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    Thread: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection

    1. 06-13-2006 10:09 AM #106
      I beileve there are a few guys running the APR 100 program with pump gas and WAI without issues. Can't wait to get my WAI setup.

    2. 06-13-2006 01:11 PM #107
      I would love to get my hands on giac race gas file... Right now... I'm simply doing the timing advance on my own...

    3. Member Space9888's Avatar
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      06-16-2006 01:11 AM #108
      sounds worth it on my 1.8t K04erd, too bad i should do the fuel pump and injectors first
      2006 GTI oem stock

    4. 06-19-2006 08:01 PM #109
      Scott,
      Could i run this WAI on my distributer VR6 S/c with 8 psi and be safe using stock fuel and stock software?

    5. Member WMTJ's Avatar
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      06-20-2006 07:00 AM #110
      Anyone here running this system with SEM? I'm wondering how aggressive people have pushed the timing envelope. If you're turbocharged, are you using it pre-boost to help spool the turbo better with aggressive timing and the additional fuel nessesary? Can this system even be used this way?

    6. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      06-21-2006 09:05 AM #111
      Quote, originally posted by THEERY2.1 »
      Scott,
      Could i run this WAI on my distributer VR6 S/c with 8 psi and be safe using stock fuel and stock software?

      You might be able to get away with this. A 75% proportion of methanol could be used for auxiliary fueling just like a second bank of injectors. The 25% of distilled water would make the stock ignition curve more workable. I'd add the Safe Injection failsafe box and a solenoid to purge boost in case of trouble.

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    7. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      06-21-2006 09:40 AM #112
      Quote, originally posted by WMTJ »
      Anyone here running this system with SEM? I'm wondering how aggressive people have pushed the timing envelope.

      Folks with factory ECUs see their timing retard go to zero. With SEM you could go beyond that. How far you can go would depend on many variables like engine design/spec, boost level, water/alcohol proportions, type of ignition system, etc. There's no one answer to this good question.

      Quote »
      If you're turbocharged, are you using it pre-boost to help spool the turbo better with aggressive timing and the additional fuel nessesary? Can this system even be used this way?

      This is a means of enhancing the octane rating of the intake air/fuel charge. The spray is delivered when combustion begins to become uncontrolled. So, just as with race fuel, it's effects are only realized when the engine needs help controlling detonation. A forced induction engine that detonates before boost has serious tuning or mechanical problems. So, this wouldn't be the cure.

      With that said, there is a way to actually *add* energy rather than just maximize safe release of existing energy. That is to mix a small amount of nitromethane into the spray solution. Does that sound crazy? I don't expect every dubber to run in that direction immediately, but it does work extremely well and folks will wise up in time.

      Fwiw, up until this season most folks were saying that WAI was ridiculous, couldn't work or was unecessary in a superior VW/Audi engine, would cause instant hydrolocking, or was only suitable for Japanese cars. IGNORANCE! Our scene is finally waking up. There's power to unleash and safety to be had!

      Scott F. Williams, Team Director
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    8. Member MKII16v's Avatar
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      07-12-2006 11:53 AM #113
      I installed a WI system on an SRT4 last night. Used a 5gph nozzle a little before the throttle body. This car previously made 402 whp on pump gas running 25 psi from a GT3076R with the ecu pulling 10 degrees of timing. After the install and running 21 psi, the ecu was allowing 29-30 degrees of advance! The car feels much faster with the WI at 21 psi than without at 25. A/f was 11.5:1. This system is just a static system with no flow control. We are going to add a controller and hit the dyno and bring the boost back up to 25 psi. Anyone not running WI is really missing out. I would never build a boosted car without it.

    9. Member scott66's Avatar
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      09-05-2006 11:24 AM #114
      DARN IT, Scott......i was on vacation and didnt see this. is it over? i read on your first post that is said 100% complete, sure hope that isnt true, let me know.
      EE Militia
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    10. Member CA Solt's Avatar
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      09-07-2006 02:17 AM #115
      Yes, I'll be willing to add my name to this GB; or maybe start another round.

    11. 11-29-2006 06:55 PM #116
      is this group buy still alive?

    12. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      11-29-2006 07:11 PM #117
      It isn't, but... keep your eyes open for another. Soonish like.
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    13. Member jmaddocks's Avatar
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      11-30-2006 10:49 PM #118
      Let us know soon, so I can return my kids' Christmas presents...

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      12-03-2006 11:35 AM #119
      question can I put washer fluid in the bootle?

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      12-03-2006 07:30 PM #120
      I am interested

    16. Member Golf_kris's Avatar
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      12-04-2006 12:38 AM #121
      I'm also interested

    17. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      12-04-2006 03:34 PM #122
      Yes, you can use washer fluid. However, I don't recommend it because the dye can clog the holes in the nozzles over time. Also, washer fluid generally contains only about 20% methanol. You'll want closer to 50% for best cooling, octane improvement, and easier tuning. The better bet is to mix your own or buy the "Boost Juice".
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    18. 12-04-2006 04:20 PM #123
      Quote, originally posted by Scott@USRT »
      It isn't, but... keep your eyes open for another. Soonish like.

      2 weeks?

      but in all seriousness, 2 weeks would be perfect


    19. Senior Member TBT-Syncro's Avatar
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      12-11-2006 06:28 PM #124
      Quote, originally posted by Scott@USRT »
      Yes, you can use washer fluid. However, I don't recommend it because the dye can clog the holes in the nozzles over time.

      make sure that if you are using washer fluid, it doesnt contain any glycol.


    20. 12-22-2006 07:50 PM #125
      I have a question...

      I have been researching kits and want to buy one but i have a slight proplem possibly. I want to get a kit and use a MAP controller but do i need a controller with certain voltage capabilities?
      I have a 337 with stage 3+ APR if that makes a difference.
      Another company has 2 controllers for MAP, a 2 bar and a 3 bar and apparently neither is compatible with my MAP as far as they know.
      This poses a problem if i order any kit i am assuming because the controller wont work, correct?

      What are my options? i really dont want to run a MAF controller unless its a last resort just incase the MAF craps out.

      Thanks


    21. 12-25-2006 09:35 PM #126
      just installed...................

    22. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      12-27-2006 05:50 PM #127
      Quote, originally posted by cvisinho »
      I want to get a kit and use a MAP controller but do i need a controller with certain voltage capabilities?.. What are my options?

      That's an excellent question, Chris. I believe the controllers are all equipped with 3bar sensors. We've never run into a situation where the MAP voltage was maxed out. Snow Performance is closed until after New Years, but I will be happy to confirm the max boost pressure once they return.

      Scott F. Williams, Team Director
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    23. 12-27-2006 06:57 PM #128
      cool, thanks scott.

    24. Member FerVR6's Avatar
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      01-02-2007 09:29 PM #129
      Im interested too... make it soon !
      Unitronic Stage 2 | DSG Stage 1 | Forge DV | Koni Coils | 42DD Catch Can | Forge Twintake | Eurojet DP Catless |

    25. 01-05-2007 10:15 AM #130
      Any news? Looking to make a purchase relatively soon

    26. Member AutoCrosser11's Avatar
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      01-16-2007 11:26 AM #131
      any info on the group buy? looking to get WI soon.
      This space for rent

    27. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      01-16-2007 05:03 PM #132
      (sigh) What was supposed to be announced yesterday must wait until tomorrow, guys. We're über busy over here. You'll be taken care of! Promise!!!
      Scott F. Williams, Team Director
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    28. Banned dvlax40's Avatar
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      01-16-2007 08:14 PM #133
      hey i want in lol, ive been talking with jeff about this

    29. 01-18-2007 10:33 AM #134
      ????????????

    30. Member FerVR6's Avatar
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      01-23-2007 10:14 AM #135
      Quote, originally posted by Scott@USRT »
      (sigh) What was supposed to be announced yesterday must wait until tomorrow, guys. We're über busy over here. You'll be taken care of! Promise!!!

      Unitronic Stage 2 | DSG Stage 1 | Forge DV | Koni Coils | 42DD Catch Can | Forge Twintake | Eurojet DP Catless |

    31. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      01-24-2007 01:05 PM #136
      Bring it on, guys. This group buy is finally back from the dead. We had to do a bit of politicking with Snow Performance to get this to happen!

      Scott F. Williams, Team Director
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    32. 01-24-2007 10:19 PM #137
      Quote, originally posted by Scott@USRT »
      Bring it on, guys. This group buy is finally back from the dead. We had to do a bit of politicking with Snow Performance to get this to happen!


      Scott Williams - King of business politics.


    33. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      01-25-2007 02:47 PM #138
      (chuckle)

      Alrighty, it's advice time. As everybody knows, each engine is set up differently, has different detonation characteristics, and thusly needs custom configuration/tuning to achieve maximum output and safety. The first step in WAI tuning is to pick the right spray nozzle flow rate. This previously required a bit of math and advanced tuning knowledge. The good news for our community is that USRT has made this much easier! Determine your optimal water/alcohol flow rate with this nozzle sizing application. This will put you in a ballpark of where you'll finally end up. (Once you get the kit installed and running, you'll need to tweek from there.)

      So, here is how it is done in 3 easy steps. In the example below, we calculate the solution for a 400bhp 1.8T engine with 550cc injectors:


      (Click for bigger image)

      Get started by inputting all the obvious information. The one area where you may not be sure is injector duty cycle (the percentage of time that the injectors are held wide open at maximum engine load). Typically, our high-output engines are tuned for about 80 - 85% maximum duty cycle, so start there unless you know otherwise. Click the top "calculate" button and the program will tell you what your actual flow rate is.


      (Click for bigger image)

      Next, pick the range into which your maximum boost level falls. Your level may be at the very limit (upper or lower) of one of these ranges. So, if you've got a very high-strung turbo that's pumping hot air, choose the next higher boost range. On the other hand, if your engine is equipped with a very efficient charger, then it may make sense to chose the next lower bracket. There is a fudge factor here, so keep that in mind. Leave the pump pressure at 150psi and click the bottom "calculate" button. The program will give you a recommendation at the very bottom.


      (Click for bigger image)

      If the recommended nozzle flow is significantly different than the actual flow, you can adjust pressure (max 180psi) so that the numbers come close to matching. An exact match is not necessary since this is only a ballpark estimation method. You will dial in final flow adjustments via the Stage 2 control unit. Have fun!

      Scott F. Williams, Team Director
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    34. 01-25-2007 06:50 PM #139
      let's get this group buy going already!!!

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      01-26-2007 12:38 AM #140
      i'm down for 2 kits.
      now i'm on a mac so I can't run that app, which means i'm not 100% on nozzle or what else i need but i'm sure we can discuss it when i need to pay.
      also, since i'd be running it every day, i need a larger reservoir.

      but i'm totally down for 2 kits whenever.


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