Keyless Entry Issues (consolidated discussions) [TOC, Photos Done]

[V10NRB]

Hi,

This might have been posted before but I cannot find it.

Last Wednesday my Keyless Entry/Exit became intermitent. Holding key next to handle and nothing, no click, nothing. So have have been using key for last few days.

Today, this evening Keyless entry works ok, with key in my pocket.

The Keyless start has worked all along.

Does anyone know why my keyless entry stopped working, was intermittently working, now working.

Will it stop again, lets wait and see.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

cheers

Neil

[PanEuropean]

I'm not entirely sure what has caused your difficulty. Perhaps check to make sure that you have not inadvertently left another Phaeton key inside the car. Phaetons with keyless access will not lock if there is a valid key inside the cabin or inside the trunk - this is to prevent you from locking yourself out of the car.

Michael

[pilgrim7777]

I had strange happening a couple of weeks ago. I was helping my son to move house and was loading the trunk/boot and I dropped the gear in and in so doing my key was dropped with the gear and then slammed the trunk shut (manual close). As it dawned on me I had just closed the trunk and the key now in the closed trunk thinking its not supposed to shut with the key inside the car. Now feeling like a complete buffoon tried to open the trunk no deal. Walked away thinking what now, a cup of tea later walked out to to the car and pressed the VW logo and it opened. My secondary thought was why would it not open when I tried the first couple of times, it surely was not the tea interval???

[PanEuropean]

Hi Terence:

Alternatively, you could have opened the driver door and lifted the button on the driver door to pop the trunk lid.

If the Phaeton has keyless access, you cannot lock it up if there is a key in either the cabin or the boot. But, that does not prevent you from closing the boot lid, as you discovered.

As for the tea break - my guess was that after 1 minute 55 seconds, the car went to sleep, as it normally does, and when you came back to the car and pressed the button anew, it detected the key inside the trunk and thus opened the trunk. It is possible that it did not detect the key when you pressed it right away after closing the lid... maybe it 'looked harder' after waking up.

Michael

[pilgrim7777]

Michael
You are right about the button on the drivers door but at the time it just did not occur to me. doh! It only dawned on me later.

[car_guy]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

If the Phaeton has keyless access, you cannot lock it up if there is a key in either the cabin or the boot. But, that does not prevent you from closing the boot lid, as you discovered.

On a trip we took, after locking the car and opening the trunk, my wife threw her pocketbook with her keys in it in the trunk. We tried to close it and the trunk lid would close and then reopen on its own. At first I was mystified and thought there was some fault, and "what am I going to do now with the trunk stuck open?". We figured it out, removed the key, and everything functioned as usual.

I just went into the garage and tested this, and it works exactly as described above. Perhaps another hidden feature?

[V10NRB]

Hi,

I have only two keys and both are out of the car.

Today - The doors are working BUT he boot is still not working, I press the VW badge and notthing opens.

So the problems is changing, not gone away, but looking better...

cheers

Neil

[Realist42]

Quote, originally posted by V10NRB »

Hi, I have only two keys and both are out of the car. Today - The doors are working BUT he boot is still not working, I press the VW badge and notthing opens. So the problems is changing, not gone away, but looking better... cheers Neil

Don't rule out the obvious 'Radio Interference' possibility, are you testing in the same location? does the problem change depending on where you are?

If not, the we can rule out external factors...

rgds

Johan

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by V10NRB »

Today - The doors are working BUT he boot is still not working, I press the VW badge and nothing opens.

Hi Neil:

OK, here's my best attempt at "troubleshooting by long distance using an Ouija board" - a reckless task at the best of times:

1) Replace the key battery. This is really cheap and simple to do (battery costs ₤2.50 if you buy it at a big electronics superstore or a toy store, you can replace it yourself without difficulty). In theory, the Phaeton should give you a message in the instrument cluster display if the key battery is low, but because it is so simple and inexpensive to replace the battery, just do that first, to rule out one variable.

2) Try locking or unlocking the car doors with the remote (the one with the fresh battery) from each of 8 different compass points all around the car, whilst standing about 3 yards away. In other words, from the N, S, E, W quadrants, as well as NE, NW, SE, SW. This is a quick and simple way to test out both the external antennas and the portion of the KESSY (Keyless Entry and Start System) controller (controller 05, also called the Access and Start Controller).

3) Critically evaluate the state of charge of the vehicle power supply battery (the left hand battery). As we all know, the first hint we get that the left hand battery is at less than optimal charge status is flaky behaviour of other systems in the car, keyless access included.

4) Do a diagnostic scan of the car to reveal what fault codes are present. Of special interest to you are any fault codes related to the Access and Start Controller (05), the Immobilizer (25), and any fault related to doors or handles.
'
If I had to place a bet - my money would be on a slightly discharged vehicle power supply battery (left battery).

Let us know what you find.

Michael

How to open the key to change the battery

The battery itself
The OEM battery is a Panasonic CR 2032. This is a 3 volt lithium battery. Equivalent part numbers from other companies include DL2032, BR2032, KL2032, L2032, ECR2032, 5004LC, KCR2032, E-CR2032, KECR2032, SB-T15, L14. Important note: This is the same battery as is used in a 'Tamagotchi' virtual pet, so, if you have a child under 12 in your house, you can scarf the battery out of their Tamagotchi.

Antennas needed for Keyless Entry
Note that the reception range of the interior and exterior antennas does not overlap. There are two different and distinct zones - inside and outside.

Also be aware that the exterior door handles themselves function as antennas.

[Paldi]

Perhaps the earlier post was one of mine. I don't remember if I started the thread or just posted in it. In any event, my keyless problem is back too. The black push buttons in the exterior door handles stopped working (again) and the micro switch in the trunk stopped responding too. The car has been covered in snow and ice in recent weeks. When I touch the door handle, the car does not unlock, I have to use the button on the key fob. When the car was in for its 40k service I mentioned the issue, but there were no codes. An intermittent issue, so it seems.

[PanEuropean]

Fred, if I were you, I would focus my initial troubleshooting and diagnostic efforts on the state of charge of the left hand battery.

Somehow, I just can't see this being a keyless access problem... but I sure can see it being a sequelæ arising from a low charge on the left battery. All the clues point in that direction - age of the battery, cold temperatures, problem comes and goes, etc.

Michael

[Paldi]

My Phaeton has gone through a week long winter freeze with ice covering much of the car due to snow and ice storms or morning frost. During this period I have not taken it through a car wash.

At present NONE of the locks will operate by touching the door handles, pressing on the exterior door handle buttons or the trunk micro switch. Both key fobs are working fine - locking and unlocking remotely.

I assume the controller has either gone to sleep to protect itself from a faulty door handle switch or it is fried. Last time this happened it cleared itself in a day or two. Not this time.

[PanEuropean]

Hi Fred:

I recall that a similar discussion has come up in another thread recently. Although I would not rule out the possibility of a problem with the keyless access system, my first troubleshooting and diagnostics efforts would focus on the health of the left hand battery (vehicle power supply battery), rather than the keyless access system.

Perhaps take the car to the dealer and ask them to test the left battery using the Midtronics tester... see what kind of results you get. Next thing I would do is replace the button battery in the key fob and see if that makes a difference. Both of these actions are far less invasive (and far less costly) than getting into troubleshooting of the keyless access system.

Note that you can get replacement button batteries for the key fob for about $3 at Circuit City or other similar 'big box' electronics retailers. It is a very common battery. Here is a link to a post with battery replacement instructions: Keys, Key Blades, Immobilizers, and Remote Unlocking.

Here is a link to a post that explains how to test the health of the left hand battery using the Midtronics tester: J367 Battery Monitoring Controller Replacement.

Michael

It's quick and easy to check the battery charge level with the special tool.
The battery does not have to be removed, the Phaeton does not even have to come into the shop - the work can be completed in 3 minutes.
Be sure to set the testing tool to AGM before testing the left battery!

Sample of the reports provided by the battery testing tool.
This takes all the guesswork out of concerns about the battery itself.

[Paldi]

Thanks Michael.

Both main key fob batteries were replaced about 6 months ago. I don't recall if I replaced the valet key battery then too. If the 'left' battery is weak, keep in mind the battery controller was also replaced about 5,000 miles back (at the service before they replaced the transmission). I'll have them check on it.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by Paldi »

...If the 'left' battery is weak, keep in mind the battery controller was also replaced about 5,000 miles back (at the service before they replaced the transmission)...

That's actually why I am suggesting you make a careful investigation of the present health of that left battery. There has been some anecdotal evidence lately that perhaps left batteries on 2004 cars are failing before their normal life expectancy because of their 'lack of proper nutrition' prior to the replacement of the battery controller.

We don't have any hard evidence of this yet, which is why we need to collect data from about half a dozen 2004 vehicles and see what the data shows. Thus my suggestion that you have the battery tested "as it sits" to see if it is properly charged. If it is not properly charged (but you do have the correct battery controller installed), then the next step is to hook it up to the Midtronics charger (not the tester, but the charger, a different Midtronics special tool) and charge it. At the end of that charging cycle, the Midtronics charger will either say "All done, drive away" (or words to that effect), or "Replace Battery". If it says "Replace Battery" - well, you have found the culprit.

Michael

[Paldi]

The battery, if weakened by a bad controller, could fail early... is that a warranty replacement item then? In any event, so far, this is the only electrical glitch, knock wood.


Modified by Paldi at 8:19 PM 3-2-2007

[Paldi]

I've also notice my car takes a split second longer to initiate the starting sequence when I turn the ignition switch.

Before my current Kessey woe was noticed, I remember one of those little "ah ha!!" events when the car began its start sequence, stopped and then began again. I ignored it, but a few days later I noticed the door stopped unlocking when I touched it.

Maybe a clue. I'll keep you all posted - it goes into service on Tuesday.



Modified by Paldi at 9:01 AM 3-3-2007

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by Paldi »

The battery, if weakened by a bad controller, could fail early...

That is the hypothesis, but it has not been proven yet. If it turns out to be the case, the normal new car warranty covers the battery in the same manner as any other component - 4 years or 50K miles, whichever comes first.

Michael

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by Paldi »

Michael, you might want to merge this thread with the newer one.

Good idea, I did just that, and retitled the thread.

Michael

[DAchener]

I have keyless access, but I can not open my rear doors unless I use my key fob, but I can lock the car pressing any one of the four sensors on the door handles. Should I be able to open the rear doors without using my key fob?

Dominique

[PanEuropean]

Yes. Your VW dealer should be able to solve this problem for you. See the first page of this discussion for full details.

Michael

[Paldi]

The kessey started working again this evening after being off line all week. I washed the road salt off car at a car wash yesterday afternoon, and took it for a 100 mile round trip this evening. Should I keep my service appointment on Tuesday?

[PanEuropean]

Yes - get that left battery checked out.

Michael

[Paldi]

Guess you're right. In the 2 mile trip from Starbucks to home base the system quit again. At present only the trunk micro switch is working - the door buttons and the capacitive unlock feature are both again kaput.

[PanEuropean]

Fred:

I'm wondering (just a shot in the dark) if there might be communications problems in your car? Have a look at this post: Sound System - low volume and unadjustable, and perhaps ask the techs at your VW dealership to check to see what software version you have in your instrument cluster.

Although you might wonder "what the heck does the instrument cluster have to do with this", the instrument cluster happens to contain the gateway through which all data in the car passes. Have a look at this post for more background information on data transmission: Phaeton controller addresses, controller network topology. The flash update of the instrument cluster controller to software version 21 is a simple and inexpensive task to carry out, and requires no intervention or disassembly. In fact, in all markets of the world other than North America, it is a mandatory vehicle update that is carried out without comment anytime the car is in for service. In North America, you have to ask for it (in other words, explain that you are seeing distortion on the display screen in the instrument cluster).

I'm still betting my money on a weak left hand battery, but I'll hedge my bet by placing a side bet on instrument cluster (gateway) software. I'll give you 100 to 1 odds against there being anything wrong with the keyless access system itself (the access and start control module, or the door handles).

If the tech discovers that the left battery is in excellent health, and the instrument cluster is at software version 21, and the keyless access system still does not work right, then the next step in the troubleshooting process is to look for an exterior door LOCKING button (the rectangular black button) that is stuck (internally shorted out) in the closed position - in other words, always sending a message that someone is pressing the button in an attempt to lock the car. The status of these buttons can be observed in the MVB (measured value blocks) for each of the four buttons. See the third post on the first page of this topic for detailed information. There are known issues with water infiltrating into those push-buttons on some MY 2004 Phaetons, in fact, I have had two door handles replaced on my Phaeton because of that exact problem. Further information about door handle replacement can be found on the first page of this topic.

But, as always, rule out the things that are easy and inexpensive to fix before you go looking at the difficult and expensive things. The left battery and the software update are both easy and inexpensive.

Michael

[Paldi]

No luck today. The car was dropped off Tuesday with the kessy not working. Yesterday it started working at the dealership. No codes or hint as to why it had stopped working for a week. So this afternoon I picked it up and took my 40 mile commute to the nursing home. It worked when I arrived. After arriving back home tonight it's not working again. Anybody have a clue? Battery was supposed to have checked out OK, and while the software is an old version the VW tech people said (in so many words) the flash upgrade doesn't affect operation of the two Kessey controllers (one controlls the push button locks, the other the capacitive unlocking system). They say they will be ready to carry out additional tests if it failed again. It has. But the good news is a hurting 40k miles Phaeton is 'way better' than a new Chevy Cobalt rental.

Modified by Paldi at 10:14 AM 3-9-2007

[PanEuropean]

Fred, I would almost think (about 80% certainty) that if there are no codes generated, then it must be an electrical power issue.

If there is anything wrong with a controller, it generates a code. Period, no exceptions. Even if a fault condition only exists for one second, a code is recorded, and if the same fault condition is not present when the car is scanned with a diagnostic scan tool, the fault will be reported as 'intermittent'. In other words, 'intermittent' means the fault was present at some time in the past, but was not present when the diagnostic scan was done.

Did the technician check the function of the four push-buttons on the exterior door handles, using the diagnostic scan tool to observe measured value blocks? If even one button is sticking (shorted) in the IN position, that will disable the whole keyless entry system.

Michael

[Paldi]

This morning it's still not working. I drove it a mile to this little coffee shop and decided, on a hunch, to open and slam the right front passenger door. Now it's working again, at least the push button on that door worked. If, as you say, a problem with one door handle will disable the whole system, my thought was to go mess with the door handle that was replaced and which door has been rattling for a year. Good advice, thanks!

This is good coffee.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by Paldi »

...my thought was to go mess with the door handle that was replaced and which door has been rattling for a year.

Well, yes and no. There is a 'one in four' chance that the handle that was replaced might be the problem. What your tech really needs to do is observe the MVB for each handle, and operate the push-button for each handle about a dozen times while observing the MVB, until he or she finds the one that is failing intermittently in the 'closed' position.

If a button fails in the 'open' position, it won't affect operation of the system (although you won't be able to lock the car from that button), but if a button fails in the closed position, you won't be able to use the keyless entry system to lock or unlock the car from any door.

Michael

[Paldi]

My theory is the anti-rattle clips on the replaced door handle were not re-attached causing the rattle, abrasion to the wiring harnass and shorting out the wires intermittantly. I don't know if I can prove this theory. Will a short circuit show up in the MVB?

[PanEuropean]

Yes, the measured value blocks (MVB) will show the state of the circuit - by example, open (the normal value), closed, short to ground, missing ground, improbable, steady-state or intermittent. I rather doubt that you will find a wiring harness problem - I think you will find a defective button that has failed closed due to water infiltration.

Michael

[Paldi]

OK, whatever the cause, the 'slam the front passenger door cure' worked again today.

[Paldi]

The kessey is back on the fritz and slamming dors doesn't help. In addition, the infotainment is going batty with the map and navi functions freezing and the navi cutting on and off in mid-route.That finally cleared up but the kessey is still down. I have another service appointment on the 19th.

[edit] All running well this afternoon.

Modified by Paldi at 12:34 PM 3-14-2007

[edit] Kessey stopped working again but the navigation is OK.

Modified by Paldi at 7:16 PM 3-14-2007

[edit] Kessey is working this morning.


Modified by Paldi at 11:23 AM 3-15-2007

[dzier]

This sounds like me the first two years I had my Phaeton. After ranting and raving early last year, the Phaeton technical team descended upon Indianapolis and they updgraded all controllers and software, kessey and sensors on my car. Michael told me that I had a 2006 in software and controllers. I also went through 4 infotainment units in the early years as well.

Looks like Paldi is taking over my old thrown.


Modified by dzier at 1:52 PM 3-26-2007

[PanEuropean]

Phaeton owners outside of North America (Europe, etc.) who are having problems with the pushbutton exterior door handle locking feature of the keyless access system should ask their VW dealer to look up Technical Solution 2012826. This fully addresses what needs to be done to solve the problem.

VW North America has not released this document in Technical Bulletin form yet.

Michael