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    Thread: Best 4-cyl & 6-cyl engines

    1. 08-16-2005 04:32 PM #36
      I'm a Subaru guy - but when it comes to cheap, reliable, powerfull fours with a ton of aftermarket support and swapability - I'm going to have to go with the 4G63T.


    2. 08-16-2005 04:45 PM #37
      inline 4 - Honda K series, Nissan SR
      inline 6 - BMW and Nissan RB
      V6 - Nissan VQ and Honda J series


      Modified by psteng19 at 8:50 AM 8-17-2005

    3. 08-16-2005 05:00 PM #38
      Low emissions, low maintenance, good fuel economy, good power, smooth and durable.

      FS: PNY GeForce 2010 Video cards - $10 for 1 or $25 for all 4

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post85839023

    4. Member paskal's Avatar
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      08-16-2005 05:37 PM #39
      Quote, originally posted by WannaCorrado »
      new BMW inline 6 hands down.

      The BMW inline six-cylinder engine has long been recognized as one of the very few truly superb powerplants of the automotive industry. And the new 3.0-liter, 24-valve version of the celebrated BMW inline six-cylinder engine continues this tradition, offering even greater power, refinement, response, and efficiency.

      This new engine features a number of pioneering technologies, including Valvetronic and an electronically controlled water pump that uses less power than conventional pumps, which contributes to the engine’s increased power output. And the new engine block, made of an advanced, lightweight composite magnesium/aluminum, increases the engine’s overall power-to-weight ratio.


    5. 08-16-2005 05:51 PM #40
      How about the best of both worlds?

    6. 08-16-2005 10:31 PM #41
      Quote, originally posted by Uber Wagon »
      I would say Honda's VTEC Four cylinders for 4-Cylinders.

      And BMW Straight six for six cylinders.

      Never figured out the availability of parts, because I never had any problems...

      If cost is a factor, Honda's DOHC non vtec's arent bad either!


    7. Senior Member VarianceVQ's Avatar
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      08-16-2005 10:44 PM #42
      4-cylinder:

      The 1.8T may nevar lose but the KA24DE can nevar die.

      6-cylinder:

      The Nissan VQ is damn versatile and is probably the best V6 engine ever made.

      BMW is most likely the NA inline-6 king.

      Esi ϟ Disi

    8. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      08-16-2005 10:47 PM #43
      you people which keep suggesting these bigass DOHC 4 and 6 cylinder motors are forgetting the points outlined below by the original poster:

      Quote, originally posted by 3wheelinWolf »

      Criteria to consider:

      1. Weight
      2. Cost to build
      3. Complexity
      4. FI or NA
      5. Realistic gross HP/TQ
      6. Running temps
      7. Emissions
      8. Engine/parts availability

      1. DOHC motors are heavier than SOHC. that's a fact.
      2. DOHC motors have many more parts in them, and cost more to build as well as more to do machine work on.
      3. DOHC motors are more complex than the equivalent SOHC by the same manufacturer.
      4. DOHC motors are often tougher to turbocharge or add superchargers to.
      5. DOHC motors do have the advantage for horsepower and torque, but an SOHC motor can be brought right up to those levels with some proper port/polish, valve grind, flow match, and cam work.
      6. DOHC motors run hotter than equivalent SOHC motor by same manufacturer.
      7. emissions aren't that much better (or worse) from a DOHC than they are from an SOHC. there's no real advantage here.
      8. parts availability shouldn't matter. but it should be noted that there's a whole lot less parts to hunt down for an SOHC than there are for a DOHC motor.

      yeah, i love Cosworth BDTs as much as the next guy, but the answer to this thread clearly calls for what you'd consider if you were going to perform a swap. i'd rather plug in those FIVE simple electrical connections to a SOHC carbed motor than mess with the rat's nest of the electrical nightmare known as a Honda, BMW, Porsche, Toyota, Nissan, or similar wiring harness.

      obin

      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    9. 08-16-2005 10:56 PM #44
      Quote, originally posted by Obin Robinson »
      you people which keep suggesting these bigass DOHC 4 and 6 cylinder motors are forgetting the points outlined below by the original poster:

      1. DOHC motors are heavier than SOHC. that's a fact.
      2. DOHC motors have many more parts in them, and cost more to build as well as more to do machine work on.
      3. DOHC motors are more complex than the equivalent SOHC by the same manufacturer.
      4. DOHC motors are often tougher to turbocharge or add superchargers to.
      5. DOHC motors do have the advantage for horsepower and torque, but an SOHC motor can be brought right up to those levels with some proper port/polish, valve grind, flow match, and cam work.
      6. DOHC motors run hotter than equivalent SOHC motor by same manufacturer.
      7. emissions aren't that much better (or worse) from a DOHC than they are from an SOHC. there's no real advantage here.
      8. parts availability shouldn't matter. but it should be noted that there's a whole lot less parts to hunt down for an SOHC than there are for a DOHC motor.

      yeah, i love Cosworth BDTs as much as the next guy, but the answer to this thread clearly calls for what you'd consider if you were going to perform a swap. i'd rather plug in those FIVE simple electrical connections to a SOHC carbed motor than mess with the rat's nest of the electrical nightmare known as a Honda, BMW, Porsche, Toyota, Nissan, or similar wiring harness.

      obin


      Yay! I was beginning to wonder if anyone remembered...

      Are any of these motors comparabl in terms of weight? If possible I'd like to stay as close to 50/50 as I can get.


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      08-16-2005 10:59 PM #45
      here's my list... not in any particular order.


      1: Honda's 3.5 V6
      2: Nissan's 3.5 VQ series V6
      3: Volkswagen's 4-cylinder TDI engines
      4: BMW's Inline 6


    11. 08-16-2005 11:01 PM #46
      My vote for the 4 cylinder is the 1600cc VW aicooled engine.

      1. Weight: I can lift it, so its pretty light.
      2. Cost to Build: Probably THE cheapest engine to build.
      3. Complexity: Pushrods and a crankcase, not even a water pump.
      4. FI or NA: FI is always a possibility, but NA is generally the way to go.
      5. Realistic gross HP/TQ: Ok we're lacking here, but theres good potential with a few mods!
      6. Running Temps: Once again, a little iffy, afterall it is aircooled. But hey their all over the place in Mexico, so their not THAT bad.
      7. Emissions: Considering how old it is the emissions arent that bad.
      8. Engine/parts availability: Its a VW Beetle engine, the most successful selling car in the world, finding one is easy, and parts are unbelievably cheap and easy to come across.


    12. 08-16-2005 11:03 PM #47
      Quote, originally posted by HarryHood »
      Has anyone seriously explored the possibility of swapping one of Saab's 2.3l four cylinder engines (i.e., the 230/250 hp, 258 lb-ft versions found in the 9-5 Aero and 9-3 Viggen) into something? Those engines are jewels, torque monsters that could cause serious damage if stuffed into a RWD car. I've seen a classic 900 with that engine swapped in, but no one else seems dumb enough to do it.

      Anyone?

      I posted a video of just such a beast once upon a time. Forget what I titled the topic, but it's here. Saab 2.3 turbo into a rwd Ford Sierra...

      call it potatography

    13. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      08-16-2005 11:13 PM #48
      Quote, originally posted by Obin Robinson »
      1. DOHC motors are heavier than SOHC. that's a fact.
      2. DOHC motors have many more parts in them, and cost more to build as well as more to do machine work on.
      3. DOHC motors are more complex than the equivalent SOHC by the same manufacturer.
      4. DOHC motors are often tougher to turbocharge or add superchargers to.
      5. DOHC motors do have the advantage for horsepower and torque, but an SOHC motor can be brought right up to those levels with some proper port/polish, valve grind, flow match, and cam work.
      6. DOHC motors run hotter than equivalent SOHC motor by same manufacturer.
      7. emissions aren't that much better (or worse) from a DOHC than they are from an SOHC. there's no real advantage here.
      8. parts availability shouldn't matter. but it should be noted that there's a whole lot less parts to hunt down for an SOHC than there are for a DOHC motor.

      yeah, i love Cosworth BDTs as much as the next guy, but the answer to this thread clearly calls for what you'd consider if you were going to perform a swap. i'd rather plug in those FIVE simple electrical connections to a SOHC carbed motor than mess with the rat's nest of the electrical nightmare known as a Honda, BMW, Porsche, Toyota, Nissan, or similar wiring harness.

      obin

      1. The weight difference between a DOHC and SOHC four is negligible. The Honda K20 DOHC weighs about the same as one of their D17 SOHC engines. Those old SOHC iron block engines were HEAVY!
      2. True, if you're machining the head, but for most part this won't be necessary for a newer engine. You don't need to port the DOHC/16v head because it already flows better out of the box than a race-ported SOHC/8v head. This is proven fact for the case of Mopar 2.2 8v vs. 2.0 16v.
      3. One more cam, eight more valves and cam followers.
      4. I can't think of a case where this is true. In fact many SOHC/8v engines are more difficult because they're counterflow, packing intake and exhaust on one side of the motor and leaving little room for a compressor.
      5. See #2
      6. Possibly, if you're producing more power from a smaller unit there will be more waste heat, but the combustion and cooling will be more efficient from a more modern engine.
      7. Sometimes. Most SOHC engines are older designs.
      8. Cams are sold in pairs and valves are sold in sets of 16 for DOHC engines so there's nothing more to hunt down.

      I'd rather plug in a nice simple Honda or Chrysler engine harness than deal with needle valves and floats and jets and junk.

      Splinter - Team Post-Killing Ninja
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    14. Member jddaigle's Avatar
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      08-17-2005 12:02 AM #49
      Quote, originally posted by rx7racr »
      Volvo B230FT!

      +1000 ! Reliable, durable, cheap, powerful, tuneable. What's not to like?

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      08-17-2005 02:23 AM #50
      I'm a new car fan, so I would say the best 4-cylinder is hands-down the 2.0T FSI from audi/volkswagen...the engine simply kicks ass. For best V6's I have a few that are worthy of mention. Nissan's fabulous VQ, VW's VR6 and BMW's inline 6. All kickass engines.

    16. Geriatric Member EK20's Avatar
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      08-17-2005 03:14 AM #51
      Best four cylinder?

      "Do you know the terror of he who falls asleep?
      To the very toes he is terrified, because the ground gives way under him, and the dream begins."
      ~Friedrich Nietzsche

    17. 08-17-2005 03:18 AM #52
      Quote, originally posted by serrano »
      I'm a Subaru guy - but when it comes to cheap, reliable, powerfull fours with a ton of aftermarket support and swapability - I'm going to have to go with the 4G63T.

      CRANK-WALK

      SR20DET beats the 4G63 hands down. Yeah, the 4G63 is great in the Evo but whatever @#^%ed up version we got in the states is a pile of crap. Engines don't seem to last past 150k miles, are expenisve to maintain and countless people have blown engines or crank walk well before 75k miles.

      Just cause you can shove +P+ into a Glock 17, doesn't mean you should.


    18. 08-17-2005 03:56 AM #53
      I'm going to have to nominate my own motor....

      The Ford 2.5L Duratec V6.

      A lot of the other stuff on my car might be crap, but that motor has never given me any issues at all. Plus, you can slap a couple of turbos on it and you have the Noble M12 GTO




      Modified by Dekz at 9:52 AM 8-17-2005


    19. 08-17-2005 08:06 AM #54
      Quote, originally posted by paskal »

      The BMW inline six-cylinder engine has long been recognized as one of the very few truly superb powerplants of the automotive industry. And the new 3.0-liter, 24-valve version of the celebrated BMW inline six-cylinder engine continues this tradition, offering even greater power, refinement, response, and efficiency.

      This new engine features a number of pioneering technologies, including Valvetronic and an electronically controlled water pump that uses less power than conventional pumps, which contributes to the engine’s increased power output. And the new engine block, made of an advanced, lightweight composite magnesium/aluminum, increases the engine’s overall power-to-weight ratio.


      In my opinion,it's the best 6-cyl engine ever made

    20. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      08-17-2005 08:44 AM #55
      Quote, originally posted by AKADriver »

      I'd rather plug in a nice simple Honda or Chrysler engine harness than deal with needle valves and floats and jets and junk.

      i'd rather not have to worry about messing with an inteference engine. that's a key point about the Kent and Datsun motors. not only are they light, simple, tough, and small, but if you bust a timing belt then you won't have any significant damage done when the piston whacks the valve. sure there are SOHC engines that are interference design, but there's hundreds of ones that aren't. how many non-interference DOHC engines can you think of?

      keep it SOHC and keep it simple.

      obin

      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    21. Member ZeroTalon's Avatar
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      08-17-2005 10:08 AM #56
      I'll second the Jeep 4.0 I6 that's already been mentioned. This engine could survive a nuclear blast.

      For balls-out performance, there's nothing like the good ol' Buick Turbo 6. Quite possibly the easiest V6 to modify to push a car into the 10s.


    22. Member axe's Avatar
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      08-17-2005 10:17 AM #57
      Quote, originally posted by HarryHood »
      Has anyone seriously explored the possibility of swapping one of Saab's 2.3l four cylinder engines (i.e., the 230/250 hp, 258 lb-ft versions found in the 9-5 Aero and 9-3 Viggen) into something? Those engines are jewels, torque monsters that could cause serious damage if stuffed into a RWD car. I've seen a classic 900 with that engine swapped in, but no one else seems dumb enough to do it.

      Anyone?


      Hell yes!

      SAAB B235R

      █ ♣ █ + | Sunlight on chrome, the blur of the landscape... every nerve aware

    23. 08-17-2005 10:27 AM #58
      how about the drake engines, ex http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1626478
      hehe 1100hp

    24. 08-17-2005 10:36 AM #59
      Quote, originally posted by 3wheelinWolf »
      The VQ, I would imagine is expensive to purchase and get it tuned.


      all the vq's are becoming more common, but not sure about tuning $$$


    25. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      08-17-2005 10:52 AM #60
      Quote, originally posted by Obin Robinson »


      keep it SOHC and keep it simple.

      obin

      You must REALLY like most VW motors, except the most recent.


    26. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      08-17-2005 10:53 AM #61
      Quote, originally posted by Obin Robinson »
      how many non-interference DOHC engines can you think of?

      ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... (think of the opening to "Kyle's mom's a bitch" here)
      There's the 4A-G,
      and the 3S-G,
      and the Corolla and MR2's 1ZZ,
      Mazda's B6-DE,
      and the BP-DE,
      and the 323 GTX B6-T.

      Nissan's valvetrains take the crown,
      their timing chains aren't gonna break on down!
      The SR, the KA, the FJ, the GA -
      their valves will never go to piston-town!

      Americans are joining the non-crash game,
      or investing themselves in timing chains.
      The Zetec will live in two-liter form.
      The Neon's two-point-oh won't, but try the two-point-four!
      GM's Quad-four has a chain,
      but broken or not, it sounds the same...

      Honda's been a stalwart of
      valves crashing down from above.
      But the K20 and the K24
      don't have that problem anymore.

      Two-cam fours are nothing to fear!
      New cars abandoned their one-cam peers!
      Sixteen valves have done it again,
      let's hear it for 0x10!

      Splinter - Team Post-Killing Ninja
      I don't practice llanteria

    27. 08-17-2005 11:21 AM #62
      Vauxhall/Opel C20XE and C20LET (google em).

      XE = 156bhp from 16v 4-cyl and was rally proven in the Mk2 Astra.
      LET = turbo charged version of the XE with 204bhp and sold in the Calibra and Cavalier (4x4/6speed). I have one of these and with a rebuild, and some aftermarket management it can go further than 400bhp


    28. 08-17-2005 11:35 AM #63
      Quote, originally posted by Corbic »
      CRANK-WALK

      SR20DET beats the 4G63 hands down. Yeah, the 4G63 is great in the Evo but whatever @#^%ed up version we got in the states is a pile of crap. Engines don't seem to last past 150k miles, are expenisve to maintain and countless people have blown engines or crank walk well before 75k miles.

      Avoid 92-94 7-bolt motors.


    29. 08-17-2005 11:42 AM #64
      Quote, originally posted by AKADriver »
      ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... (think of the opening to "Kyle's mom's a bitch" here)
      There's the 4A-G,
      and the 3S-G,
      and the Corolla and MR2's 1ZZ,
      Mazda's B6-DE,
      and the BP-DE,
      and the 323 GTX B6-T.

      Nissan's valvetrains take the crown,
      their timing chains aren't gonna break on down!
      The SR, the KA, the FJ, the GA -
      their valves will never go to piston-town!

      Americans are joining the non-crash game,
      or investing themselves in timing chains.
      The Zetec will live in two-liter form.
      The Neon's two-point-oh won't, but try the two-point-four!
      GM's Quad-four has a chain,
      but broken or not, it sounds the same...

      Honda's been a stalwart of
      valves crashing down from above.
      But the K20 and the K24
      don't have that problem anymore.

      Two-cam fours are nothing to fear!
      New cars abandoned their one-cam peers!
      Sixteen valves have done it again,
      let's hear it for 0x10!

      that's was amazing.


    30. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      08-17-2005 12:16 PM #65
      Quote, originally posted by AKADriver »
      There's the 4A-G,
      and the 3S-G,
      and the Corolla and MR2's 1ZZ,
      Mazda's B6-DE,
      and the BP-DE,
      and the 323 GTX B6-T.

      neat, but don't forget to keep it cheap and to the original poster's specs too.

      obin

      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    31. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      08-17-2005 12:45 PM #66
      Those are all relatively cheap engines, and actually most of them are unique among modern DOHC engines in that they can be set up with longitudinal drivetrains, too. I think out of that whole list only the Honda K20/K24, Toyota 1ZZ, and Nissan GA16DE don't have readily available longitudinal transmissions.

      Parts are everywhere, they're all relatively light, etc.

      Lots of Lotus kits are built using the 4A-GE from the AE86, the Ford Zetec, or the B6/BP from the Miata. The SR20DE, KA24DE, and FJ20E are popular as conversions for old Datsun roadsters and 510s. I've seen a few rail dragsters built using the Neon engine, running as low as 8's. I even saw a whole issue of an old school hot rodding mag devoted to the GM Quad4 because they loved the way it looks like an old Offy when you take the coilpack cover off.

      Splinter - Team Post-Killing Ninja
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    32. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      08-17-2005 12:55 PM #67
      yeah, a few of the ones you mentioned i would consider to be good and "swappable" as well. especially the Toyota, Ford, and Nissan ones.

      one thing that should be brought up is...

      just what kind of car are we talking about swapping these motors into? i've been going by the assumption that we're talking about something like an old Ford Capri, BMW 2002, Datsun 510, or other front engine/rear drive car. those are the easiest cars to do swaps with as well as the cars which will accept the widest array of engines. trying to cram a V6 into a small front wheel drive engine bay is a task that's way harder than trying to get it into something like the engine bay of a 1974 Datsun Z.

      obin

      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    33. 08-17-2005 01:02 PM #68
      The 2.OT is a a sweet engine,


    34. 08-17-2005 01:25 PM #69
      Quote, originally posted by That vw guy »
      The 2.OT is a a sweet engine,

      unfortunately, that motor is super complex when compared to the majority of motors mentioned.


    35. 08-17-2005 02:03 PM #70
      BMW I6 and Honda H22A

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