USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection

[Scott@USRT]

Sure, the water pump is 8" long, approximate 4" tall (including rubber mount pieces), and 4" wide at the mounting bracket. The tank measures 6.5" x 4" x 5". That kind of volume lasts about a week in my friends 500whp Mustang. He's got no space under his hood, so he stuck both his pump and tank in the trunk. They're stashed behind his interior trim panels with Dynamat applied to muffle sound. It's a really slick set up. The kit in my Scirocco is installed on the floor behind the passenger's seat. However, most folks just keep everything under the hood.

[ruso]

Quote, originally posted by Scott@USRT »

Sure, the water pump is 8" long, approximate 4" tall (including rubber mount pieces), and 4" wide at the mounting bracket. The tank measures 6.5" x 4" x 5". That kind of volume lasts about a week in my friends 500whp Mustang. He's got no space under his hood, so he stuck both his pump and tank in the trunk. They're stashed behind his interior trim panels with Dynamat applied to muffle sound. It's a really slick set up. The kit in my Scirocco is installed on the floor behind the passenger's seat. However, most folks just keep everything under the hood.

Ok, so does the pump carry similar noise characteristics as an in-line fuel pump?

[Scott@USRT]

Quote, originally posted by ruso »

Ok, so does the pump carry similar noise characteristics as an in-line fuel pump?

Mmm... nah, it isn't as high-pitched and whiny as that. Rather, it's more of a strong hum. When mounted on the rubber standoffs it's not annoying at all. The reason why my Mustang buddy used the Dynamat is because he put the pump inside the car. Fwiw, I used no sound deadening at all and it doesn't annoy me. Then again, I can't hear a damned thing over the ITBs or my electric power steering pump (mounted on the floor beside the Snow pump).

[rracerguy717]

Quote, originally posted by ruso »

Ok, so does the pump carry similar noise characteristics as an in-line fuel pump?

I have another company's system that uses the same pump , made a bracket and mounted it to the OEM SMIC brackets , very stealth and you dont hear anything out there . Just a few install tips . If you mount the pump with the motor side facing up, make sure you silicone around ANY and ALL opening ( where the wires go in, around outerside of the base plate and espec the weep hole ) other wise road water will find its way in the motor and short it out ( ask me how i know ) Another thing i found that helps improve the performance is i removed and blocked off / bye passed the pressure switch in the pump , you get ALOT better spray . I havnt had a chance to use it on my stage 3+ with 100 octane program ,with 93 in the tank . But i used it with good results when it was a APR ko3 100 oct program and 93 in the tank , very little timing pull and great performance IMO water / meth systems work well Bob.G

[nathankaufman]

Great kit, i'll def. have to pick one of these up this spring, once i rebuild my new ride/finally decide between a turbo kit.

The other option i was looking at, tho, was propane injection? I used to be interested in 3000gt's before i decided they were maintainence nightmares, and they were all about propane injection for detonation control.

Any idea how the water/alcohol injection compares to propane, pros and cons? Thanks!

[Scott@USRT]

Propane injection is best used to make extra power on a diesel engine -not gasoline. The addition of propane (usually pre-turbo) to any diesel engine, whether turbocharged or normally-aspirated, introduces more fuel to engine, without additional airflow. This is a big deal for a diesel and this mod can produce nice benefits if done correctly. The problem is that there simply aren't very good propane injection kits on the market. What I've seen are all fairly crude.

Now, water/alcohol injection (WAI) is a different beast entirely. Rather than primarily serving as supplementary fueling, the issue here is detonation control. With this method, octane is increased radically. So, boost or nitrous can be cranked up without detonation. WAI can be used very effectively on both gasoline and diesel engines. And, WAI can be used with propane injection on a diesel for really impressive power/torque improvements.

[TSTARKZ123]

I can use my current winshield washer container right? I have a TT with headlight washers disabled; so i have an extra hose coming out of the resevoir.

[TSTARKZ123]

also do you guys install these systems?

[Scott@USRT]

Quote, originally posted by TSTARKZ123 »

I can use my current winshield washer container right? I have a TT with headlight washers disabled; so i have an extra hose coming out of the resevoir.

Yes, you may use that resevoir instead of the one that we supply.

Quote, originally posted by TSTARKZ123 »

also do you guys install these systems?

Yes, sir. We can handle that for you.

[TSTARKZ123]

cool! whats the address?

[Scott@USRT]

Our new shop is located in South Jersey -near Philadelphia, PA. That place is still under construction, though, so we may need to do the work at another facility close by. If you're interested in getting some work done, please shoot me an IM or email.

[malcman]

Bump to keep it in my views......

[JettaRed]

Scott,

Can you give us an update on this GB? Is it still on, etc.?

Thanks!

[Scott@USRT]

Bill, the group buy is actually over. However, we've got the kits generally available. You're an influential figure around here as far as water injection is concerned. I'd be pleased to "hook you up" as the young folks say.

[ThaCorradoKid]

is this an appropriate setup for a daily driver? does it require tweaking/calibration etc. I think it looks like a good kit for a serious setup, but i'm not sure it fits what i'm shootin for.

Example: jump in car, turn key, and we're off. let sit for anywhere between 3 hours and 10 days and repeat.

Also, would a snobby rich chick complain about the noise of the pump on a late-nite cruise through some quite back roads?


Modified by ThaCorradoKid at 3:19 PM 2-13-2006

[DCGULL]

Scott, just since this 'watched topic" jumped again, there are tax refunds for you to gather. Perhaps NOW!!! is a good time to bring back the H20/meth injection GB? Just wondering out loud and all...

Dave

[Scott@USRT]

Quote, originally posted by ThaCorradoKid »

is this an appropriate setup for a daily driver? does it require tweaking/calibration etc. I think it looks like a good kit for a serious setup, but i'm not sure it fits what i'm shootin for.

Well... if your daily driver needs the detonation control that would otherwise require race gas, then yes it is entirely appropriate. For *maximum* output (which means constantly riding the edge of mechanical destruction) you certainly will need to tweak and adjust. WAI is no different then any other tuning technology in this respect.

However, you don't need to push nearly that hard to make effective use of these systems. Set it for the amount of boost that you plan to run, fuel octane, etc., and then leave it alone for the most part. Now, if the ambient air temperature drops by 50deg or if you're stuck with 87 octane fuel, then that obviously changes the engine's propensity to detonate. So, you'd change the WAI trigger settings accordingly.

Quote »

Also, would a snobby rich chick complain about the noise of the pump on a late-nite cruise through some quite back roads?

Snobby rich chicks complain about *everything* that isn't perfect like Daddy. So, get buff, earn that PhD, buy a huge house by the beach, trade the Dub for a Porsche, and *then* worry about the pump's noise.

[deliverator]

Here's a second vote for your needing to collect peoples' tax return money. Bring the group buy back and you can start with mine.

[Scott@USRT]

Alright alright! Short of doing an outright group buy, I'll temporarily offer the kits for $359 + $15 shipping. Putting USRT info in your sig for a month or two would be a nice gesture for the $40 saved.

[Baci]

SOLD! Where the hell do I sign up?

[JettaRed]

Quote, originally posted by Scott@USRT »

Alright alright! Short of doing an outright group buy, I'll temporarily offer the kits for $359 + $15 shipping. Putting USRT info in your sig for a month or two would be a nice gesture for the $40 saved.

Which kit?

[DCGULL]

signature changed! Thanks again Scott for a great Spring project that adds a lifetime of "more"...

Dave

[McNeil]

I think I want in.

[Scott@USRT]

Quote, originally posted by Baci »

SOLD! Where the hell do I sign up?

Shoot me an IM for details.

Quote, originally posted by JettaRed »

Which kit?

We're talkin' Stage II hotness with either controller, sir. That's the way to go unless you're managing the system with a standalone engine management and a high-speed solenoid.

[StrokedPSI]

What do you guys think of the integrity of the stock internals of an obd2 mk3 ABA already seeing 16psi daily on double stacked gaskets. There a few other guys that claim that 18psi is as far as I should go. Would WI be worth me looking into with stock internals?

[Scott@USRT]

Similar to high-octane fuel, water injection effectively reduces an engine's propensity for detonation. This is a good thing for any engine and is especially important for one pushed well beyond its normal limits like yours. Remember, though, that WAI doesn't *make* power by itself. Rather, it simply expands the safe performance envelope created by the actual power adders (e.g. turbo).

As for the head gasket recommendation, I'll leave that for somebody else to answer. A good source of information about this sort of thing is Paul from Boost Factory.

[enginerd]

Can probably ditch the double stacked gaskets and raise the compression and improve the quench area on the piston. The WI will tolerate boost on a higher compression engine. It will make your rods last longer only if you are detonating.

[StrokedPSI]

ring lands?

[DCGULL]

Hmmm, last few posts might be off topic? Just checking cause I think this thread is about WAI and how great Scott@USRT is to keep the price low for us craving more powa!

Scott, got it, but zero degree temps are preventing this wimp from installing it. Can't wait to "set it and forget it" like Ron Popiel suggests.

Dave

[enginerd]

yeah it's too damn cold to be working on the car right now. Ill have some dyno testing with and without water injection on my APR stg III setup when the weather gets better. I anticipate gains, and a big improvement in back to back heat soak.

[DCGULL]

Bump beause taxes are being returned and Spring is just around the corner!

[puebla]

[nutbox11]

what goes into installing one of these kits?

also if its complicated what do you charge for the install?

[Scott@USRT]

What's complicated for one person is elementary for another. With that said, though, installing a water/alky injection kit isn't really all that much of a big deal. You can find the installation instructions via the USRT website. Scroll down below the picture of the system and you'll see the link for "system installation". That'll bring up a PDF file with all the details.

[nutbox11]

you can run propane with nitrous on gas motor to get some good power. i know a guy with an older viper thats supercharged with nitrous and propane. its makin 950 to the wheels. alone propane doesnt do much but with nitrous it kits ass.