect range, but not enough to trigger the warning in the low battery warning in the console. I had also tried the same thing w/ my spare key, but when the system fails to work, it doesn't respond to either key.


    10. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      06-22-2005 05:29 PM #10
      Hi Agnos:

      I rather doubt that battery strength is the cause of the problems you have encountered. I'm just saying this to save you and your Phaeton technician time, so that you don't wind up focusing on the key fob battery when the real cause of the difficulty lies elsewhere.

      We have never had a report of a key fob battery wearing out here in the forum, and Phaetons have been on the road for about 20 months now in North America. I had a whole bunch of VW products with batteries in the key fob prior to my Phaeton - usually I had 3 year leases - and I never needed to have a key fob battery replaced.

      As was mentioned in another post somewhere, the Phaeton checks the voltage of the battery in the key fob every time the fob is used, and if any decline in battery voltage is noted, this will be reported on the Y24 display screen between the speedometer and the tachometer. If your Phaeton technician wants to observe what the key fob is reporting so far as battery condition is concerned, he or she can open the J518 Access and Start Control Module with a diagnostic scan tool (this is controller address 05), and look at Measured Value Block display group 6.

      Display group 6 reports the status of all the keys, in binary format. In other words, the first key shows up in the first of the 4 windows, the second key in the second window, and so forth. You will see an 8 digit binary code listed for each key. The binary bit on the extreme left (in other words, the first binary bit, if you read the group from left to right) is the status of the battery in that particular key fob.

      If I was troubleshooting your problem, based on what you have said here, this is how I would go about it:

      1) I'd hold all three key fobs about 6 inches from an exterior door handle, and then attempt to lock/unlock the car by pressing the lock button and then touching the inside part of the exterior door handle. Rationale: If the car responds successfully, then this rules out any problems with function or power supply to the whole keyless access system in the vehicle.

      2) If step 1 is successful, then I would put two of the key fobs well out of range of the car (at least 25 feet away), then walk around the car, trying to lock and unlock each door - and the trunk - while holding each key fob fairly close to the door handle, or in the case of the trunk, fairly close to the rear licence plate. I would then repeat this test with each of the other two key fobs. Rationale: This would allow me to determine if the problem is specific to one area of the car (e.g. left rear door), or specific to one key fob.

      3) If everything works fine during the tests in step 2, then I would scan the car for fault codes using a diagnostic scan tool. In particular, I would be looking for any 'intermittent' fault codes related to the keyless access system, for example, antennas not connected, etc.

      4) If nothing turned up in step 3, then I think the problem likely relates to how and where you have been carrying the key, which was discussed earlier in this thread. In other words, perhaps other objects in your pocket (other keys, keychains, coins, security access cards, other transponders such as gas station speed passes, etc.) may be preventing the Phaeton key from receiving and replying to the RF signal that is sent out by the Phaeton itself whenever you touch the car and ask it to unlock.

      Let us know how the troubleshooting process goes.

      Michael


    11. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      08-29-2005 01:45 AM #11
      Well - the two new exterior door handles for the passenger side of my Phaeton arrived at my dealership, and my dealer sent them out to the body shop to be painted. When exterior door handles are replaced, they always need to be painted first, because the part comes primed, not with the finish paint on it.

      The body shop that my VW dealer sublets paint work to - Oaktown Collision in Richmond Hill, Ontario - did a great job of painting the door handles. That was the easy part of the job. Replacing them was more complex than I thought it would be. My VW dealer allowed me to take some pictures of the process, hopefully this will be helpful to anyone else who has to have a door handle replaced, or needs to remove the inside trim panel from the door for any reason.

      Getting the trim panel off the inside of the door is not an easy job. It requires quite a bit of patience, use of the exact VW special tool for removing door panels, and following the instructions in the repair manual to the letter. It is one of those jobs that takes 2 hours to do the first time, and then 10 minutes to do the second and subsequent times. The photos below are not a complete description of every step in the process (refer to the repair manual for that), rather, they highlight some of the more complex steps in the process, and identify some of the unexpected surprises and minor problems that will arise during the removal process.

      Removing Interior Trim
      Some of the interior trim pieces need to be removed to gain access to bolts.

      A special VW tool is then used to loosen the fasteners that hold the interior panel on the door.
      The interior door panel has been removed already in this photo. But, if you have never done the job before, it sure helps to know what it is you are fishing for when you use this special tool.

      The part number of the special tool.
      DON'T attempt to take the door panel off unless you have this special tool, otherwise, you will break stuff inside.

      The fastener that holds the interior panel snugly against the metal door.
      The fastener is in the closed position in this photo. The trick is to fit the special tool into the location shown, and pop the fastener open.

      What the fastener looks like after you have successfully popped it open using the special tool.
      The challenge is that you are working 'blind', you can't see the fastener until you have removed the whole door panel. Note the difference between the fastener in the closed/locked position (photo above), and the fastener in the open position (photo below).

      Things that can go wrong.
      It's pretty easy to see that I started to remove the door panel at the upper rear corner - and finally became proficient at removing the fasteners as I worked around to the upper front. Note the following problems that I encountered:
      1) Fastener pops out of inside trim panel and stays attached to door.
      2) Fastener and fastener mount break off inside trim panel and stay attached to door.
      3) This shows what it looks like when it is done correctly - the fastener opens up, and releases completely from the door. It stays attached to the interior panel, as shown in the photo above.

      How the fastener fits into the door panel.
      Normally, it will not come out of the door panel during the door panel removal process. This photo just illustrates how the components are designed.

      If you break the fastener attachment off the interior door panel...

      ...You can glue it back on with cyanoacrylate glue.

      Finally, the door panel is successfully removed.
      Note the position of the 7 fasteners - it helps to know where they are when you are trying to pop them open.

      The bolts holding the door latch assembly are removed, the bolts holding the metal panel are removed, and the metal panel is held in place with a bungee cord.

      The door handle can then be removed.
      The repair manual suggests that this can be done without all the dis-assembly shown above. This would be true, if the little clip (arrow) was not present. It was impossible to get this clip off without removing the interior door panel.

      What the clips look like, when viewed from the inside of the door.
      You are looking at the forward part of the door handle, where the wire emerges from the door handle assembly. You just can't get these clips off - or the new ones on - without taking the whole interior of the door apart.

      A larger perspective of the two clips shown above.

      Where the vent hole is.
      Now that you know where the vent hole is for the locking pushbutton, try to avoid spraying high pressure water in this area when you wash your Phaeton.

      Last edited by PanEuropean; 04-11-2012 at 03:11 PM.

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      08-29-2005 09:00 AM #12
      As usualy, cool pics Michael. Yes, door trim fastners are notorious for breaking on removal. Glad to see VW at least has a tool to deal with this somewhat unusual fastners.

      On the plus side, my issue has been resolved sicne I opened this post.


    13. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      08-29-2005 10:55 AM #13
      I'm actually quite impressed with the clever design of the fasteners. It appears to be a very well engineered approach to holding the door panel in place, and best of all, if you push on the door panel, the fastener will tighten up automatically.

      I only wish that the VW repair documentation gave a better idea of what to expect when taking the door apart. As things stand now, it's almost inevitable that the first door panel someone takes off will suffer a few injuries during the learning process. I'm thankful that the broken parts can be repaired so easily.

      Michael


    14. Member Paldi's Avatar
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      11-19-2005 11:43 PM #14
      Michael,

      My front passenger door handle was replaced last month after the lock button failed.

      Recently, I'ved begun to hear noises apparently coming from inside the door when the car hits a sharp bump on the right side.

      Can you think of anything that could have come loose inside the door if the tech made a mistake during disassembly or assembly? Those two clips perhaps?


      Modified by Paldi at 3:47 PM 11-20-2006


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      11-20-2005 08:14 AM #15
      I'm having the same (or similar) noise problem in the right front door. It is often quite loud. The door (as far as I know) has not been disassembled since I've owned the car but may have been prior to my purchase.

      The noise seems to be related to cold weather. When its warm out, I don't hear it. The colder it is, the smaller the bump required to produce it. It is surprising loud.

      It is hard to tell exactly where it's coming from but it seems to come from the speaker area in the door. Can that small cover over the speakers be removed separately from the rest of the door panel? If removing that is simple, I would try it myself. I won't try removing the main door problem, I'll leave that job to VW.


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      11-26-2005 04:39 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by Paldi »

      Recently, I've begun to hear noises apparently coming from inside the door when the car hits a sharp bump on the right side. I'm going to inflate the tires with 40 pounds (from 34) to see if it gets worse.

      Have you figured this out yet? I still have a similar problem and it's getting worse. Can anyone tell me if and how I can take the little speaker cover off the right front door w/o disassembling the whole door?


    17. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-26-2005 08:01 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by car_guy »
      Can anyone tell me if and how I can take the little speaker cover off the right front door w/o disassembling the whole door?

      Hi Steven:

      Unfortunately, you can't take the speaker cover off by itself. There is no alternative to removing the entire door panel, as shown in the pictures above.

      If you have a rattle in the door, and if the door panel was removed once in the past (for example, to fix a keyless access problem, or to replace a speaker), then it is probable that the rattle is a result of a loose fastener in the door panel retention system that has fallen down to the bottom of the door.

      The door assemblies are probably the most complex assemblies on the whole car. If you (or a tech) are taking them apart, you have to be really meticulous to take lots of photos to document the process so you can refer to them when you re-assemble the door. You also need to have the exact correct door panel removal tool, and know how to use it. Even then, it is almost inevitable that you will break a few of the fasteners, which means you have to have a bit of glue ready to re-assemble them.

      I'm really not sure what suggestion to give you. When I brought my Phaeton into my VW dealer to get the door handles replaced, the Phaeton tech and I divided the work up - he did the disassembly, door handle replacement, and re-assembly, while I took all the photos (so we could refer back to them come re-assembly time) and I did the preparation work and gluing of the odd part that broke as the door panels came off. That way, when the technician was ready to put the door panel back on, I could give him a door panel that was fully inspected and prepared exactly as it was when it was first installed in Dresden.

      Michael


    18. 11-26-2005 08:43 PM #18
      Mine is in the shop once again, the keyless entry being on eof the issues. It works for about a week when it gets fixed, then no longer. It has done that since I bought the car new. None of the explanations posted here do not make sense as to why this keeps occurring. I only use one of the keys to the car, and I never switch keys, and I don't carry alot of keys or change.

    19. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-26-2005 09:48 PM #19
      David, what exactly is your problem - is it that the car does not unlock when you touch the door handle, or that it does not lock when you press the little button on the door handle?

      Michael


    20. Member Paldi's Avatar
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      11-26-2005 09:48 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by car_guy »

      Have you figured this out yet? I still have a similar problem and it's getting worse.

      Well, no. My car needs to get back to service for a look. The sound I am hearing can be described as a "CLACK" whenever the car goes over a recessed manhole cover or similar sharp bump on the right side. Sometimes it "CLACKS" twice - once for the right front tire and again for the rear. It sounds to me that it's coming from high up in the door, perhaps from the door handle area or its attached cable. It does not sound like something loose that was dropped into the depths of the door cavity.

      The sound got worse when I raised the tire pressure to 39 front/37 rear and when the shocks are in sport setting #2.. .


    21. 11-26-2005 11:14 PM #21
      My keyless entry has hardly ever worked on the passenger side or trunk lid. Only from the right side. They replaced the handle and painted it once. Within days it quit working again. It only works on the door if I have the key in my hand. The key fob unlock never works on the passenger side. The trunk only unlocks if I push on the VW logo with the keys in my hand. Sometimes it works if I approach from the driver side. It's been this way since June. I need to get it repaired again my next visit.

      I'm also missing a small "panel" on the bottom of the passenger mirror and my retractable steering wheel works occasionally. When it does, it makes the noise Michael wrote about some time ago. My passenger window binds sometimes. They looked at it once and said it was ok but this summer I had to spray some silicone on the window to keep it from chattering. Minor annoyances. I hope to get them repaired soon. Just hope I don't have to go through the regular routine of having to convince VW that they really should be repaired under warranty. The first time they repaired the door handle the service writer tried to resist the claim saying they must have caused the problem when they tinted the windows. I assured them it was the same window tinter the dealership uses and that obviously, the door was not disassembled. Finally, they agreed.

      Anyway, are we sure they door handle assemby being replaced (and repainted) is really the problem with this?

      /


    22. 11-26-2005 11:16 PM #22
      The second sentence should read "driver side" not "right side".

    23. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-26-2005 11:52 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by geowben »
      Anyway, are we sure they door handle assembly being replaced (and repainted) is really the problem with this?

      Hi George:

      The problem that requires door handle replacement is very specific: If water gets in behind the little button that is used to LOCK (not unlock) the doors, then the water will corrode the contacts of the switch, and there will be one of two outcomes - either the button will not work anymore, or, the contacts short out and the Kessy module does not go to sleep as it should.

      In my case, I guess the contacts corroded away, because I was unable to lock the car by pressing on either of the buttons on the passenger side. After much troubleshooting (mostly using a diagnostic scan tool to determine if the car was receiving a signal when the button was pushed - it wasn't), the Phaeton tech at my VW dealer decided to replace the door handles. This solved the problem.

      It seems that water can be forced into the vent for the button by some touchless car washes that use very high pressure water.

      Respecting your difficulties - that the car does not UNLOCK easily - my suggestion is that you use a diagnostic scan tool to examine several things:

      1) Strength of the battery in the key - bit 7 of what you see in the Group 006 measured value blocks for the Access and Start Control Module (controller 05). The four blocks in group 006 correspond to keys 1, 2, 3, and 4. Also, determine if you can lock / unlock the car from a distance with the buttons on the key fob. This will help you rule out the key fob as a culprit, when you are trying to pin down the source of the problem.

      2) Whether or not the door handle touch sensor is consistently recognizing when you touch the door handle. This is shown in MVB Group 004, with blocks 1 and 2 being the driver and front passenger door, and groups 3 and 4 being the left and right rear doors, respectively.

      3) Cycle Protection (Play Protection) Status for the door handle capacitance sensors - this is shown in MVB Group 009, the four blocks correspond with the same doors as Group 004.

      As for the trunk lid problem, perhaps have a look at the connections for the two antennas that are located behind the rear bumper. I've posted a picture showing the antennas below. It is possible that if the connections are not nice and tight and clean, the antenna might not be reporting the presence of the key. Some of the Touareg people have had problems with the rear antennas on the Touaregs after having driven their vehicles through water, or backed the truck into a lake to load or unload a boat. I doubt that is the cause of your problem, but perhaps a spray nozzle from a car wash might have the same effect.

      Another thought - this is kind of a long shot - is that the wiring bundle may have been squashed or damaged where it enters the spare tire well, if you have ever removed and replaced the spare tire, or if you keep other stuff in the spare tire well. As you can see in the photo below, the wires from these two antennas enter the spare tire well at the back, and if you lift up the floor inside the trunk, you can see the cable bundle running along the aft edge of the well, towards the left side of the car.

      Michael

      Location of Kessy Antennas on the back of the Phaeton

      Last edited by PanEuropean; 04-11-2012 at 03:13 PM.

    24. Member Paldi's Avatar
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      11-27-2005 12:00 AM #24
      Quote, originally posted by geowben »
      My key less entry has hardly ever worked on the passenger side or trunk lid. Only on the driver's side. It only works if I have the key in my hand.

      The key fob unlock never works on the passenger side.

      The trunk only unlocks if I push on the VW logo with the keys in my hand. Sometimes it works if I approach from the driver side.
      /

      My key less entry used to only unlock the driver's side doors. Everyone thought that was strange. Eventually my dealer fixed it by recoding something.

      All the doors lock when I press a lock button on any of the exterior door handle lock buttons. I try not to touch the rest of the door handle when I press the lock button, so I don't confuse it. As you know, if you grasp the door handle it will (or should) unlock all four doors. If you grasp the door handle and push the lock button on the door handle at the same time you *might* be confusing it somehow. Just a hypothesis.

      I always have the key in hand when opening the trunk. I press the trunk-unlock button on the key fob and then press the VW logo on the trunk to open it. Isn't that how you are supposed to do it?

      So, you are saying your key fob isn't transmitting its signal strongly enough unless it's in your hand?


      Modified by Paldi at 11:59 AM 3-2-2007


    25. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-27-2005 12:08 AM #25
      Quote, originally posted by Paldi »
      My key less entry used to only unlock the driver's side doors. Everyone thought that was strange. Eventually my dealer fixed it by recoding something.

      Whoa there - let's not confuse apples and oranges...

      I thin that the problem George is describing is this: He is having difficulty getting the car to recognize him if he tries to unlock it from the passenger side.

      What you referred to in the text I quoted above is an entirely different thing, that is the matter of what doors will unlock once the car recognizes you when you touch it. You have three possible choices that can be set by adaptation of the central comfort controller - driver door only will unlock, both doors on the driver side will unlock, or all four doors will unlock. However, this presumes that the car has no problems recognizing you when you touch any of the door handles.

      There is more information about how to set the coding to control the number of doors that unlock at this thread: Understanding Programming Options affecting door locking and unlocking. But, what we are talking about here (I think) is a problem with the car recognizing your desire to lock or unlock it in the first place - in other words, the door handles - either the push button used for locking, or the capacitance sensor used for unlocking - are not responding to touch.

      George, let me know if I have misunderstood you or not.

      Michael


    26. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-27-2005 12:14 AM #26
      Quote, originally posted by Paldi »
      I always have the key in hand when opening the trunk. I press the trunk-unlock button on the key fob and then press the VW logo on the trunk to open it. Isn't that how you are supposed to do it?

      On my car, which has a motorized trunk lid (it goes up and down by itself, using a little hydraulic mechanism to open and close the lid), all I have to do is press the VW logo on the trunk of the car - with the key in my pocket - and it opens.

      I believe (99%) that the cars that do not have the hydraulic powered lid do not have a push-button (microswitch) embedded in the VW logo either. On those cars, I think the only way you can open the trunk lid from the rear of the car is either by pressing the button on the key fob, or sticking the key blade into the lock and turning the key blade.

      Michael


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      11-27-2005 07:00 AM #27
      Quote, originally posted by Paldi »

      I always have the key in hand when opening the trunk. I press the trunk-unlock button on the key fob and then press the VW logo on the trunk to open it. Isn't that how you are supposed to do it?

      I have the tech package as well and I can open the trunk by using EITHER, but not needing both, of the actions you use. I.E., I can open it by pressing the logo on the trunk, with the key in my pocket. Or, by pressing and holding down the button on the fob for a couple of seconds. I've never had to do both to get it to open..


      Modified by car_guy at 7:02 AM 11-27-2005


    28. 11-27-2005 10:15 AM #28
      Michael, you understood it perfectly. I will try to look at some of the fixes and talk to the service tech when I take it in.

      If the water problem is what is causing it, won't it always be a problem? I'd hate to think I would have to get it repaired over and over. Is there another fix?
      Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. I am not one who goes crazy if a few things aren't working. The car continues to impress me. I recently went looking at some others and nothing seems to measure up. I am glad I purchased the extended warranty when I bought the car though.


    29. 11-27-2005 10:16 AM #29
      PS I don't think it is the key battery. Recently I got a low battery warning and replaced it.

    30. Member
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      11-27-2005 06:11 PM #30
      Your welcome. And I'm Steven.

      It's very comforting to find someone else that is perhaps as name-challenged as I am!


    31. 11-27-2005 10:07 PM #31
      both, does not unlock when touching handle, or lock with button.

    32. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-28-2005 09:53 PM #32
      Quote, originally posted by geowben »
      If the water problem is what is causing it, won't it always be a problem?

      No, not at all. There is a very easy fix for problems caused by water that infiltrates into electrical connectors - one just puts a bit of dielectric grease on the connector before assembling it. That is common practice with motorcycles and aircraft. I think that VW even provides dielectric grease to the dealerships as a VW part.

      Quote, originally posted by geowben »
      I am not one who goes crazy if a few things aren't working. The car continues to impress me. I recently went looking at some others and nothing seems to measure up.

      I agree with you on both points, although I don't mind it if I have the occasional minor functional problem with the car - I enjoy the troubleshooting process, and the service department at my VW dealership is a very social place, it's almost as if having a small problem gives me an excellent excuse to turn off the cell phone and then go spend the day in the service department of the dealership trying to track down the problem and fix it. That's far more relaxing and enjoyable than most other things I can do when I am here in Canada...

      Quote, originally posted by geowben »
      PS I don't think it is the key battery. Recently I got a low battery warning and replaced it.

      Exactly. As Phaeton owners, we can rule out weak key batteries right off the bat whenever we are troubleshooting a door unlocking problem. The Phaeton will measure the voltage level of the battery in the key fob every single time the key fob is used to unlock the car (either by pressing a button on it, or by searching for it when someone touches a door handle). If the key fob voltage is low, the Phaeton will then display a message to the effect of "Replace Key Fob Battery" on the screen between the speedometer and tachometer.

      Michael


    33. Member Paldi's Avatar
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      01-08-2006 07:54 PM #33
      Michael, do you happn to have a couple of photos of the interior of the right side front door? I still have my rattle from the door handle install in October. The door buzzes when Willie Nelson performs a song with a lot of bass. It also "clacks" over bumps taken on the right side tires. I hope a couple of photos will help me narrow it down to find the possible broken fastener.

    34. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      01-22-2006 10:07 PM #34
      Just a follow-up to the original topic (door handle locking pushbuttons that stop working): I discovered this week that the left rear door handle locking button on my Phaeton is no longer working.

      This is not a big inconvenience to me (the driver door button still works), so, I have decided to postpone getting this fixed until the late spring, when the weather is nicer and the staff at the body shop that my VW dealer uses are not so busy with 'winter accidents'.

      The replacement door handle needs to be painted (the part comes in from the VW parts warehouse with primer paint on it). I think what I will do is drop my Phaeton off at the body shop for a few days while they are painting the new door handle, and ask that they touch up any small rock chips, etc on my car at the same time they have prepared the basic black paint for the new door handle and, later, the Klavierlack clearcoat for the new door handle.

      The new door handle is painted as a stand-alone part, and has nothing to do with the car itself. My thinking, though, is that if the body shop also has possession of my entire car at the same time that they are painting this door handle, the cost to me of having them touch up any tiny little rock chips will be lower than it would be if I took the car in for that purpose alone, and they had to mix up a fresh batch of black paint and a fresh batch of Klavierlack clearcoat.

      Just a thought for others who may need to have door handles replaced in the future.

      Michael


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      03-13-2006 08:13 PM #35
      My Phaeton is in the shop and is having the two right side door handles replaced as the lock/unlock buttons are not working.

      Here's the kicker: After having the car in the morning and examining the problem, the service writer has told me that they are going to replace the handles (after having them painted), but they don't have to disassemble the inside of the door to do it. I got this info by email so I wasn't able to ask them how they were going to do that. But I will, and I will post the response as soon as I get it.

      BTW, I sent him a link to this thread before I brought the care in and he said he was going to print it out and show it to the technician.


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