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    Thread: Ooops, I let the smoke out of some wires... (window issues)

    1. Member VeeDubDriver1990's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 12:55 AM #1
      You know the old saying: "If you short something out, it doesn't work
      because you let the smoke out"
      Well, it happened today Nothing major, just messed up
      my stereo. But something led up to this...
      I washed my car, but at home It was really dusty this week;
      washing was the only option.
      Did a pretty decent job- cleaned the "wheels" and dried it off. This
      time, it didn't leak any drops inside
      Moved out to the street, put the top down, and went for a 4:07 minute
      ride (timed it with a song from the CD player).
      I then put the windows up, left the doors open slightly, put the top up,
      and shut the doors. Didn't bother locking it 'cuz my idiot brother was
      in the driveway and I had to move when he left
      Anyway, 2 hours later, I went to the door and saw that my left window
      was almost completely down (with a 1/4" to go down)
      So I went to put it up. I heard clicking, but the thing wasn't going up
      Then tried the passenger side window- nothing Neither
      will go up or down
      An interesting symptom- When the left switch is operated, a
      click is heard (same tone) when in the up or down position. But the
      right one has a less noticible click when it's in the down position.
      Things I did to check it:
      -Fuse: The first thing I always check with problems. Lights up like a
      Christmas tree.
      -Switches: I have 11.9V at the switches. Tried jumping the things with
      a paperclip (inserted ends on the power wires, then grounded them to
      no avail)- didn't work [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG] But tried seeing if there was any
      power with a test light and it wouldn't light
      Took voltage of the switches when in the up and down position, 11.8V
      for UP, 6.8mV for DOWN.
      -Motor: Removed the left door panel (first time ever, easier than I
      thought ) to get to the motor. Unplugged it and tested for
      voltage (at connector)- same as above.
      Now for the stupid thing...
      I decided to use a 12V source to try to operate the motor (it was late
      and it's gonna rain tomorrow, of course). I attached the paper clips
      and jumper wires to their appropriate connections on the motor.
      Grounded one and wanted to power the other. Had a "brilliant thought"
      to go through the cigar lighter (PS- NEVER do this!) for power. SPARK,
      POP, and... release smoke
      It shorted out in there- the lead was too wide
      Then decided a smarter thing to do would be to go directly to the
      battery (which I should have done first, but I was lazy). Did that, the
      window arose from the depths of the door prison like a phoenix
      Conclusions? The motor's not bad. The module clicks (but I suspect
      it's bad 'cuz with VWs, it's never anything cheap ). The switches
      appear to be okay. I'm an idiot. But, I got the window up before
      it rains And I fixed the fuse I blew from the cigar/radio/clock,
      but the fuse inside the stereo is still blown, so it won't play CDs
      The Bentely diagram was not really a help, but I will use ALLDATA
      tomorrow to see how helpful that can be. Any ideas of what can be the
      problem?


      Modified by VeeDubDriver1990 at 1:28 AM 9-26-2005

    2. Member Black_cabbie's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 01:07 AM #2
      If you hear the relay in the control box clicking but the window is not going up you have two scenarios. Either the motor is fried or the connectors (there are 2) are loose. One is inside the door right next to the motor and the other is close to the rubber boot where the door opens.
      I would remove the panel and try to drive the motor from a 12V source directly.
      Chip Tuning for a living @ www.microchips-tuning.com

    3. Member kamzcab86's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 01:12 AM #3
      Power window problem? You don't say.....
      Cabby-Info.com -- Your online guide to VW Cabriolets/Rabbit Convertibles
      Old Blue's Blog -- The adventures of a 1990 Westfalia
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    4. Member Black_cabbie's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 01:13 AM #4
      Quote, originally posted by kamzcab86 »
      Power window problem? You don't say.....

      ahem....Not everybody had problem with their power windows
      Chip Tuning for a living @ www.microchips-tuning.com

    5. Member VeeDubDriver1990's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 01:31 AM #5
      Quote, originally posted by kamzcab86 »
      Power window problem? You don't say.....

      Aren't we thanking our lucky stars there isn't any sort of
      "luxury items" in our Cab?
      Thanks for the quick reply, George [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] I added more to the
      original post- read that to see what you think about the gremlins then.

    6. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 01:33 AM #6
      Chris,
      The power window circuit thread...
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2126843
      Ron
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    7. Member VeeDubDriver1990's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 01:41 AM #7
      I should have mentioned that I read that before, which is why I posted
      this
      I get voltage and hear clicks. I will check the PWCU in the morning. It
      gets tough on your back to position yourself like a bat to see that
      thing to work on it...
      I may just remove the knee bar. There's only those 3 bolts on each
      side, plus a tricky one on each side that bolts to the top dash, right?

    8. Member Black_cabbie's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 01:44 AM #8
      The control module is under the glove box. Measure if you get 12V when the switch clicks.
      Maybe the second plug is loose. It should be arround the fusebox area.



      Modified by Black_cabbie at 7:47 AM 9-26-2005
      Chip Tuning for a living @ www.microchips-tuning.com

    9. Member VeeDubDriver1990's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 01:55 AM #9
      Quote, originally posted by Black_cabbie »
      The control module is under the glove box. Measure if you get 12V when the switch clicks.
      Maybe the second plug is loose. It should be arround the fusebox area.

      Okay- will try that [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      The "second plug" you're talking about...is that behind the fuse box
      where the wires meet the box? I may have to get someone's help if
      you get into the colors 'cuz I'm colorblind and don't want to let the
      smoke out again.

    10. Member Black_cabbie's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 01:58 AM #10
      Follow the wires from the motor to the control box. One plug is right next to the motor and the second one is probably right after the rubber boot you see when you open the door. It should be somewhere in the fusebox area.
      Chip Tuning for a living @ www.microchips-tuning.com

    11. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 08:22 AM #11
      Quote, originally posted by VeeDubDriver1990 »
      You know the old saying: "If you short something out, it doesn't work
      because you let the smoke out"
      I washed my car, but at home It was really dusty this week;
      washing was the only option.
      Did a pretty decent job- cleaned the "wheels" and dried it off. This
      time, it didn't leak any drops inside :

      Ah ha you have made a good assumption, however it is a little off.
      If your seals on your heater box fresh air cover are leaking, and your screws are not tight on your connectors or those that are used in the controller holding brackets, you are setting your self up for failure.
      The controller sits under the heater box fresh air cover and can have water drip on it if your foam rubber seal that the heater box under the rain tray is defective...After 10 years that closed cell foam will be giving out. Also if your rain tray drains are not cleaned out from the leaves and crapola they will cause rain/water to damn up and possibly lead to water migration of under the lip of the heater box cover and drip right on your window controller. If your rain tray isn't in place or missing then water can be directed over areas that the VW engineers thought my be best to have minimum water get to....
      Just because you didn't get any water under the seals for the windows, and your windshield dosen't have any rust around it, dosen't mean that you can rest assured that the water won't get under the dash.
      All screws on mine that go throught the rain tray have been removed and sealed with neoprene washers and silicone to keep water migration problems to a minimum. I have also removed the fresh air intake of the heater box and replaced all the foam. Once you have this big assed plastic off then you will see where water can migrate to, and if you look closely enough...it is the window controller...that you see through the hole, and the way that the wires may be positioned water can run right down to the connector.
      Also if you installed your radio, I hope that you soldered and heat shrinked all your connections. If your radio unit had a powered antenna lead and you didn't cap it, then it can cause things to short out.
      Yes installing an after market radio should be painless, but you have to have saftey, and fore thought prior. You can't do twist the wires and tape.
      Just my two cents.

    12. Member backinthegame's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 11:54 AM #12
      A quick easy test is to pull both switches out, then one switch at a time try both windows with each switch. they share most of the same circuit and if one switch is bad, it will many times screw up the other (notice you can never roll both windows down at the same time).
      Sent from my Droid using an escape pod to Tattoine.


      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      they're trying to skip out on their contracts via rapture. not very christian of them

    13. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 12:01 PM #13
      make sure that your courtesy lamp is on with the doors open because it if is in the always off your window power is off with only the switch on off the battery

    14. Member VeeDubDriver1990's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 12:48 PM #14
      Thanks for the help, Paul and Brian [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      I tested the switches (by pulling one and trying to operate the other),
      but it didn't work last night.
      My radio was already installed (for quite a while now, actually ). I
      most likely won't ever be attempting that myself- I'll leave that to the
      knuckleheads at Circuit City Speakers are a bit different,
      though Speaking of...speakers, when I pulled the door card and
      had to remove the speaker/grille, the thing was only hooked up using
      "quick connects" Which, by the way, came out and
      had to be placed in such a way that they'd stay put.
      The courtesy lamp is blown, but it's got a bad bulb (and has for some
      time now) so it's kinda hard to tell if it's working or not.
      The thing about the water seeping in through the rain tray is really
      something to ponder, Brian... I keep it as clean as I can, but the fresh
      air inlet has that vacuum thing near it that's loose in the tray. Maybe
      moisture is getting in through there?
      In any case, I will probably have to pull the dash Or at least the
      knee bar.
      Only the 3 bolts on each side of the bar, right?

    15. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 12:54 PM #15
      If you don't have a dome light make sure that the switch is in the proper position it will kill power to the window motors when the key is on and the motor not running...

    16. Member VeeDubDriver1990's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 09:39 PM #16
      Update:
      I thought if I gave the module some time to dry (if it was wet) over
      night, it would be okay. Nope I still get clicks but neither
      window budges
      Didn't have time to check it out today- took the Corrado to work and
      school 'cuz it's still kinda uncomfortable weather-wise to only use the
      fresh air fan
      Oh, here's a question for everyone-
      When you have functional windows and you drive the Cab for a little
      while and you shut it off, are they still supposed to operate when you
      have the key in your hand?

    17. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 10:01 PM #17
      Chris,
      Quote, originally posted by VeeDubDriver1990 »
      ...... are they still supposed to operate when you have the key in your hand?

      There is a timer that allows the windows to remain operable for a few minutes after turning the ignition off or until you open either door, whichever precedes the other.
      Ron
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    18. Member VeeDubDriver1990's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 10:03 PM #18
      Thanks Ron Another potential problem crossed off the list...

    19. Member kamzcab86's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 10:08 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by VeeDubDriver1990 »
      Oh, here's a question for everyone-
      When you have functional windows and you drive the Cab for a little
      while and you shut it off, are they still supposed to operate when you
      have the key in your hand?

      Yes, yes they do; even half an hour later they still work ... wait, you're asking everyone with power windows that question.
      Cabby-Info.com -- Your online guide to VW Cabriolets/Rabbit Convertibles
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    20. Member VeeDubDriver1990's Avatar
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      09-26-2005 10:11 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by kamzcab86 »
      Yes, yes they do; even half an hour later they still work ... wait, you're asking everyone with power windows that question.


      I was actually strongly considering the conversion today...

    21. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      09-27-2005 07:51 AM #21
      wait, you don't have power windows too Kammy? Also the power to the doors after the engine is off only works in conjunction with the dome light....

    22. Member kamzcab86's Avatar
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      09-27-2005 02:50 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by briano1234 »
      wait, you don't have power windows too Kammy?

      Arm power [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      (Power windows are 1990+)
      Cabby-Info.com -- Your online guide to VW Cabriolets/Rabbit Convertibles
      Old Blue's Blog -- The adventures of a 1990 Westfalia
      "Fashion is a waste of money that could be better spent on, say, maintaining your car." ~James May

    23. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      09-27-2005 03:16 PM #23
      What else would I expect from a pole dancing crime fighting super heroine..... that has her own set of tools....


      Modified by briano1234 at 3:18 PM 9-27-2005

    24. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      09-27-2005 09:54 PM #24
      Quote, originally posted by briano1234 »
      What else would I expect from a pole dancing crime fighting super heroine..... that has her own set of tools........

      She even has her own Brand of Tools, CraftsWoman!!
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    25. Member kamzcab86's Avatar
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      09-27-2005 10:37 PM #25
      [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      And now back to Chris' regularly scheduled thread.
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      Old Blue's Blog -- The adventures of a 1990 Westfalia
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