USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection

[punkrider99]

Quote, originally posted by bad_news »

also, since i'd be running it every day, i need a larger reservoir.

5.5L Euro-spec windshield washer reservoir is 1J0-955-453 L and the plug you'll need is 2D0-955-465 B. I'm running this in my Jetta and I use about a half tank of water/methanol for every tank of gas. Snow Performance also has a 7 qt reservoir available if you want to mount it in your trunk.

[speeding-g60]

hit me for some info on this scott.... please.
i am interested.

HERE ARE THE SPECS OF MY SETUP:

AEB 20V with JBE custom intake, ATP mani (now Treadstone), 3" mustang TB, turbonetics t60-1 HIFI stg 5 turbo. previously ran 4bar fpr on stock rail with RC550 high impedance injectors. haltech e6k standalone.

i have changed it a bit, went deka 750 low impedance injectors, added aeromotive a1000 pump, custom bigger rail, aeromotive 13109 bypass fpr, and fuel cell. using 100 micron filter before pump and 10 micron after pump. the fuel cell has only -8an ports on it.

went -8an to pump, will this be an issue?

and what should i start the fpr pressure at with the new injectors?

what ballpark hp numbers might i expect with this setup? car previously did 302 whp on pump gas @ 18psi, with stock fueling.

thanks for the time and help. also may look into methanol or water injection..... and i will only be running race gas @ 120 or 130....

did i mention in a mk1 gti?

[Scott@USRT]

Quote, originally posted by speeding-g60 »

hit me for some info on this scott.... please. i am interested.

Well, I did respond to your post in the fueling thread.

Quote »

did i mention in a mk1 gti?

That is good to hear. All hail the almighty A1 chassis!

[speeding-g60]

yeah, i posted there first.... anyways, this group buy still back on? if so i am interested.... tell me what i need to do. and after the snow kit, will the car need to be re-tuned and dyno'ed?

i would need the MAP kit, and you have my info, which injectors should i use? looking to run 1/4 mile, race gas (120 or 130), around 24lbs or more boost. high hp is the goal.... thanks


Modified by speeding-g60 at 3:42 PM 1-29-2007

[Scott@USRT]

Quote, originally posted by speeding-g60 »

anyways, this group buy still back on?

Yes, read the first page and follow all the directions.

Quote »

after the snow kit, will the car need to be re-tuned and dyno'ed?

Once you add the WAI kit, you'll have radically increased your engine's power-making capabilty. So, you can throw on a smaller pulley and add boost without fear. If nothing else, your ECU will simply add timing which will add to your torque and sharpen your throttle response.

Quote »

which injectors should i use? looking to run 1/4 mile, race gas (120 or 130), around 24lbs or more boost. high hp is the goal.... thanks

That 24lbs of boost pressure is a result of intake restriction. Give me a power target, though, and I'll let you know what size injectors you need to hit it. As I mentioned in the other thread, your 750cc injectors are enough for 500whp or so. How much power do you want to produce? Also, let's keep this thread on topic (that is, about water/alcohol injection) and do the fuel injection tech in the other one.

[speeding-g60]

ok.... i'll go back to other for injectors.... but what smaller pulley? turbo has no pulley???

directions on first page to follow.... thanks

[Scott@USRT]

Quote, originally posted by speeding-g60 »

ok.... i'll go back to other for injectors.... but what smaller pulley? turbo has no pulley???

Sorry, I was thinking you had a supercharger. Non-intercooled guys with superchargers love WAI because they get to drop their intake temps so substantially, but without the expense of the IC. Meanwhile, turbo people make out like bandits because they can turn up the boost to a point where the WAI is needed to control detonation. Either way, you're flyin'.

[speeding-g60]

hmmmm, i can buy two? i do have a mk3 vr6 gti with vortech v1 s-trim blower on it, non intercooled..... now i am thinking again.....

[speeding-g60]

is there a certain distance max you can run the reservoir - to pump - to intake tract? i am lookin at not much more room underthere, close to where this would need to go..... maybe reservoir in car, and pump under hood?

[speeding-g60]

ok, so after being on the phone with scott for more than a half hour, i bought mine, but a different twist. based on his recommendations, and my hardware setup, i went stage 1 with safe injection box, and i need to source an unavailable-to-usrt part elsewhere. he also gave me where i need to go to get that last part. extremely helpful, does not mind spending the time to help anyone out that has questions about their setups, etc.

[spooln6]

any sc guys have this on their car

[speeding-g60]

call scott and talk to him about it..... the shop number is on the first page. he is a great guy to deal with.....

[FerVR6]

I will soon..............

[Scott@USRT]

Hey, thanks for the compliments and support, speeding-g60! We aim to please.

Quote, originally posted by spooln6 »

any sc guys have this on their car

One of the most popular VW applications ever has been the Neuspeed SC for the 4cylinder cars. Those guys don't have intercoolers, so the intake temperature drops are a blessing. There are also chaps out there with C2 and VF kits. The benefits for a supercharged engine are exactly the same as turbo, nitrous, or highly-tuned NA. Just do yourself a favor and inject the water after the charger itself. If you spray before, you'll wear the teflon coating off the compressor lobes/blades. In all applications, the spray should also be introduced after the intercooler.

[spooln6]

ok you got my order i will be calling you next Thursday for my order do i drill and tap my tb for the nozzel and what one would you think i need?

[Scott@USRT]

Quote, originally posted by spooln6 »

ok you got my order i will be calling you next Thursday for my order do i drill and tap my tb for the nozzel and what one would you think i need?

You can certainly tap and mount in the TB, but then most of the fluid will evaporate in the combustion chamber versus the intake tract. So, you will primarily get anti-detonation improvements versus intake cooling. On the other hand, if you mount the nozzle very far away from the TB, you will get more air temp cooling and less detonation protection. So, placement is a strategic decision.

Generally speaking, I recommend placing your nozzle in the intake pipe just after the intercooler. Or, if you don't have an IC, then place it in the intake pipe after the charger. It is best that the nozzle is not placed in the middle of a sharply curved section. A solenoid must be used if your mounting spot is behind the throttle plate or if it is below the fluid reservoir.

As for the nozzle size, please follow the instructions on the 4th page of this thread. If you need help with that, I'll be happy to guide you. However, I'll need a description of your set up.

[speeding-g60]

$$$ sent for solenoid....thanks for the help once again.

[dragonfli_x]

whoo-hooo... me tooo

[speeding-g60]

that makes 5, we should be shipping soon

[20aeman]

Just have a quick question. I'm running a chip and turboback, the next logical step for me would be a larger intercooler. Would it be a smart idea on my part to stick with the stock setup and run your kit? I don't want to play with timing or boost, I just want a cooler intake charge and to not pull timing. Would the kit be more effective than a larger intercooler? I've heard that timing is still pulled on FMICs at my level of tuning, so maybe this would be more effective... Either way, your kit + vag com would still end up being cheaper than an intercooler.


Modified by 20aeman at 2:08 AM 2-6-2007

[Scott@USRT]

Thanks for the positive support guys. The first batch of five kits will ship to USRT today/tomorrow. Then, they'll ship to y'all immediately thereafter.

Quote, originally posted by 20aeman »

I don't want to play with timing or boost, I just want a cooler intake charge and to not pull timing. Would the kit be more effective than a larger intercooler? I've heard that timing is still pulled on FMICs at my level of tuning, so maybe this would be more effective... Either way, your kit + vag com would still end up being cheaper than an intercooler.

To *maximize* your return on investment, you'll want to push your engine harder. However, if the ECU is already retarding timing, then you'll absolutely net positive gains with this system. Expect your timing to go to full advance even at maximum boost. The result will be a substantial increase in torque and quicker response. For sure, the WAI system will drop your intake temps far more than a FMIC ever can. I've never seen an intercooler drop temps below 0degF before!

Water/alcohol injection has been around since World War II. We rally guys have relied on it for decades. However, in the VW/Audi tuning world, it is still one of those "undiscovered" technologies out there that nets radical performance (and safety) gains. So few people are familiar with its characteristics, that the guy who uses it has an unbeatable advantage. Look at Mike Savko who made 258whp and 322wtq with his STOCK K03 turbo on pump fuel! The paradigm has shifted. The bar has been raised. Non-believers will be left choking on extra-humid exhaust vapors.

[speeding-g60]

i got one coming, and to think my round of questions with scott started by talking about injectors..... eventually led me here. he can answer almost any question you have for him on this subject, very informatively. and does not mind spending the time to help you out. give him a shout, he'll help you out. even if it ends up that you gain knowledge on this or another subject. he is the type of person that will tell you not to go a certain route even if it means a no-sale for him.

cant wait for this to get here..... actually cant wait to run a 10.xx in my rabbit......

[theAntiRiced]

Purchased the Stage II MAF kit. I'll be running two injectors on my stock turbo.

[kindbudz91G60]

Just spent 35 min on the phone with Scott talking about goodies. I'm getting the Stage II MAP setup for my 16VG60. Also, bought the anti-siphoning solenoid so I can mount it right in the intake manifold. Hoping to run 10.5:1 comp. with small pulley on the charger...

Serious BUMP to Scott for answering all my questions and being helpful. Looking forward to my package arriving.

[speeding-g60]

Quote, originally posted by kindbudz91G60 »

Serious BUMP to Scott for answering all my questions and being helpful.

so far, i have at least 2 hours of scotts time in question answering, and i am not sure i am done.... (sorry scott, and thanks!!!)

[VR6rocks]

Hey Scott, any chances of extending the group buy for a few more days?
I want to place the order but still have a few more questions that I sent you by e-mail.

And here's a big for being very very helpful!

[dragonfli_x]

so... like... umm... when's the first batch coming thru? T-boy's getting antsy

[Scott@USRT]

Quote, originally posted by dragonfli_x »

so... like... umm... when's the first batch coming thru? T-boy's getting antsy

Thanks for keeping your sense of humor. Shipping was delayed a bit on Snow's end. Almost all the kits ordered are going out at once, though. Also, you're all getting the new-spec 180psi pumps instead of the old 150psi units. Here's the UPS tracking number of the big package coming to USRT: 1Z9V2500344352886. Once we get the kits here, they'll be shipped out immediately. Thanks, guys.

[speeding-g60]

i guess waiting for the delay did us right by the better pump..... cool.

[Scott@USRT]

(sigh) I'll get the proper tracking number together on Monday, then. It's always something. Meh...

[theswoleguy]

Quote, originally posted by Scott@USRT »

You can certainly tap and mount in the TB, but then most of the fluid will evaporate in the combustion chamber versus the intake tract. So, you will primarily get anti-detonation improvements versus intake cooling. On the other hand, if you mount the nozzle very far away from the TB, you will get more air temp cooling and less detonation protection. So, placement is a strategic decision.

Scott i have a question for ya... In one of your comments you talked about strategic placement of the nozzle for either A) anti det suppression or B) super cooling effect. What if someone ran dual nozzles?

Pre TB/Post IC a decent distance to COOL the air
and
Dead in front/post TB (aka your nozzle plate soon to be released) for anti det suppression?

Of course this would require some test n tune and different nozzle size selection im sure.

Edit for the quote...


Modified by theswoleguy at 6:51 PM 2-17-2007

[theAntiRiced]

Quote, originally posted by theswoleguy »

Scott i have a question for ya... In one of your comments you talked about strategic placement of the nozzle for either A) anti det suppression or B) super cooling effect. What if someone ran dual nozzles? Pre TB/Post IC a decent distance to COOL the air and Dead in front/post TB (aka your nozzle plate soon to be released) for anti det suppression? Of course this would require some test n tune and different nozzle size selection im sure.

It is possible. Running two nozzles requires another part. I'll be doing this once they come out with the TB spacer; 150 pre-tb and a 60 just after. I'll be dyno tuning, vag-logging, and V-Tuning to get the timing and spray just right.

[VR6rocks]

Hey Scott, have you received my e-mail?
I know I know, you must be very busy ... sorry couldn't resist checking

[dragonfli_x]

Quote, originally posted by theswoleguy »

Scott i have a question for ya... In one of your comments you talked about strategic placement of the nozzle for either A) anti det suppression or B) super cooling effect. What if someone ran dual nozzles? Pre TB/Post IC a decent distance to COOL the air and Dead in front/post TB (aka your nozzle plate soon to be released) for anti det suppression? Of course this would require some test n tune and different nozzle size selection im sure. Edit for the quote... Modified by theswoleguy at 6:51 PM 2-17-2007

that's a good question! it seems as though that if one were to use the dual nozzle setup you can obtain the best of both worlds by getting lower intake temps and higher octane by using two different sized nozzles... i forget though if the larger nozzle would be further and the smaller being closer to the TB... scott will correct and/or elaborate... pretty sure T-boy's got some answers too

[speeding-g60]

dont you have to have a different mixture of water vs methanol to affect that also??? just a thought....