Might need this in a couple of days
2:6x8.0:1 OR 8.5:1 TURBO 81mm VR6T drop in piston
3:Fat rods for VR6T
Check this out for me please .
scott need help with my fueling issues- i have a low compression vrtwith a to4e tottally rebuilt bottom end and top end, running eip stage 2 chip and rising rate fmu, any way need to know about how many psi fuel i should be running i ask for psi because i dont have the gauge to test it in bar, and i want to be running 15lbs of boost. thanks mike
Okay, let's first put this reply in context. I do not believe that an FMU-based fueling scheme is optimal, necessary, or even wise. Modern electronic fuel injection permits the fuel curve to be dialed in with computer precision. A rising rate pressure regulator, on the other hand, creates the fuel curve mechanically. At best, it is a compromise. This method can certainly work, but never as precisely as an OEM-"proper" set up with bigger injectors, appropriate pressure, and software that is carefully tuned for the engine and its operating parameters.
I'd look to EIP for particular guidance about working with this FMU. They're clearly the masters of this technique whether I agree with their methods or not.
With that said, let's directly address your question. Your max fuel requirement is tied directly to the power that you intend to support. So, how much output are we talking about here? (Please clarify whether you're talking about whp or bhp/chp.) What compression ratio do you have? What octane level do you intend to tune with? Do you have a wideband to tune with?
Or... are you simply asking what fuel pressure in psi corresponds to a given pressure expressed in bar? Remember that 1bar = 14.5psi. And... considering that a fuel pressure gauge will cost you $25 or less, there's absolutely no reason not to have one (assuming you don't already).
Hi scott Im trying to figure out what I need to purchase as far as injectors/FPR and Fuel pump. I dont have the car yet Im moving to Germany but I have a lot of parts piling up to build one when I move there in march (air force is sending me to germany for 4 years!) so ive got a ABA16V that will be going into a Mk1 Golf or Polo. I have a BBM 16v fuel rail and I will be running Megasquirt v2.2 squirt and spark. I will have stock obd1 internals and a basically stock 16v head I know it does not take an amazing amount of boost to make this motor rock but Im shooting for a min of 300hp once its tuned and running. Plan on using a t3/t4 to get there.anyways what size injectors/FPR and Fuel pump would you suggest to fuel this project? I will be buying from you
I also sent this VIA IM sorry for the length
Just read another post so here are some added things you asked for to him.
Im looking for atleast 300 with as much as 350WHP
I am planning on running pump gas highest octane available in germany. I have an LM2 wideband to monitor my a/f and I will be using patatrons megasquirt setup.
Modified by Residentevol at 6:15 PM 10-18-2006
This is an easy question to answer. If the car you throw this engine in has/had CIS injection, then keep the stock pump set up. It will be more than sufficient for your needs. If the pump is dead or is a later model, then go for a Walbro inline or Bosch Motorsports "044". Either one can work great. The Bosch has a clear flow advantage at high fuel pressures, runs quieter, and is probably longer-lived. As for the injectors, go for some 630cc and run them at 3.5bar fuel pressure.
We can supply all of these bits. My only question regards which type of 3.5bar fuel pressure you can use. There are two versions. One fits the Corrado G60 rail (pictured below) and the other is the type that you see in the VR6 and 1.8T engines (seen above). Did you purchase an fpr adaptor with your rail?
yes and I bought it with an FPR that fits onto the rail itself I think it is either a 3 or 3.5 bar so I believe I am good to go in that compartment...my other question is I have a megasquirt setup and I read on your site that low impedance injectors may be used on some standalone...do you know if I will be able to use those with megasquirt? They sound like the better choice but I dont want to buy the wrong ones!
Thank you very much for the informative response I really appreciate the work and effort you guys do for us Vortexers!
Im not to sure of the fuel system that will be on the car but I will remember your suggestion if its CIS to keep it. the cars in germany that are all pre 1980 (the ones I am looking for) all seem to be carb'd engines what kind of pump did those use?
The FPR I have looks like the bottom picture. But I also have a 3 bar which looks like the top pic...
Modified by Residentevol at 7:13 PM 10-19-2006
Quote, originally posted by Residentevol » yes and I bought it with an FPR that fits onto the rail itself I think it is either a 3 or 3.5 bar so I believe I am good to go in that compartment
Well, you're surely good to go if you've got a 3.5bar. If you have a 3bar, then you'll simply have to lower your output expectations a bit.
Quote » do you know if I will be able to use those with megasquirt? They sound like the better choice but I dont want to buy the wrong ones!
Ask Pat if he set your box up to accept the low-impedance injectors. In this case, though, it really doesn't matter. My recommendation is to go with the Siemens 630cc injectors which are available in high-impedance only. These will idle just fine with careful tuning.
Quote » Thank you very much for the informative response I really appreciate the work and effort you guys do for us Vortexers!
Thanks for voicing your appreciation. It keeps us motivated over here!
Quote » Im not to sure of the fuel system that will be on the car but I will remember your suggestion if its CIS to keep it. the cars in germany that are all pre 1980 (the ones I am looking for) all seem to be carb'd engines what kind of pump did those use?
If the car was originally carbed, it'll be set up with a low-pressure pump. This will need to be replaced. If you get a CIS car, then you have the option to retain that pump (assuming that it is still functional, of course). These are all ancient parts, though, and since the pump is so important, it may behoove you to invest in a new one anyway.
Quote » The FPR I have looks like the bottom picture. But I also have a 3 bar which looks like the top pic...
They all work the same. My advice is to use a 3.5bar of either variety. Go with what ever fits the adaptor that you purchased.
Yes, the 630cc will be overkill, but there's nothing wrong with running a very low duty cycle. For 300whp -the upper end of your revised output goal -the Genesis 550cc would be perfect. They've definitely got the optimal spray pattern. However, they're the same length as the non-AEB 1.8T injectors (and are thusely about 8mm too short for the BBM rail). The Siemens 630cc at 3bar have a decent spray pattern and will fit your BBM rail directly. With the standalone management, tuning for idle with the 550cc or 630cc will not be a problem at all.
In short, the Genesis 550cc are the best-performing option *if* you extend the fuel rail extension tubes. The Siemens 630cc will work just fine in your 16v, however, and will drop right in. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
I am in the process of returboing my rwd 2.9 vr6 corrado, she's getting a pt67. I run Dta pro 8, aeromotive 1000 pump lines and filters/reg, -10 feed to pump,-8 feed to rail and -6 return. I need a set of injectors for my setup, fuel rail is 5/8 id and now te short runner is holding ford green tops. I need injector that will fit in there place and support 500whp.
Okay, this is an easy one. Run some Siemens 630cc injectors at 3.5bar and you should be perfect. This assumes that you're doing what you're doing on pump gas. With race fuel or water/alcohol injection you can make do with 580cc at 3bar. The 630cc are still advantageous, though, because they have a superior spray pattern with significantly better fuel atomization, too. Your DTA will be able to control larger injectors just fine, so you might as well go with the big guns.
Kudos to you, btw. You've taken no shortcuts with your fuel system so far. Do it once. Do it right!
Ive installed your 42lb injectors in my obd1 vr6, along with c2's software and spacer. I ran into a problem with my intercooler and am now considering a water/meth set up spraying into a kinetic stage 1 turbo to TB hose. My question is whether or not it would be acceptable to be running the car at a low boost setting(9 psi unintercooled) with that much fuel until I get the meth kti since this set up is pretty much what c2 calls thier 17psi fueling kit.
Modified by rado_speed at 5:54 PM 11-14-2006
Remember that even the biggest/baddest turbo engine is normally aspirated until the boost hits. So, although your C2 software is set up to supply fuel at engine loads that you'll never see right now, it is also just as dialed in for the lighter loads (from idle to 9psi) that you *will* see. Your air/fuel curve will not be any richer than normal even with the big injectors. You'll simply run a very low injector duty cycle which "wastes" the big injector's fuel flow potential. It's kind of like using a 911 Turbo only for getting groceries, dropping the kids off at the soccer game, etc.
Without an IC, however, your intake temperatures will be significantly higher than it was before. Again, you're not going to run any richer with this set up. So, you won't have the cooling effect of a very rich mixture. The water/alcohol injection (WAI) will serve as your primary defense against heat-related detonation.
With that said, you should be able to get along fairly well without either the IC or the WAI so long as you drive lightly. If you get a little bit too happy with the throttle, your knock sensor will pick up any noise and will prompt the ECU to retard the timing. That's no big deal. However, if you really get silly, you'll unleash the wrath of the hotrod gods.
I've asked this a few times in different threads but I'd like to hear from you Scott.
With the Walbro pump....is that pump fine on it's own? Meaning if I ditch my factory pump and accumulator should this pump hold up fine? Running SDS EFI... with you 580cc injectors.
Oh and one other question... it may be a stupid one but there are two small plastic things on the + and - terminals on the pump... are they supposed to stay on there?