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    Thread: USRT Fueling Solutions

    1. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      10-17-2005 02:35 PM #36
      Okay, I'll assume that you're tuning a Mk3 VR6. If you want to make 350whp with that on pump gas I'd use 440cc injectors running at 3bar. Manage them with some software from C2 Motorsports (or something more refined from EIP) and you'll be good to go. Sell the FMU off to somebody who wants to abuse their injectors. As for your fuel pump, I'm not sure which one you have. What's the part number?

      P.S. USRT's crew chief graduated from Wyotech out there in Laramie, WY. -great school!

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    2. 10-17-2005 08:10 PM #37
      its the top of the line bosch pump that is included in the stage 2 eip tuning turbo system!

      Yeah ive only been here at wyotech for 3 weeks but its rather prestigious


    3. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      10-17-2005 08:13 PM #38
      That pump will be more than sufficient for your needs. Now, go do your homework.
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    4. 10-21-2005 11:55 PM #39
      Hey There, I need a pump set up that will support 550WHP in my scirocco. We are making now in excess of 420whp@26psi with 720cc injectors with 2.5bar. on stock CIS pump with transfer pump. Any idea to get the fueling I need for our new set up wich will see 550whp next summer. Thanks I trust your opinion!

    5. 10-22-2005 12:12 PM #40
      Bump for a good seller, thanks for all your help man

    6. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      10-24-2005 10:33 AM #41
      Quote, originally posted by euroroccoT »
      Hey There, I need a pump set up that will support 550WHP in my scirocco. We are making now in excess of 420whp@26psi with 720cc injectors with 2.5bar. on stock CIS pump with transfer pump. Any idea to get the fueling I need for our new set up wich will see 550whp next summer. Thanks I trust your opinion!

      Marc, I'm assuming that you're running either race gas or water/alcohol injection with your current system. If not, please let me know! Also, if you have any idea what your current duty cycles are I'd appreciate that info, too. Now... with certain assumptions made I figure that you'd be best off with 870cc injectors running at 3.5bar to safely make that 550whp. I'd use the Aeromotive A1000 pump with -10AN line between the pump and the tank. Go with -8AN between the fuel rail and the pump and then -6AN return line between the rail and the tank.


      It may be very convenient to place a surge tank up front and have the big A1000 draw from that instead of from the stock tank directly. That way you don't have to sump your tank or add a fuel cell. You'll never ever have any cavitation problems or run lean due to fuel sloshing away from the pick up in the main tank, either.

      Scott F. Williams, Team Director
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    7. 10-24-2005 01:08 PM #42
      Im worried that the in tank pump will not supply enough fuel, even with sump. Im running c16 last I check I was at around 78% duty but some changes were made since.

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      10-24-2005 01:19 PM #43
      Mark, that's what the surge tank is for. You'll empty it with the A1000 faster than the stock pump can fill it. However, if you make that surge tank large to last for as long as a full throttle run (usually just several seconds) you'll never run out of fuel. Otherwise, I'd just run the A1000 directly to a sumped tank and forget about the transfer pump.
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    9. Senior Member Metallitubby's Avatar
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      11-10-2005 12:32 AM #44
      Scott rules.

    10. 11-20-2005 06:08 PM #45
      hi i need a little help in regards to my feul setup as well. i am currently using an IHI vf22 turbo with stock feul system. the only thin im using to fool the ecu is a piggyback. my current a/f is 12.5. its an mk4 gti. i plan on putting on a 3in dp cause the exhaust place fu**ed up and put a 2.25in which they are going to fix. will the extra flow of the 3in make me run more lean? and i am currently boosting about 16psi. i am planning on going up to 300-320hp. what feul system should i run? as in injectors, pump, regulator, standalone or chip? i need all the help i can get please see my thread in the forced induction forum under http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2305383 thanks and any heald would be appreciated.
      -joseph

    11. Member evilgti2000's Avatar
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      11-25-2005 01:07 AM #46
      Couple of questions and looking for any updates.


      First, if you are planning on making a fuel rail for a VR will it work with a stock manifold? What size feed/return will it incorporate? Will it still utilize a stock FPR on the rail?

      And how far along are you guys with making these?

      '94 Golf VR6T GT4088 R.I.P///'06 Evo SE FP Green full bolt on///'06 Evo RS FP Red Meth///'12 Audi Q5///'12 Golf :.R

    12. 11-28-2005 06:46 PM #47
      So i just purcahsed a complete fuel system from USRT.

      I could never thank scott more for the service he provided. I was kind of turned off to pieceing together a fueling system for my BT project but then i emailed USRT. the day(thats right one day) went something like this.

      i woke up around 1:30PM. i was looking around on the tex as usual then i went to USRT's site and emailed them at 2:48PM. within the time i clicked "send" and closed the window got up and went to get dressed scott was already calling me at 2:52PM. there was a time frame of 4 minutes between me sending the email to him replying IN PERSON on the phone i didnt even plan on purchasing anything today but his service just made me want to give him all my money.

      scott was beyond helpful and deserves *238472839

      we played phone tag for a couple hours so he could find everything that i needed. he got me my 440cc injectors, in-tank fuel pump, injector spacers, and my adjustable fpr with gauge. he had everything in stock and even went the extra mile to find the other stuff for my BT project.

      scott you are a great man and i wish i could shake your hand, or probably hug you, in person. thanks again!

      can't wait for my 's to come in the mail


    13. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      11-30-2005 02:42 PM #48
      Quote, originally posted by jsocar1986 »
      i plan on putting on a 3in dp cause the exhaust place fu**ed up and put a 2.25in which they are going to fix. will the extra flow of the 3in make me run more lean?

      Joseph, the bigger exhaust won't make your run lean directly. However, the reduction in back pressure will definitely speed up the spool time of your turbo and will potentially increase the amount of boost that you can run. Those two factors may require adjustments to your fuel curve (which should be dialed in with proper software). You'll certainly need new software to control injectors large enough to support your power goals.

      Quote »
      I am currently boosting about 16psi. i am planning on going up to 300-320hp. what feul system should i run? as in injectors, pump, regulator, standalone or chip?

      Okay, I'll assume that you're looking for that much power at the wheels rather than the crank. To feed that hungry engine on pump fuel I would use 440cc injectors. Combine that with a strong inline pump, a stock 4bar fpr (or adjustable), and some quality software and you'll be good to go. Standalone management will offer the best power and reliability, but you'll give up your OBD-II which means that your car will not pass inspection in many areas. I can take care of you with all of these bits.

      Btw, USRT is very close to providing an entirely new generation of injectors for the VW engines that will blow away current options. Idle stability, cold start, and emissions will be improved significantly. Low-rpm torque will probably be boosted, too. Full details and specs will follow shortly.

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    14. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      11-30-2005 02:48 PM #49
      Quote, originally posted by evilgti2000 »
      First, if you are planning on making a fuel rail for a VR will it work with a stock manifold? What size feed/return will it incorporate? Will it still utilize a stock FPR on the rail?

      And how far along are you guys with making these?

      Yep, we've got several fuel rails under development or finished already. The Mk2/3 VR6s are done and feature -8AN feed and -6AN return ports. These parts aren't difficult for us to physically produce. However, I'm slammed at the moment juggling other projects. We can do the Mk4 VR6 stuff, too, but I need a car in front of me to measure, etc.

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    15. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      11-30-2005 02:54 PM #50
      Quote, originally posted by kevinGTI02 »
      I could never thank scott more for the service he provided.

      Thanks for such positive comments, Kevin. I'm here to help! I'll back to you later today with more information, too.

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    16. Member evilgti2000's Avatar
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      11-30-2005 10:48 PM #51
      Quote, originally posted by Scott@USRT »

      Yep, we've got several fuel rails under development or finished already. The Mk2/3 VR6s are done and feature -8AN feed and -6AN return ports. These parts aren't difficult for us to physically produce. However, I'm slammed at the moment juggling other projects. We can do the Mk4 VR6 stuff, too, but I need a car in front of me to measure, etc.

      Thats great news!!! Will these new VR fuel rails be able to flow big amounts of fuel for us big power, drag guys? Any ideas as to when I could get my hands on one of these rails?

      I was looking to buy some injectors from you but I think I will hold off untill I find out more details behind the new ones you will be offering. Thanks for the info as always .

      '94 Golf VR6T GT4088 R.I.P///'06 Evo SE FP Green full bolt on///'06 Evo RS FP Red Meth///'12 Audi Q5///'12 Golf :.R

    17. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      11-30-2005 11:11 PM #52
      Andy, which VR6 engine do you actually have? It is the Mk4 VR6 engines (12v, 24v, and R32) that will get the new injector treatment (along with the 1.8T variants). As for the flows... it's all about BIG.
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    18. 12-01-2005 12:18 PM #53
      Quote, originally posted by Scott@USRT »
      To feed that hungry engine on pump fuel I would use 440cc injectors. Combine that with a strong inline pump, a stock 4bar fpr (or adjustable), and some quality software and you'll be good to go. Standalone management will offer the best power and reliability

      ok what do you suggest i get. my mechanic says that he would put a haltec ecu i believe its the F10x which he is charging me $850 for and 440cc injectors for $54 each. i can get the ecu for $730 i just would like to know the prices you offer that way i wont have to scrounge from place to place looking for parts. so i believe i would need the ecu, injectors, 4bar fpr, pump, anything else? please pm me a price so i can haave a rough estimate and anything else you believe i would need to achive my goal.
      thanks for your help,
      -joseph


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      12-01-2005 01:11 PM #54
      Frankly, for as "little" as 300-ish whp I'd just go with a chip. You might give up a few hp, but the refinement will be there. Once you're shooting for more than 400whp I'd consider standalone a no-brainer. Anyway, I just shot you an IM with pricing information and such.
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    20. Member evilgti2000's Avatar
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      12-01-2005 06:06 PM #55
      Quote, originally posted by Scott@USRT »
      Andy, which VR6 engine do you actually have? It is the Mk4 VR6 engines (12v, 24v, and R32) that will get the new injector treatment (along with the 1.8T variants). As for the flows... it's all about BIG.

      Oh cool, I am a old OBDI 12V'er, lol. PM will be sent .

      '94 Golf VR6T GT4088 R.I.P///'06 Evo SE FP Green full bolt on///'06 Evo RS FP Red Meth///'12 Audi Q5///'12 Golf :.R

    21. 12-06-2005 02:23 AM #56
      Big thanks to Scott for always helping me with all the stuff needed for my project.

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2287453


    22. 12-14-2005 06:53 PM #57
      hi, i have a 1992 2.8 vr6 (dizzy) which i am about to add a z-engineering supercharger with 8 psi pulley, my engine is stock apart from a cone filter and straight thru exhaust system and a 4 bar FPR. im looking to run in the region of 250-280 whp and would like info on chip choice but mainly what size injectors i should run and possibly the part #. thx very much..................

    23. 01-12-2006 11:48 PM #58
      Hey i am looking for some expert input on some fueling questions...

      going to be running a 16vT...aiming for 300whp..looking at going with 034efi standalone.

      what size injectors should i look at getting and what about FPR (rising rate or just a 3 or 4 bar one?) and can you give me a price shipped to canada please


      Modified by 92golfer at 10:44 AM 1-13-2006


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      01-18-2006 03:17 PM #59
      Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I'm on the road right now in Stockholm, Sweden. Internet access has been a bit spotty. Anyway, my recommendation is to go with whatever VF Engineering's software calls for. Alternately, you can do well with a chip from C2 Motorsports. With that said I'd probably go with some 315cc. The C2 chip calls for 380cc, though. I've got whatever you need. Just ask.

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    25. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      01-18-2006 03:32 PM #60
      Okay, a 300whp 16vT, eh? I'd grab some 580cc low-impedance and run them at 3bar. That'll idle very sweetly with great high-rpm accuracy, too. Plus, you'll have plenty of headroom for making more power later. Please check your IM for pricing!

      Okay, off to Copenhagen, Denmark I go. I'll be back in the States in a week, but can take care of orders right now, too. Later folks.

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    26. 01-24-2006 01:31 AM #61
      hey Scott,
      I'd like to know what injectors i need for my engine.It's a 1.8t AEB T3/T4E, Autronic and, adjustable fuel press. reg.. What base psi?Multi nosel or signal nosel? Low or High Imp.?My HP max out-put is 300,but for every day 225. Would like a smooth idle. Your expertise will result in the "randiest" car I'VE EVER SAW, DRIVEN, AND HAND BUILT. Thanks really Hope your trip was fun.

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      01-29-2006 05:30 PM #62
      Okay, since you're using Autronic you have plenty of options. You don't need all that much injector to support 300whp. So, I'd suggest my new-style 415cc (with the proper 1.8T spray pattern). Run them at 4bar and you'll be good to go. Your idle will be factory-smooth, throttle reponse will be sharp, and emssions will be clean. These injectors are high-impedance, have a single spray nozzle, but have multiple orifices from which the fuel is emitted.

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    28. Member Not4show's Avatar
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      02-04-2006 12:41 PM #63
      engine congiguration is ABA bottom end with AEB head T3/T4 turbo with megasquirt and 580 injectors, Looking for 400hp Also I will be installaing fuel cell so I'm open to most options.


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      02-04-2006 01:34 PM #64
      I'm not sure if you're asking a question or just sharing your spec. But, those injectors at 3bar will be perfect for 400bhp. You'll need a high-flow fuel rail, too, and a stronger fuel pump. If you want that power at the wheels, however, you'll want to bump the fuel pressure up to 4bar. Low-impedance injectors will make your tuning easier because of the quicker response time.
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      02-04-2006 02:34 PM #65
      I'm looking for fuel pump requirements as far as how much I need a fuel pump to flow to meet my needs. And yes a custom fuel rail will be on the car as well

    31. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      02-04-2006 03:31 PM #66
      Either a Bosch Motorsports pump or Walbro 255lph will take care of your 400whp nicely. If you "only" want 400bhp you'll have that much more reserve flow capacity. Just make sure that you've got the pump hardwired to get full 13.x voltage and you'll be good to go.
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    32. Member PBWB's Avatar
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      02-08-2006 06:48 PM #67
      ordered my green tops on monday and got em today! youre the man scott!
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      I dont care what you or anyone else "thinks" they have done. We're all just racing for fun on here whether you run 9's or 17's.

    33. 02-13-2006 10:51 PM #68
      How much are you guys asking for the Walpro 255 unit? I'm checkin out your Fire and Fuel unit but have a somewhat difficult question....Do you guys recommend running stand alone for a beginner? I have read some technical books on fuel management and have a local that tuned his b16 on stand alone for a reference but I'm just not sure. I don't wanna fork over the dough for a chip since that will run nearly half the cost of F&F and since boost is addictive.... yea. How user friendly would this be for a guy looking to boost his 2.0 to a max of 12-ish PSI? Depending on how cheap i can find a spare block to build right, I dont believe I would push it any higher.
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      I'd plow her like a cornfield. HNNNNG

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      02-14-2006 12:29 PM #69
      Quote, originally posted by vwgtiIII »
      How much are you guys asking for the Walpro 255 unit?

      The best place to check pricing information is the USRT website.

      Quote »
      Do you guys recommend running stand alone for a beginner?

      Most any standalone engine management takes a bit of experience to install. If you can read a wiring diagram, can do light electrical fabrication (soldering and such), know sensor layout, and fundamental engine mechanics, then you'll have no problem at all. In other words, you don't need to be an engineer, but you do must have a comprehensive understanding of what's going on under the hood. It isn't a rank amateur's job. FnF also requires PC skills since it is currently based on MegaSquirt.

      Quote »
      How user friendly would this be for a guy looking to boost his 2.0 to a max of 12-ish PSI?

      The amount boost that you're looking to run isn't very relevant to the install. However, programming any standlalone on a forced induction engine requires knowledge and skill. I wouldn't jump into this if you're clueless. Pay for a professional to do it and you'll get superior results that exceed the performance that chips can offer.

      Remember that we also offer 034EFI which is the better deal if you need hand holding. FnF's value is strongest for those who can work more independently.

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    35. 02-15-2006 12:08 AM #70
      Well I don't consider myself an amateur but I'm no pro either. I am going FI since my VR swap last summer ended up with a cracked block so this is option 2 since I don't wanna look all over the area for a decent parts car again. I'm pretty technically and PC inclined. The current book on diagnostics I'm reading is How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems by Motorbooks Workshop by Jeff Hartman. I'm not sure if you would be familiar but its pretty easy to pickup and comprehend. You're 034EFI is just way out of my price range for such a mild turbo setup, I just want to be able to alter boost in case I end up changing compression ratios, upping the injector size, etc. The reason I mentioned my boost goal was to maybe highlight how in depth the tuning would require yet when I think back it was a horrible question since I would basically be starting with a blank system and going from there instead of starting from OEM specs and then going. Thanks though. I don't plan on rushing into anything crazy without finishing the current book with complete understanding of what it is saying. Thanks a lot though Now I just need to figure out a decent, reliable clutch for that kind of power.

      From the other comments you have posted, I assume that the F&F system would work well for what I am trying to do (MK3 ABA mid to low level boosted street setup)?

      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      I'd plow her like a cornfield. HNNNNG

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